21 Comments

The Mormon Moment? Religious Conviction and the 2012 Election

To vote or not to vote…that is the question. At least it has been the question at Defending. Contending. for many months now. We have all discussed whether a Christian should or can vote for a Mormon candidate…or if we should or can vote for a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage candidate, or if we should just stay home and not vote at all. Previous articles: Mormon President?, Vote for Mormon?

I don’t have a solution for the good readers of DefCon, as this is split along many different lines of conviction. However, I do offer this interesting video of a round table discussion at Southern Seminary this week. The title tells the story:

“The Mormon Moment? Religious Conviction and the 2012 Election”

The roundtable discussion features Albert Mohler, Russell Moore, Greg Gilbert, and Mark Coppenger. This video contributes to the conversation and helps each of us think through the issue from several angles. The panel discusses what Mormonism is, where they have appeal to our society, how it is a false gospel, and what impact a Mormon President of the USA might have on the world stage.

 

(you may have to press “play” twice)

**** This video is in no way an endorsement for either candidate or an endorsement for not voting, but a contribution to the discussion.****

Southern Seminary Resources Website

Panel Discussion MP3 Download

About abidingthroughgrace

Married with kids, work as CEO of Engineering Firm, I am Reformed in faith and Baptistic in flavor, I hold to the 5 Solas, TULIP, and currently studying Systematic and Practical Theology at Reformed Baptist Seminary.

21 comments on “The Mormon Moment? Religious Conviction and the 2012 Election

  1. I don’t see it as much of an issue. The theology of each candidate is repugnant and damnable – but our vote is for an earthly political office. Far less important than who we support in our churches. This is where pragmatism may have a place – which reprobate will put fewer sewer rats in the courts? Which would grow the government faster? Both parties are dead wrong on so many temporal issues, it really is only a matter of the speed at which the country dies.

  2. This was a good discussion; well rounded as well as balanced!

    ATG, you wrote in the post “Should a Christian vote for Mitt Romney?” these words;
    “I would argue that having a Mormon president would be far better than a socialist/liberal who will act to increase abortions and legalize gay marriage. Which is more important for eternity?”
    I appreciate those words and feel if the above can be minimized at the ballot box, my vote wouldn’t go to waste as opposed to not voting at all or for a third party!! John Mc Cain clamed to be a Christian (I have my very serious doubts) and I voted for him because he was first Pro life and second, I kinda liked his plan for business and taxes! Baptist, Catholic or any other so called Christian presidents of the past seemingly make little difference; the pope didn’t take over the world when JFK was Prez nor do I think the Morman church will do likewise! Last time I checked, God was on the throne!
    Since I’m on the quote kick, let me add one by Manfred from the same post;
    “So let us embrace the tension – uphold our civic duty and vote as informed citizens yet put our hope and confidence in Christ alone.”
    I think that’s a good note to end on!

  3. Rev –

    Thanks. There has been an odd dynamic for many years now regarding the “Mormon” candidate. I think someone said in the discussion above that “we aren’t electing a pastor, but a president.” This is a huge distinction. I know there are tons of people that believe Romney is not actually pro-life…and that is a concern. However, at this point there is a clear difference in the words they speak (possibly meaningless) on protecting babies and protecting marriage.

    In the end, can we vote for a Mormon as a Christian? Well, we have voted for unbelievers in the past, why is this any different? I believe we have a duty as Christians in this time and this country – the time and country God sovereignty chose to create us in – to work towards or principals. Not everything happens immediately. Slow change away from God’s principals will require slow change back. Can we even influence change towards God? I have my doubts. I often wonder if we are actually heading towards Babylon…Christians in captivity. Joseph’s decedents in Egypt were not slaves overnight, it took time. Maybe God’s people will end up as slaves in this country for His grand and glorious purposes.

    Either way, Christ is on the throne. Let us hope in Him alone as we navigate the world as Ambassadors from Heaven on the mission of reconciliation.

