54 thoughts on “Voddie Baucham dismantles one of the most abused and misused verses in scripture.

  1. Love it! No scripture twisting here!
    Maybe he’s taught on these verses as well!
    Isaiah 53:5 / 1 Peter 2:24,
    Philippians 4:13,
    3 John 2!

  2. I love the way this man delivers the Word of God – blessed by God to build up the church for the ministry of the saints. This clip also reinforces my contention that the second part of the answer to the first question of the Westminster Catechism should be left off – the chief end of man is to glorify God. period

  3. WHAT??? I don’t see anything in Scripture that says God killed Ananias and Saphira…

    BUT – let’s say he’s right in this instance. Where ELSE in the NT did “God kill anyone”? He takes ONE example, and a nebulous one at that, and uses it to malign God’s TRUE nature.

    Jesus said if you see him, you’ve seen the father. Can anyone list any place he put sickness on someone? “I only do what I see my father doing.” He healed, he loved, he forgave, he was COMPASSIONATE. “It is the GOODNESS of God that leads man to repentance.”

    How about the Holy Spirit? Does he REALLY convict us of our sin? Well, he convicts THE WORLD of its sin so we will turn to Christ, but Jesus called him THE COMFORTER – not the rebuker, the accuser, the convicted. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

    Here, let’s make it easy… If Jesus (the last Adam) came to restore our relationship with the Father that the first Adam ruined, what is that relationship supposed to be like? What was Adam and Eve’s relationship with God like?? He met every one of their needs and fellowshipped (walked) with them. They didn’t have anyone to witness to, no sin to confess, no sickness to bear, no church meetings to attend – – they simply received His perfect love and grew in their relationship with him. Even after they sinned, he didn’t leave them. He made them clothes to wear and continued loving them.

    Who has beguiled you, you foolish pastors? The law was made for the Jews, not for the Gentiles. Thanks be to God for His amazing grace, that he sent His OWN SON not to judge the world, but to redeem them. We are sons of the most high God, his adopted children. We have the Spirit of God living and sealed within us.

    Where is the victory in living according to the law of sin and death????

  4. Mike L – if you don’t see in Scripture where God killed Ananias and Saphira you haven’t read the Bible. Search it out and read it. God hates the sinner all day long and all whose name is not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life since BEFORE the foundation of the world will experience the second death, which brings no death but everlasting dieing.

  5. Mike L,

    God is in control of everything. How do you believe those two died? I’m sorry sir, but you are off on so many levels. If you truly believe a holy and righteous God has one attribute (love) then you do *not* know the great I Am of the scriptures.

    Baucham is a Godly, Bible-believing man whom I appreciate greatly. He has helped me in my walk so much. I have watched this sermon before (a few times) and probably will again. There is NO doubt that Baucham believes in Christ alone. In no way does he suggest we live under the law of sin and death. Where are you getting that from?

  6. Mike:
    Why would you want to cause dissension when Pastor Baucham brings a straight forward teaching on a passage that’s been butchered by “teachers” for as long as I can remember? Seems to me you’ve gone way off topic! We don’t need a lesson on the grace of God! Either you agree with him or you don’t! Well, witch is it?

    By the way, do you find God’s holy law invalid for today’s Christian?

  7. Here’s a couple more verses I would love hearing him preach on:

    Psa 46:1 To the choirmaster. Of the Sons of Korah. According to Alamoth. A Song. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

    Col 1:11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.

  8. Mike L.

    You, like so many today, worship a lopsided God, a God who is only love and does not hate the wicked. You do not understand the God of the Bible {probably because the church you may attend does not preach deep biblical truths} and His attributes, for if you did, you would know His hatred of sin – as it is a strike against His nature, His holiness. Most churches in America do not preach on the attributes of God, with the exception of His love. If your God is only love, then you will be confused about the God of the Bible and His judgment and wrath against sin. You cannot have fear and reverence for a God that is only love; I encourage you to consider reading A. W. Pink’s ‘the attributes of God’ for a deeper understanding of who God really is, – http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Attributes/index.htm

    Until you dig into who God really is, posts like this one will offend you and cause you to lash out. May He grant you desire to know Him; as Pink states in this book, “The God of Scripture can only be known by those to whom He makes Himself known”.

