I Do Not Allow a Woman

John MacArthur is spot-on with his gracious approach to the godly role and high-calling of women within the church. Far too many women are violating the Scriptures because of either a misunderstanding of the Word of God, or because of a deliberate rebellion against God’s sovereign purposes for the Bride of Jesus Christ. When you start violating God’s clear commands, it is so easy to then start diverting down other paths to the point where you will hold to and even teach heresy like Joyce Meyers and Beth Moore have done.

42 thoughts on “I Do Not Allow a Woman

  1. I sent an article by Mac on this topic to a friend of mine (best man in my wedding, room-mate in college, good friends for 30 years), he is a methodist and had a woman “pastor”. He took offense and disregarded the teaching from Scripture and told me God called female pastors becaseu he knew of some that were good at it. And there you go – experience based religion will ALWAYS lead one astray from the pure milk of God’s Word.

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  2. Maria, excellent question. I believe when we speak about blogging, we would have to include the writing of books as well. If one is wrong, the other would be as well. The issue contains several factors. Is the writer under the authority of a local congregation to give accountability and Biblical guidance? What is the purpose of writing? I believe there is a huge difference between writing words of poems or songs or even encouragement versus writing with the intention of going down the path that MacArthur mentions whereby a woman is deliberately attempting to usurp authority or denigrate the divine order God has established in home and church. Most blogs that I have read written by women do not attempt to do that but serve as encouragement or as a teaching aid to fellow Christian ladies. If a man chooses to read, that is a decision he is responsible for and I do not find blame on the part of the writer. Does this answer or do you have more questions?

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  3. I do have more questions, Mark. But first, thank you for your kindness in answering. After formulating my questions, may I comment again, and when you have time, could you answer frankly? I don’t want to displease the Lord and waste my time if I’m blogging in a way that is transgression of His will.

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  4. God is immutable. His truths and proclamations are immutable. In the last chapter of Job, God speaks to Eliphaz. Twice He says to Eliphaz, ” My wrath is kindled against you for you have spoken falsely about Me”. In Jer. 23:23 the theme is repeated. In Matt. 7:21 Jesus continues this serious and dire warning. God sees our hearts and our actions.
    Women pastors by their deeds in essence are speaking falsely merely by disregarding and or twisting Gods word on the matter.

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  5. In general, I’d concur with Mark’s comments here on women blogging.

    Titus 2 clearly endorses women teaching other women, though the areas of instruction mentioned are narrower than that to which most women bloggers confine themselves. Paul did not, however, say that instruction could only include the areas he’s mentioned. If a woman blogger wanted to be very sure, she could confine herself to those areas. I see no reason for such a restriction being necessary.

    I see a clear prohibition of women teaching in the church (I Timothy 2), but we see an apparent commendation of Priscilla’s teaching of Apollos — outwith the church. Without spending much detail on it, Acts is not normative (telling us what we should do) but descriptive (telling us what happened). Nevertheless, it is inspired, and if it commends Priscilla’s teaching of Apollos, that commendation is inspired as well.

    But that teaching did not take place within the church, and there was an authority over Priscilla present (her husband). Priscilla’s name is often mentioned first, which could tell us that she perhaps had greater Scriptural knowledge and/or skill and so did most of the teaching. But that is speculation, and it does not change the fact of her being under her husband’s authority, nor the fact that this is not within the church. Priscila’s case appears to me to indicate women can teach men outside the church and under the authority of a husband, but it would be hard to prove that it goes beyond that, in light of I Timothy 2.

    So perhaps a woman blogging is comparable to Priscilla / Apollos even if the readers include men. If the blogger is under authority, if what she writes is being reviewed by her husband or a pastor, I don’t see an issue. This is not like teaching in a church, which is “in real time” — on a blog, what is written can be checked / modified. Again, if someone wanted to be really sure, she could ask her husband / pastor to review her articles before posting, but I doubt this is really necessary. One woman blogger completely pulled a post after I questioned a portion of it, and has been very clear she welcomes such feedback from a pastor. Perhaps some men could adopt some of that humility….