    In Christ Alone,
    atg

  4. Here are the choices for president boiled down:

    Re-elect a Muslim Marxist Socialist, or elect a Mormon Fabian Socialist.

    If you don’t know what the difference is between a Marxist Socialist and a Fabian Socialist is, I will make it simple for you. A Marxist brings change through Revolution, and A Fabian brings change by Evolution, ie boil the frog slowly and it doesn’t fight you. The Bush’s, Clinton’s and their ilk are Fabians.

    You can’t have a Sunday School world view on Sunday, and a different one for the rest of the week. Which is how the majority of “christians in Amerika” live. By the way, the majority of American Academia follow huministic models of social change, which is Fabian…And here is the dirty little secret! Most preachers are Academians, and are to some degree influenced by the Fabian mindset. This is precisely why the “churches” are more interested in social change and starting NGO’s under their 501 (c)(3) corporations! The NGO’s are another income stream, which is a bonus.

    Beyond all that above, the October Suprise has already started. As embassies and Amerikan assets around the world are attacked, “We can’t change leadership in a time of such turmoil!!!” And also, “Romney is a christian! He can’t negotiate fairly with these people, we need the world citizen, the world president to settle the issue! He can handle the Jews, Christians and Muslims because of his unique upbringing!”

    Here you go folks, “Out of crisis comes change!” Oh and that change will lead to the patience and perservering of the saints!!! Unlesss you are asleep at the station waiting for the hallajulah train to whisk you away before things get too bad…In that case, sorry to disturb you slumber…

  5. Is in it wonderful when we can justify voting for someone who believes that God was once human, and has a female partner and we’re all decendents, that Jesus is not perfect and that he’s moving toward deity, that the trinity is not true and the Gospel is incomplete, and Jesus came to the United States “literally”…

  6. NOW is the time to vote Jesus as Lord in your own life, get the gospel right and take Him to the streets! We are the preachers who go out! The elders are to accurately teach the preachers to go out and spread the Good News, allowing the Holy Spirit to make new disciples then bring them back to the Ekklesia to be discipled so they too can join the campaign! This abomination called “church” and “mega church” has the world coming in to the fellowship of the called out in Christ and allowing them to make a decision to join the church which is the very tares being sown in with the wheat!!! That is satanic for we who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
    Let’s get the only Election that matters back where it belongs!!!

  7. David, have you ever voted before for any political office?

  8. For David, and for the rest of you. Perhaps from this letter, allegedly from a Wall St. insider can help you understand how late in the game this is.

    My Friend,

    You receive this message as you likely look over the latest reports coming from the crisis that is now truly engulfing the Middle East. What symbolism to be found in such tragic events for America taking place yesterday, September 11th? As we all remember with a mixture of sadness, horror , and righteous anger those events of 2001, we are then greeted with yet more tragedy yesterday from the very same hatred that flew those planes into those buildings not so long ago.

    And as you so rightly put it yourself, the man calling himself Obama has indeed built this crisis. Built it with his own arrogance, his own ignorance, and his own evil intent to destroy America as it exists and replace it with something far less strong, far less capable, and far more prone to defeat.

    Many months ago I shared with you information pertaining to a growing rift between Israel and the Obama government. It was a rift born directly from the anti-Jewish policies of those closest to the false president. A manifestation of biases found deeply rooted in such figures as Valerie Jarrett, a figure our mutual friend has of course spoken of often and with such frightening accuracy. She, Iranian-born, who long ago embraced the patronage and radicalism of the Muslim Brotherhood, that institution who now controls Egypt, much of Libya, and intends to spread like an aggressive cancer across the Middle East. Even the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia is not safe within the confines of their collective trillions. They helped to create this monster, but as the story so often goes, the monster inevitably turns against its master. So it now is with the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Read more in News
    « Obama DOJ Attempting To Alter Fast and Furious Investigation ReportDemocrats Apologize For Russian Warship Display At DNC Convention »What then of Israel? Alone in this wilderness of vile hatred and violence, surrounded by the most vile of extremism that would like nothing better than to snuff it out of existence. Netanyahu has been treated by this Obama regime as a dog. Kicked and cornered, rebuked and reprimanded. And now, on the eve of action, the Man Calling Himself Obama, does so yet again with even more sinister intent. You have likely read the reports of screaming matches between officials of both governments. Those are most certainly true, and tell less than the whole regarding just how fractured the relationship has been. But what of Netanyahu and Obama themselves? Do you recall something I hinted at before – how Obama himself demanded of Israel? How this false president threatened the only true ally America has in that troubled part of the world? Since then you have often asked what it was that was told to the Prime Minister. For my own reasons, both personal and professional, I did not comply with your requests.