    Lyn

  9. Mike – You can search for sermons by Voddie on the Internet. He is also on Sermon Audio, where our church loads most sermons. In church, he – and the other elders who preach there as well – would preach on those passages as they came up in the books and passages that have been scheduled to be preached. Our church is systematic about working through Old and New Testaments and the various genres found in each to make sure our people get the whole counsel of God’s Word.

  10. Mike L.

    I know from your comments on another thread you are also confused about the law and grace; your comment here reveals that as well. You seem to think we are not under the law and that grace gives us free reign. We are not bound by the law, i.e., to obey in order to be in right standing with God, but we are commanded to walk in obedience to the word of the Lord and flee sin. From Romans 6:15 “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!” Here the Apostle Paul tackles the very issue that has you baffled; commentary from John Gill may help…” here the apostle meets with an objection of the adversary, saying, that if men are not under the law, and are free from all obligation to it, then they may live as they list; nor can they be chargeable with sin, or that be objected to them; since where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed where there is no law; and if they are under grace, or in the love and favour of God, from which there is no separation, then they cannot be damned, do what they will: but this objection proceeds upon a mistaken sense of the phrase, “under the law”; for believers, though they are not under the law as the ministry of Moses, yet they are under it, as it is in the hands of Christ; and though not under its curse, yet under obligation to obedience to it, from principles of love and grace; and a transgression of it is sin in them, as in others; and which is taken notice of by God, and visited with stripes in a: fatherly way, though his loving kindness is not removed: and to argue from the unchangeableness of God’s grace, or the doctrines of it, as encouraging licentiousness, is greatly to abuse the grace of God, and manifestly betrays such persons to be ignorant of it and its influence; since nothing more powerfully engages to a love of holiness, and hatred of sin.”

  11. MmmmmHmmmm. I’m using Scripture, and you all are responding with opinion and pastors’ sermons.

    And I’m not “offended” or “lashing out.” Read my post. It is extremely clear. You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing with God’s Word.

    Neither am I causing dissension. I’m merely defending and contending for the true faith. I spent decades trying to match up Voddie’s type of teaching with what Scripture shows to be the true nature of God – – in every book of the Bible – – OT and NT. I always wondered why I never observed any of the fruits of the Spirit in those who taught it, or those who received the teaching. I finally got my nose into the Bible and allowed the Holy Spirit to open my eyes – – not a church or pastor. When we do that, we suddenly find we’re learning direct from God, not man…

    When a person matures (by asking, seeking, knocking) past that first step of becoming a believer (dealing with sin once and for all), they’ll join a small but victorious group of believers who are experiencing the abundant life that Jesus came (and died) to give us. I’ve been where you are. Yes, God hates sin, and can’t abide with it. But it was dealt with on the cross. That’s why Scripture says Jesus “died for the sins of the world.” Now there is only ONE sin that God sees: rejecting Jesus.

    Why do you think Paul contended with Peter over what “laws” the Gentile believers should follow?

    Don’t take my word for it – – look for yourselves. “Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE. (1 Jn 4:7-8)

    When we believed, we took on the righteousness of Christ. There is nothing “lopsided” about it. “we have received the gift of righteousness” (Rom 5:17) And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. (Rom 8:10) For Christ [is] the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Rom 10:4) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. (1 Cor 1:31)

    Really, brothers and sisters, don’t listen to these cemetery-trained orators. LOOK FOR YOURSELF!!! You’ll find an amazing abundant life awaits you, just as Jesus promised. The Christians I hang with of course have problems – the world is corrupt. But that isn’t GOD bringing it on them. Many times it is the result of our own poor choices. If God puts sickness on you, why do you go to the doctor? If he’s chastising you or teaching you something, do you want to short-circuit His will??

    God HEALS. I see or hear DAILY of miraculous healings. THIS is what God wants for us, not to be bogged down in the

    One last question for Katy. If God really controls everything, then I guess he’s controlling these words I’m giving you, right? Don’t let them fall on the road where the ravens (Satan) will whisk them away.