    Another Scriptural factor — I Corinthians 11 says a woman demonstrably / visibly under authority could prophesy in the church. Prophesying, of course, is not teaching, but is simply serving as a mouthpiece conveying the very words of God, and prophets were to have their message tested (I Corinthians 14). Perhaps this sheds light on I Timothy 2, and tells us Paul’s concern with women teaching is not the sound of their voice :), nor even with them carrying an authoritative message (prophecy is even more authoritative than teaching), but with those who are more vulnerable to deception bringing a message of their own composition.

    Thus, some women Christian bloggers mostly just use things written by others, searching through good authors and reporting excerpts. That way, they aren’t doing the teaching, they are just mouthpieces, not of inspired messages like a woman prophesying in Corinth, but of good sound teaching which they are just reporting / spreading. I would not say the Scriptures require a woman to confine herself to this kind of blogging, either, but if she wants to be careful, this is an option.

    In general, I believe that I Timothy 2 is restricting behaviour in the church, but even in that context I believe it should be understood in light of I Corinthians 11, which allows women to pray or prophesy under authority. I believe the same clearly applies to singing — women can also sing in the church (though since we are told singing is for teaching, I do not believe women should sing songs which have not been previously approved by someone in authority). But these restrictions are all about the church, and blogging is not done in the church.

    I see no reason why we cannot sing songs/hymns written by a woman, as long as they have been checked / approved by proper Biblical leadership in the church. If we can sing songs that a woman has written, I would presume we can read blog posts that they have written as well, and profit thereby. I have linked to blog posts written by women, I have read profitable books written by women, and I see nothing in I Timothy 2 or I Corinthians, if we understand them properly, to cause me to change my behaviour.

    In short, I am quite comfortable with women blogging to an audience including men, but I would definitely advocate she do so under the authority of her husband or pastor, and be very ready to modify or remove articles in response to that authority. I would say that in addition, if she wants to be very careful, she could confine herself to the areas discussed for women teaching in Titus 2, or confine herself to giving teaching from sound writers, or seek pre-publication approval from husband/pastor of her articles. I do not think any of those three additional restrictions are necessary, but I am always enthusiastic about believers restricting ourselves when we have any doubts about whether what we are doing is Biblical, at least until the doubts are resolved.

    As usual with my comments, this is probably too long. πŸ™‚ But I hope it is of some profit.

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  6. Can women lead worship, having musical gifts, provided she is under authority?

    Iconoclast=destroyer of graven images and religious traditions…hmmm!

    I like that picture Maria a gentle destroyer of graven images and traditions! πŸ™‚

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  7. Words mean things. I scanned all of the WORSHIP verses in my concordance. None seemed to indicate anything about music. Did the Magi break out in song before the manger? The entire church service is the act of worshipping God, not just the singing. Is the choir director now the worship director? Thou shalt not sing before other gods, begins to look less serious. Losing the language through equivocation sows seeds of confusion leading to deception. The act of singing is a minor issue but the act of equivocation of God breathed words is not.

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  8. TI you are right regarding worship. I merely used the “term and title” applied by “jesus franchises” to their music maven. Here are a few more confusing titles/practices.

    1. Sanctuary. Who, rather than what is the sanctuary…It ain’t the building.
    2. Preacher. Elders are to teach the youngers. Preaching is to the lost and dying outside the sanctuary…err…meeting place of the saints.
    3. Anointed. The title “The Christ” means the Anointed One, thus the rest are false anointed ones and lamp oil salesmen.