    I will do so now. And please note, what I tell you is absolutely accurate. This information was delivered to me from sources at the highest levels of the Israeli government.

    Prime Minister Netanyahu, when last at the White House and during an extended period of private conversation with “Obama”, implored the president to be far more forceful in his public comments regarding the United States’ devotion to Israel’s safety and protection and its very right to exist. Netanyahu warned the president that his administration’s half-hearted gestures of friendship to Israel were in fact emboldening the more radicalized elements in the Middle East and thus endangering not only Israeli lives, but the lives of everyone in that part of the world. And then he also remarked this condition would further endanger American citizens within the United States as well, that the capitulation policies of the American government in the 1990s were instrumental in forming the attack of September 11th, 2001.

    Obama’s reaction to these words were, “agitation followed by derision”. The president then leaned toward the Prime Minister and said:

    “You have just as much blood on your hands as they do. They got a right to exist as well. Everybody does. And I don’t want this thing…this back and forth…you and them…I don’t want this turning into an election issue for me, right? I can’t be telling those people how to treat your country any more than you want me telling you how to treat them, right? You see where I’m at in this?

    Don’t you turn this into something that might take away Jewish votes for me. That’s what you got going here – I know what you’re up to. Don’t do it. This thing…Iran…don’t try…don’t hurt me politically with it. You need us. We don’t need you.”

    Now I must put that statement by Obama further into context to ensure you realize the stunning implications of what he was communicating to the Israeli Prime Minister. Netanyahu had spent considerable effort attempting to detail to the Obama what Israeli intelligence had gathered regarding Iran’s nuclear capabilities. He had also warned of the very real and serious threat of nuclear materials being handed over to terrorists both capable and willing of detonation in other parts of the world, including inside the United States. The Prime Minister indicated his own government was unwilling to take that risk, and was preparing to take very specific measures to try and ensure Iran was not given that option to do so. And to that Obama, this man so tragically elected president, to that he replied to Netanyahu to not make this an election issue for him? To not make it something that might take away Jewish votes from him?

    Imagine you are sitting in a room with a man who oversees the most powerful military in the world. The most powerful military in the history of humankind. And you are communicating earnestly, based upon knowledge you have from your own considerable intelligence sources, that not only is the Middle East in danger, but citizens living inside the United States as well, and these concerns are met with a self-serving plea not to harm an election. To in essence, simply shut up about it so as to not influence voters? How horrifying that must have been for a man so honorable as Benjamin Netanyahu. How frightening to know that the government of the United States was now being represented by the likes of “Obama” and Iranian-born Valerie Jarrett, two creatures so detached from the rich and proud history of the United States, who view that history with disdain and a desire to punish.

    That is not simple ignorance friend. What that is, so willfully exhibited by this man calling himself Obama, what that is, is outright evil. Look now on what Obama, as you describe, has built in the Middle East. American embassies being overtaken. Ambassadors and citizens murdered. Their bodies dragged through the streets. And what does the Obama administration do during all of this but apologize and promise billions more to the very people who are committing these atrocities against us. What of the fact that during their own recent political convention, these Democrats stood below a massive photo depicting Russian naval vessels? The Russian military! The very same Russian government Obama promised to be more accommodating to “after the election”. Or their purposely removing God from their own platform, and the public denunciation of Israel that occurred by over half of the delegates on their own convention floor?