    ADDED: God HEALS. I see or hear DAILY of miraculous healings. THIS is what God wants for us, not to be bogged down in the law of sin and death.

    Unworthy1 – you continue to make assumptions about me that are completely in error and border on prideful. You have no idea what kind of church I attend, nor do you know how much study of God’s Word I have done. However, the juxtaposition of our posts should be evident as to who is in the Word vs depending on commentaries, sermons, etc.

    Look at Romans 6:15 (“What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!”) in context. Paul is disputing the claim that many today make about those who understand God’s grace. Is it a LICENSE to sin? Of course not. Just the opposite. His love and grace provides us the FREEDOM to say no to sin.

    I posted the link to the 600+ sins in the other thread. http://www.scribd.com/doc/14087682/667-Sins-in-the-Holy-Bible. I’m wondering if you even looked at it. If so, tell me – – how ya doing with those? You must have an answer? Now that you have the list, you’re responsible for avoiding every one of them. Or, and I’m assuming this from your posts, you’re confessing each one every time you commit (or omit) them.

    If God hates sin, then I can assure you, he must really hate every one of HIS CHILDREN because there’s no way even the most “holy” of us is avoiding every one of them.

  12. Mike wrote:

    “I see or hear DAILY of miraculous healing’s. THIS is what God wants for us”

    Mike, if you understand anything, may it be that God wants us holy; first and foremost!! It’s not my body that will spend eternity with Him, but my soul! The scripture is replete with verses attesting to this! I leave you with one in particular; 1 Peter 1:13-16

    May God grant you wisdom-

  13. Mike L,
    “His love and grace provides us the FREEDOM to say no to sin.” this is true, but, does that mean believers do not sin?

    As for your link to the list of sins, yes I did visit the link. Now, what does that have to do with this post, or the post on Osteen?

    Let’s go back to your comment, “WHAT??? I don’t see anything in Scripture that says God killed Ananias and Saphira” You are wrong, go to Acts 5:3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
    Act 5:4 “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
    Act 5:5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.’

    Do you understand why Ananias was struck dead? Verse 4 tells you, ‘you have not lied to men but to God’.
    Again, I will provide commentary from John Gill…
    “he fell down and gave up the ghost; which is an instance of what the Jews call death by the hand of heaven: and this was done either by an angel; or rather by an extraordinary gift bestowed on Peter, being such an one as the Apostle Paul had, and used, when he smote Elymas the sorcerer with blindness, and delivered the incestuous person, and Alexander and Hymeneus to Satan.
    And great fear came upon all them that heard these things; both upon the members of the church, and so was of service to make them careful of their words and actions, and cautious and circumspect in their lives and conversations; and upon those that were without, and might be a means of making them fearful of speaking against them, or mocking at them, or of joining themselves to them, without being thoroughly satisfied that they should, and had a right, and were meet for it.”

    What is God’s ‘true nature’?

  14. Unworthy1 – I’ll respond to Rev Limiter’s and your post with the same answer. We ARE holy. We are saints. We are the elect. Our spirits are sealed. We have the spirit if Christ in us. When God looks at us, he sees Jesus. Our sin has been put away as far as east is from west.

    These are all straight from Scripture, and there are many, many more of the same that prove our identity in Christ. Man looks at the outside (the carnal), God sees the inside (the Spirit.) This is not difficult. It’s Christianity 101. The only way you can misunderstand this is if someone helps you, and that’s what the church has done (via Voddie, Washer, etc.)

    I no longer need to confess my sin to God because He doesn’t see it. HE SEES JESUS IN ME. Asking God to forgive our sin is asking Jesus to die all over again. What isn’t clear about “IT IS FINISHED” ??

    When I become a believer, my carnal nature still “sins” but I am sinning against others. And we must confess our sins ONE TO ANOTHER. And before we come to the altar with our gift, we are to be reconciled with our brother. But we are permanently, completely reconciled to God. That has been dealt with.