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  9. “Covering” is another one of those words. The only “covering” in the New Covenant is a woman’s head covering. We are to be clothed in Christ. The covering teaching is another’s system akin to the deeds of the Nicolaitan’s. How about the “tithe?” Show me that in the New Covenant! Even the word “church” was an addition. Ekklesia is a called out body of people, the closest thing to church would be a building, wherein Jesus knocks at the door because for the most part He is on the outside…hmmm

    Another would be baptized. John baptized with water, Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit!
    Man continues the water baptism, provided you enter his building. Clergy/Laity control. Kind of tough to emulate a Holy Spirit Baptism, but yet some do try anyways don’t they! (Water baptism does have it’s place as a public testimony, yet there are those who would insist without baptism, a man is not “saved.”) I could even make the case for saved making the list…

    A body of believers/lively stones formed and fitted together with Jesus as the Head/Chief/Corner Stone, verses a building with a pyramid hierarchy that laity must go to and follow the traditions of the franchise. Luther, I think it was, who wrote of seeing a painting in the church of his childhood observed a boat full of clergy and a sea filled with drowning laity. His decision was to make sure he became clergy and be in the ship. What a picture of the church of Rome…and her daughters!

    But back to the original question, can women lead the singing in the fellowship of the saints?
    πŸ™‚

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  10. Mickey, that is a good question. How about them Royals?

    Just kidding! πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

    There are several factors to consider. I believe the direction of every aspect of worship should fall under the responsibility of the elders. I have been in far too many churches where the elders were distant at best when it came to the music selection, the type of instruments being played, and even what would be accepted from the front. There should also be reverence in every thing that is done. While I see nothing wrong with a Christian sister leading with a strong voice that helps direct the music, I do not see the benefit of allowing her to say what she wants when she wants and perform her own little stageshow. Again, the videos are plenty where a woman will be leading but the music seems to be a small part of what she is doing. Often she will preach her own little sermonette, pray a few times, invoke the Holy Spirit to come down, etc., etc. We have been in some Christian assemblies where a lady would lead off each hymn or song and was able to carry the tune through. This was and can be very helpful, but to allow free rein amongst the congregation would not be profitable.

    Does this answer your question or did you have something more specific in mind?

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  11. All good brother! (I thought the Cubs would be playing KC, LOL but what do I know?)

    My bride does sing and has done both solo and choir work. In college she traveled for Liberty Univ. in these capacities. With regards to her speaking along with her singing, she has done both.

    Watching her seek the Lord as to what she should sing and at times what she should say have been amazing. When given the freedom to do so, outside knowing the topic of the sermon, her song selections have been spot on with the sermons! Yet she has no problem with pastoral/ elder direction either. We have been out to stores or restaurants and had folks we don’t even know come up to us and thank her for a song or a testimony she gave during a service and tell how their lives have been changed from a timely word from God through her. Some were from over 10 years ago! I dare say that the majority of sermons preached are forgotten even before the car is started in the parking lot after the service… She regularly gets calls from folks who say that their deceased relative had written her name and number down in their funeral plans and that she would pick out the right songs to sing or they have specific ones they heard her sing in the past.

    This weekend she will be traveling 8 hours to both sing and give testimony at a women’s event south of Chicago. This is a short notice thing for her, and so she immediately went to prayer in preparation.

    In our current fellowship she has sung a time or two and given testimony as to the Lord’s working in her to the appreciation of both the men and women. These are of the same belief as you communicated with regards to the woman’s role, and we are not at all adverse to it. However, in this fellowship there are several women who are quite capable of ministering in music and only one man. (It sure isn’t me! LOL) and yet the group struggles in allowing the sharing of gifts due to past religious traditions. But they are coming around! Properly done, under the direction of the elder (who can’t sing and can’t really lead the music) these women will become a tremendous blessing to the fellowship.

    Women struggle as to how they might serve in fellowships, and find the constraints in traditions difficult. Fellowships suffer when those who are gifted can’t be used in their gifts. That being said, I find no comparison between these women’s desires to serve the Lord, and the usurping of authority by those like Beth Moore and Joyce Myers. The usurping of authority is not gender specific either. Diotrophese was a man for example. The question always comes down to a surrendered to Christ spirit in the individual.

    I am thankful for Paul’s setting things in proper order, for Corinthians isn’t a how to manual, but a rebuke and correction! Also, it appears to me that godly women actually appreciate godly instruction and godly order. I just see and perhaps they do too, that some parts of scripture are more dogmatically enforced than are others. And that to the detriment of the assembly.

    I appreciate you brother, as well as the other men, and women who contribute here at Def Con!