    Sadly, Every Concern About This Man Calling Himself Obama Has Proven True – And Far Worse Is Yet To Come.

    My work to help defeat this threat continues, as most certainly does your own and so many others who have realized the dangers now facing all of us who love this country that was blessed since its inception by the Divine.

    There are now fewer than two months to Election Day. And then fewer than five months to Inauguration Day.

    I pray God deems me worthy enough to share with all of you in that moment. You and your many wonderfully intelligent and patriotic readers. If I had only come to know what they already knew so much earlier in my own life.

    Better late than never.

    In Friendship,

    -WSI

  9. Mickey, I’m sure much of this stuff is true and I am not going to respond to it directly. The intent of this post wasn’t to delve into all the negatives and in and outs of our government. There are oh, so many problems that DefCon is not here to cover.

    The intent of this post was to help those who are trying to decide if they want to vote for a Mormon candidate or not as related to their faith and their convictions.

    Sincerely, in Christ,
    ATG

  10. Yes ATG, i have voted both republican and democrat.

  11. David, do you think that all your votes have gone to purely orthodox christian candidates?

  12. Not at all my post was to show that it good to see that even among orthodox Christian there can be an more open mindedness. My approach is to be as forthright as possible.

  13. Thanks ATG, I understand.
    Question? Can you name the 3 monotheistic religions in the world that are all squaring off against each other, based upon the global witches brew being stirred?

    Now, wouldn’t it be nice if a “christian/mormon” could ride in and talk about Unity?!?

    Again, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear…

    These 3 must go so that the age of unity can come in! “We have a cancer in mother earth, and that cancer must be cut out so that we can save mother earth, and emergent/merge into our next evolution/new world order/ ascention to Godship.”

    …And even the elect would be deceived if possible.

  14. Mickey, so are you saying that if a Mormon is elected he’ll unify the bad guys of the world and the New World Order will be consummated?

  15. Mickey wrote:
    “…And even the elect would be deceived if possible.”
    Well we know that isn’t possible!! So am I missing something simple?

  16. ATH
    I am pointing out how late the hour is…And how great the deception is! Oh, and how quiet the pulpits are. Please refer to my earlier short post on which Election means everything? :)

    Rev Limiter
    Only time will tell..This I know, there is a Narrow Road, and a Broad Road. Many will say in that day, But Lord! LORD!! We did all these things in Your Name!” And every last one of them was sure they were on the Narrow Road of the Elect, only to find out they weren’t…and yes they were missing something simple!

  17. The difference between the narrow road and the broad road has nothing to do with whether you have sufficient understanding of the evil actions of wicked men, or of how you should vote, so it seems we’re getting a little carried away….

  18. I don’t vote according to my party. I vote according to which man’s views are most inline with the Bible. If I don’t vote at all I have no right to complain about anything that is going on in the country. As far as these two men are concerned, I’d much rather have a Morman as President than a Muslum. Besides, is any one aware that the US has just been downgraded again ? And we’ve gone from being the # 1 Nation to # 7 all under Obama ? Obama is taking the country down.Watch Fox news to get the truth. Oh and BTW,we have just been downgraded to AA-. Don’t you think we’ve had enough of this man ?

  19. I meant to put an exclamation mark after the sentence, ” And we’ve gone from being the #1 Nation to # 7 all under Obama !! And might I add, not only is he for abortion, he overturned Bush’s law forbidding partial birth abortion and made it legal again. I hope you all know what partial birth abortion is.

  20. Has anybody gone to see 2016 ? My husband & I have. It doesn’t slam Obama or put him down in any way, it’s just a movie explaining who Obama is, and what his plans are for our country. It’s completely documented and done by all Democrates. And BTW, he’s very much for abortion.

  21. “… he never proselytized, targeted or labeled specific people, groups, faiths or denominations.” Well, at least not after having cookies and soft drinks with them during a political campaign.
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/16/billy-grahams-group-removes-mormon-cult-reference-from-website-after-romney-meeting/

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