    Regarding Ananias and Saphira… Really? You say I’m wrong, but quote Gill’s commentary as evidence. Does the fact that he’s a published author make him any more of an authority than I? You don’t know my credentials, and frankly I don’t want to know his. The point being that unless a person is blind, they would SEE that God did not kill anyone in the NT. Geez, look at how Jesus rebuked his disciples for wanting to harm those Samaritans who didn’t receive him in Luke 9: “And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.”

    I challenge you, Unworthy1, to “not be conformed to this world, but be TRANSFORMED by the renewing of your mind.” Renew your mind with the pure sweetness of God’s Word, and let Scripture prove Scripture. John says it plainly: “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

    I’m sure you’re aware that when Paul gave his life to Christ, he didn’t go to a seminary to learn to preach. Nor did he hang out at the feet of the disciples. Although he was fantastically knowledgeable in the Law, he couldn’t see that every book of the OT pointed to Jesus as the Messiah. He explains in Galatians that, rather than go Jerusalem, he went to Arabia, where he received revelation from the Holy Spirit. It was three years later before he finally went to Jerusalem.

    I’m not trying to start a fight here – I’m simply trying to get my brothers and sisters in Christ to enter into eternal life. What is “eternal life”? It is plainly explained, but I’d be willing to guess that no one reading this post can sum it up in two words.

    LOOK AT GOD’S WORD. Quit listening to pastors and look to God. LOOK FOR THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT – let them be your guide as to who is living in relationship with God.

  15. This is a place of limited understanding into the realm of God’s character that can be greatly maligned if we are not very careful brethren. I urge extreme caution.

  16. Mike wrote
    “I’m sure you’re aware that when Paul gave his life to Christ”

    Mike, Paul never “gave” his life to Christ; he was knocked flat – he never had a choice! This is what we call election!!!
    On a more important note, 1st. John was written to Christians, so have a long hard look at chapter 1 vs. 9! Forgiveness belongs to sin confessors!

  17. Mike,

    You are jumping all over the place with your comments, it is hard to follow what you are trying to argue against.

    Let’s address this from you “I no longer need to confess my sin to God because He doesn’t see it. HE SEES JESUS IN ME. Asking God to forgive our sin is asking Jesus to die all over again. What isn’t clear about “IT IS FINISHED” ??

    So, are you saying you are without sin? What do you do with 1 John 1:8 “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.” Who is the Apostle John addressing in the text? Is it not believers?

  18. Unworthy1 – the list of sins is provided for anyone who believes they need to confess them to God when committed to receive forgiveness. If it is true that we need to do so, then this is a service to every Christian, so they can avoid overlooking any. I recommend memorizing them so each one can be dealt with throughout the day and night, because it wouldn’t be good to suddenly die and have any unconfessed sin hanging on when God greets us. He doesn’t grade on a curve.

    On the other hand, the list might help to highlight the silliness of thinking we can ever, EVER be right with God by our own efforts, words, etc. We are righteous just like Abraham was righteous – because of our faith. (Gal 3:6 – Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. – and – Jame 2:3 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.)

  19. Mike L.

    With all due respect, you still haven’t addressed my question, are you without sin?
    You state you no longer need to confess sin, then you say it isn’t good to suddenly die and have unconfessed sin, why would that be?

  20. Unworthy1 – I am only appear to be “jumping all over the place” to those who can’t connect the dots. Everything I’m posting has to do with our righteousness in Christ.

    Why do you ask me about John 1:8? Look at the whole chapter, not just one verse out of context, and you can easily figure it out on your own. This is one of the simplest passages in the Bible. Again, the only way to misunderstand it is if someone helps you.

    – And these things write we unto you (BELIEVERS), that your joy may be full

    – If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth (UNBELIEVERS) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanest us (BELIEVERS) from all (ALL) sin.

    – If we (UNBELIEVERS) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    BUT
    – If we (UNBELIEVERS) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us (NEW BELIEVERS) from all (ALL) unrighteousness.