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  12. Mickey, thank you for your thoughtful reply and your words of encouragement. I hope that my words do not come across as though I am a slave to any traditions because that is not what I desire. I believe firmly that women have various roles they can play in the ministering of their God-given gifts to their local assemblies, but I think the question is how can this be done in ways that do not undermine God’s divine order for the family and church.

    The key to your comments I believe is found in this statement, “The question always comes down to a surrendered to Christ spirit in the individual.” — Amen and amen!

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  13. Mickey,

    You bring up some valid points about traditions of men. I am convinced that we have come a very, VERY long way from what the early New Testament assemblies actually looked like.

    Yes, there are definite problems as you have mentioned. 1. Head covering (tradition), 2. Tithe (tradition), 3. Order of worship service (tradition), 4) Clergy/laity distinctions (tradition), etc.

    How do we remove these though in our midst? The answer is not an easy one and is compounded when you have “clergy” who feel they owe an allegiance to the schools or seminaries in which they were trained. If you are a “Baptist”, then you are expected (no, demanded of) that you do Baptist-y type things. If you are from a Presbyterian training background, then you “MUST” do things the way R.C. Sproul or D. James Kennedy does or did them. The list goes on. Denominationalism and adherence to all that it has become is dangerous and is a slippery slope that profits few. Assemblies often forget that we are not called to go out and make more Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, or Congregationalists. We are called to go and make disciples and that means we teach what Christ commands us to teach not based on some sign or banner we have hanging on the wall that means nothing to very few.

    I have no doubt that you can walk into the average gathering of believers, blindfold the lot of them, take them out and put them in another similar church with a different name, and the overwhelming majority would have absolutely NO CLUE as to what the biblical differences are between the two of them. However, let there be no doubt that they would quickly have no problems (because of the position of the pastor) in pointing out the heresy of the wrong hymnbook, or the invalidity of the so-called per-versions that are not KJV, or that the music leader is a woman, or that fill-in-the-blank. And we wonder why the world sits back and scratches their heads trying to figure out what exactly it is that makes us different.

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  14. No, brother we are on the exact same page I think. I don’t see you as being a slave to traditions, though I think we all have to examine ourselves as the bible says to make sure we are walking in the faith once given, rather than following the traditions of men that make His Word of no effect. Paul counted everything in his past as dung in comparison to apprehending Christ Jesus.

    I have been preparing a contrast between these things as the Lord leads. When I am finished with it (only the Lord knows when) perhaps I can forward it to you and company for review/critique?

    As a hint. Scripture talks about there being an end time famine of the Word, and also the gathering after those who would tickle itchy ears. Paul also referred to 10,000 teachers.
    These all clearly I think, point to folks reading everything but scripture for their teaching. This must happen for there to be so many false christs’ I believe.

    Even in more conservative circles, we see Calvin and Bunyan and Spurgeon and Mac Arthur quoted as much if not more than Christ and His Apostles today. When you add to that hybrid bibles that place commentary next to text (yes, my Geneva Bible does too) plus all the websites and media ministries…It is my belief that the opinions of fallible men have been elevated above His Word as gospel! Thus we have 10,000 teachers, many false christs and tickled ears…particularly in and through academia and it’s official endorsement letters of accommodation such that we may well be looking at the picture Christ drew of men who climb up some other way. In context He called them hirelings among other titles.

    OK that wasn’t just a hint, but a synopsis. πŸ™‚

    Anyways…

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  15. I guess we are typing and crossing in the cloud! LOL

    The chief reason we travel 90 miles round trip each Sunday, aside from the Lord directing us there, is because these Baptisty folks we fellowship with are seeing the issue denominationalism even though Babylon takes longer to come out of us then we from it! LOL
    They didn’t know what to think or trust from us AOG folks, even though we told them we left there nearly a decade earlier after continually standing against error while there! What confused them most was how we walked by the Holy Spirit and had a strong or stronger understanding of the Word than they had! Further, we were more vocal critics of the wicked and perverse generation we left who were always seeking after a sign and wonder! Their hang up was their neutered understanding of the Holy Spirit, His undiminished power and His Purpose! We were an iconoclast (thanks Maria!) that they could not initially wrap their heads around. Then you add the occurrences of things that happened which seem to FOLLOW them that believe and WOW! For example, when the men would meet they would ask, “How can we grow this fellowship?” To which I replied, “It isn’t your fellowship to grow! Jesus alone builds His Ekklesia. Teach the Word in context as you are lead by the Holy Spirit, and allow Him to add to us. But understand too that we don’t fit together naturally that is why He forms and fits us together.”