    10 If we say that we (UNBELIEVERS) have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (UNBELIEVERS).

    – – Look – he’s writing so that OUR JOY MAY BE FULL. I’m JOYFUL because I HAVE BEEN CLEANSED OF ALL SIN AND ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. ALL. Not some, not temporarily. ALL.

    Can it get any plainer than that? If a believer can’t grasp that, he or she is not yet ready for real meat.

    ———-

    So now it’s your turn: Explain eternal life in two words…

    I listened again the first part of Voddie’s sermon clip. Right up front he says “…It’s a beautiful promise from the Word of God. However, that promise usually rubs up against real life.”

    He attempts to discard that as a personal promise by using man’s experience. This is precisely why Scripture warns “Let God be true and every man(‘s experience) a liar.”

    Unworth1 –
    “With all due respect, you still haven’t addressed my question, are you without sin?
    You state you no longer need to confess sin, then you say it isn’t good to suddenly die and have unconfessed sin, why would that be?”

    I’m sorry – I was being facetious. I won’t do so again. Look again at my post.

    “the list of sins is provided for anyone who believes they need to confess them to God when committed to receive forgiveness. If it is true that we need to do so, then this is a service to every Christian, so they can avoid overlooking any. I recommend memorizing them so each one can be dealt with throughout the day and night, because it wouldn’t be good to suddenly die and have any unconfessed sin hanging on when God greets us. He doesn’t grade on a curve.”

    I’m trying to show the futility of this type of thinking.

    I addressed your question of being “without sin” earlier.

  21. Mike,

    According to Ephesians 4:30, we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit of God by our actions…and when we do, we confess them (i John 1:9)…not in order to be saved…because we are sealed in Christ, but rather in a humble way to show our wrongs and have a heart of repentence.

    Just as we do righteous works because we love Him, we humbly confess when we have grieved Him.

  22. Mike L,

    Yes, you are jumping all over the place in your comments; for example, you deny the word of God and the striking down of Ananias and Sapphira, then you provide a link we should adhere to concerning sin, then you say you do not need to confess sin, then you quote Romans 12:2, then you throw Paul ‘giving’ his life to Christ into the picture, then you claim God doesn’t grade on a curve, then you throw in Abraham’s righteousness…you sir are making no valid points whatsoever!! It is impossible to connect the dots because you are like a drunk on the freeway, you are all over the place!

    Let’s go back to your first comment and stick with this thread’s topic. The death of Ananias and Sapphira, what caused it and who killed them? Please use the word of God to defend your answer, and please, no more rabbit trails.

  23. Mike L.

    Acts 9:6 ~ Jesus commands Paul…didn’t ask. He told him to do it and it was done. I don’t see an iota of scripture saying that Paul stood there for a few moments to make a decision.

    Honestly, Mike L, I don’t see how this thread is truly applying to the video clip? Do you have a different way to interpret the verse in Jeremiah?

  24. Mike L.

    The topic of this thread is Voddie’s expounding on Jeremiah 29:11, this verse is NOT for you and me, it was addressed to the nation Israel. If you have questions concerning total depravity, the doctrine of election vs. free will, sanctification, etc. I am sure you can address those issues by searching this blog for posts that pertain to those specific topics.

    What is your response to Voddie’s biblical response to Jeremiah 29:11? Do you understand this is a promise for the nation Israel?

    We need to get this thread back on topic, I apologize for getting sidetracked along with you.

  25. Sorry, Unworthy, but the problem is not mine. Go back and read the posts. You ask rabbit-trail questions, I answer them, then you ask more. You don’t respond either positively or negatively. And when I pose a simple question to you, you ignore it.

    I’ve made every attempt to use Scripture to explain myself; you on the other hand depend on man’s words from commentaries. Rom 12:2 was my plea for you to stop listening to pastors and commentators and do your own Word study. Please don’t be disingenuous by pretending you didn’t understand.

    I have not denied the Word of God – I’ve denied what I believe to be your out-of-context paraphrasing of it.

    I provided the link to the list of sins so you can see the futility of trying to confess them all and trying to “maintain” our righteousness. Again, a point which you don’t respond to.