    Well, within weeks families just start showing up! In fact, 2 families showed up from miles away in opposite directions on back to back weeks where the wives were college roommates and who had not seen or talked to one another in a couple of decades! Anyone care to rationalize that incident away as a coincident? I’m pretty sure they, like me weren’t serving the Lord back in our 1980’s college days either!

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  16. Oh, and each of those family’s came from non-Baptist and non-AOG backgrounds! And they continue to return each Sunday as the Lord continues to chip away/decrease us while forming and fitting us together as He builds His Lively Stones!

    We are currently meeting in a Township building with no “church” name and a cost of $15 per week. We have no professional paid clergy though every man there were former elders ushers and teachers in prior churches, and we have no offering plate! Yet all needs are met within and several needs brought forth outside our fellowship have been met as well! People arrive early, stay later, meet during the week from home to home for added fellowship and also socialization and behave more like a functional family than a jesus franchise.

    I would say, “To God be the Glory!” But it’s always been Him and His, for He is the one who caused the original families to be given the left foot of fellowship from their prior church!

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  17. Why were they forced out? Meeting as friends outside of sanctioned services and having the gall to enjoy singing, praying, studying and sharing together…a direct threat to their Purpose Driven pastors! Yes God does knock on the church door and say come out and fellowship with Him, and He called them out for His Good Pleasure! They used to be bitter, till healing came to them as we pointed out we too were not welcome back in the day, yet the Lord orchestrates these things as He is Sovereign! Forgiveness Happens!

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  18. yes, you guys are funny!
    But seriously, I want to send my husband a link to the post so he can read the comments. (To be honest I’m not that fond of MacArthur who scares me a bit even when he’s making sense.) We have many questions with our own local fellowship. 501(c)3 produces churches that are strangely part of the world because linked to it through methods. I used to help my elderly Mother work in her RCC parish office keeping records of giving from their offering envelopes. We too have offering envelopes at our independent Baptist church! This system allows people to give non-sacrificially because the record of giving will earn them a break at tax time. This is opposite from David’s desire, when he said he wouldn’t give the Lord something that cost him nothing. There are a lot of things like this – manmade ideas that are an affront to God’s Word.
    Is it okay that I talk?

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  19. Oh boy did I get you boys going!

    Talk all you want sister! Just remember it is in the cloud forever! LOL But don’t worry, they will come after me long before you, and Manfred will be long gone by then too!

    Johnny Mac is OK and not quite up to the level of a heretic, even though he did say a person could take the mark of the beast and still be saved…That’s one more problem with the pre trib. rapture theory thanks to Darby (and some Scottish lady that heard from a familiar spirit) and of course Cyrus Scofield’s gap theory bible commentary (see his take on Genesis 1 and 2 for details).

    There, that should bring some straight fire!

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  20. I come from an IFB background myself, sister, and there are many things done for expediency sake and not because of Scripture. Offerings are generally collected because the congregation is constantly being placed under obligation or guilt trips to give, give, give.

    Our little gathering is not 501c3 nor will we claim to be tax exempt. Government has no business controlling our gathering. Those days will come soon enough.

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  21. LOL @ Mark

    How’s this for traditions. John was an immerser or baptizer, not a Baptist. In fact he was born, lived and was beheaded as a Jew. One could argue either way whether the New Covenant applied to him! If so, he was a free range pre-denominational Christian…like me!

    Now free range doesn’t mean on our own, as we have a Wonderful Shepherd to follow and Who keeps us in the palm of His Hand. It just means free from the constraints of men’s religion!

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