    When you start responding like someone who wants to humbly discuss our faith, I’ll answer more of your questions.

    I didn’t get on this board to attack other members. Nor should anyone attack me or make assumptions about my faith, my church, my Bible study, or my relationship with God. I am addressing the clips that have been posted for open discussion. In this case, “Voddie Baucham dismantles one of the most abused and misused verses in scripture.” I disagree with Voddie and have every right to respectfully express my disagreement. There are no rules that state I cannot or should not.

    If you choose to disagree with me, you are free to do so. If you want to ask me questions in a friendly manner, I’ll be happy to respond. But I will assume you’ll give me the same courtesy and answer mine. It’s your turn.

  26. Katy – I’m not directing the conversation here. If you’ll read the posts, you’ll see how Paul entered the conversation. And you’ve prolonged that with another comment that contains incorrect information.

    I don’t see the word “command” anywhere in that section of Scripture. If you’ll take a moment to do a quick study of the Greek in Acts 9:6, you’ll see it wasn’t anything like a command. The Amplified Bible offers a decent version that is true to the Greek:
    —–
    Now as he traveled on, he came near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him, And he fell to the ground. Then he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me [harassing, troubling, and molesting Me]?

    And Saul said, Who are You, Lord? And He said, I am Jesus, Whom you are persecuting. [b]It is dangerous and it will turn out badly for you to keep kicking against the goad [to offer vain and perilous resistance].

    Trembling and astonished he asked, Lord, what do You desire me to do? The Lord said to him, But arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.
    —–
    Note the word “desire.” And God tells him to go into the city where others will tell him what to do.

    Would like to know if you agree with this, and if not, why?

  27. Wow, what an awesome sermon. I wholeheartedly agree with Voddie.. What he said lines up with Scripture

    “Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.”-Job 2:10

  28. Mike L,
    I responded to your first comment, then it spiraled off on rabbit trails shortly thereafter.

    Now, let’s stick with the topic of the post. Do you have an issue with Voddie’s preaching on Jeremiah 29:11?

  29. So that’s your response to my last post, Unworthy1? That’s all you can muster up?

    In that case, I’ll just give you a short answer also: of course I have an issue with Voddie’s preaching on Jer. 29:11. That should be abundantly clear to anyone who’s read my posts. If you haven’t, I see no point in repeating them.

  30. Mike L. you are very gnostic in your thinking and in error not because I say so or anyone on this forum says so but because God’s word says so…

    John in 1 John was writing to Christians and included himself when he said WE… You are trying to control the whole argument and imposing on Scripture what YOU want it to say and NOT what Scripture actually teaches. Eisegesis.. You are dishonest and arrogant with everyone on here as is very conspicuous in other comboxes.. Everyone is wrong including Voddie and you are right type attitude.. Has it ever occurred to you that when people are correcting you and the majority are in agreement with what God’s word is actually teaching that maybe you need to step back and realize that you are wrong?

    The Holy Spirit is the SOLE Author of Scripture and he does NOT contradict Himself. He does NOT speak with a forked tongue…

    If you are going throughout life thinking the false teaching that you no longer SIN then you need to repent because we all still sin until we receive our glorified bodies and go to heaven…Have you kept perfectly the commandment to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind” every moment and every single day of your life?? If you and I are honest as Christians —NO we have NOT but Jesus has and we are not working for our “own” righteousness but we are working out from the ONLY righteousness acceptable to God imputed to our accounts-Jesus Christ the Righteous ONE>

    To recognize our true position in Christ is to always remember God’s GRACE and Mercy in your life…..that’s clinging to the cross. I dont confess my sins or say I’m unworthy because I don’t have WORTH , but because I know i am worthy because of the Infinite value of Jesus Christ In my life. I’m ONLY worthy and forgiven because of Christ. I will NOT stop showing Jesus how much I appreciate HIM and what He did for me and if it were not for Him even NOW I would be nothing. I will not stop being grateful and humble and take Jesus for granted just because I’m His Child.. I am NOT sinless and neither are you. But we are RIGHTEOUS because of God’s righteousness..

    . The source of evil is not in our words but our hearts.. to say We are to tell the truth to God and not “ever” say what is negative or else we will never have this positive relationship with God is very unbiblical. NO,, that is very unbiblical because God wants HONESTY and SINCERITY. GOD WANTS US TO CONFESS OUR SINS TO HIM.. Oh how very negative.. The devil would want you NOT to confess your sins—oh how positive

    Positive and negative confessions (which are false teachings) have nothing to do with Morals. Positive and negative have nothing to do with whether it is biblical or true or false. It’s a smokescreen to keep us from realizing what the real issue is and that is—–“Is what they are saying Biblical or not, is what they are saying false or not?”

  31. You are attempting to draw me down another rabbit trail, which I will not do. I also would remind you to be careful of your tone, i.e. ‘that’s all you can muster up?’ There is no need to be sarcastic or have a stinging reply. There are rules of engagement concerning posting on this blog, it is a privilege to post here. Please, let’s try and keep this on a civil level.

    Now, can you biblically defend your opposing the text as not being a reference to the nation Israel? Show us from Scripture the error of Voddie’s exegesis of the text.

    I am trying to get you to narrow down your responses to explicit answers, not tangents about various other topics. Even if you think you have already answered this, please do so again for clarity’s sake.

  32. Unbelievable… Does anyone on this site study Scripture on their own rather than parroting what their favorite pastors say??

    Linda – this verse does NOT support Voddie’s sermon:
    “Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.”-Job 2:10

    The Hebrew word translated as “trouble” is “ra”. You might recognize it. It means EVIL.

    This verse in Job is NOT saying that evil comes from the hand of God. Otherwise James must have been wrong to say “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man…Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”

    Unworthy1 – I am trying to get you to go back and read my responses… Even if you think you have already done so, please do so again for clarity’s sake.

    I am being very civil. Go back through all your responses to me and see the number of times you’ve made condescending comments. Is that OK?

    Why would I try to draw you down rabbit trails? As I said, you’ve asked a question, I’ve answered it, and you don’t have the courtesy to say whether or not you agree. You simply go off on another line of questioning. I’m not drawing you anywhere, and to say that makes you appear to be some type of victim.

    If you want to respond to the questions I’ve asked you, fine. If not, find someone else to enter into a discussion with.

  33. Let me remind you again to consider your tone. Please familiarize yourself with this…http://defendingcontending.com/rules-of-engagement/

    “I am trying to get you to go back and read my responses… Even if you think you have already done so, please do so again for clarity’s sake.”…
    It appears this is going nowhere, and time is something we should not waste. I am pretty sure I am not by myself when I say your comments are very confusing and do not really make as much sense as you may think. Your words are too confusing for me, you present no biblical basis for your stance, regardless of what you claim.

    I am not wasting any more time, I pray God will grant you discernment and clarity.

  34. Mike L. – It is WRONG to promote a list of sin for people to consider. This smacks of Roman Catholicism, wherein one must perform penance for their sins,and must confess them to a man who calls himself a priest. The Christian is told to fix his eyes on the Lord Jesus – our righteousness is a gift from Him and all our good deeds are the result of His Spirit at work in us. The devil wants us to focus on our sins – our Lord doesn’t want to pretend we don’t sin, but He wants to focus on Him, not ourselves or our sin.

  35. YAYYYY! A post I can wholeheartedly agree with. Thanks Manfred!

    I hope you’ll see that I was not “promoting” the list. If anyone cares to look, the length and breadth of it shows how unprofitable it is to be “sin conscious.” Those who insist that we must confess our sins to God to maintain our right standing with Him have no idea what they’re biting off.

    Sin is hurts others, and it hardens our hearts against God – – but He isn’t imputing it to us (he’s not keeping track.)

  36. Mike L – we know we sin and we must confess our sins to God. Sin is an offense to Holy God and it may hurt others, but hurting others is NOT the sin against God and that which the God-Man alone can atone for. ALL of the sins of the redeemed WERE imputed to Christ and His righteousness imputed to us. And every person will give an account of the deeds done in the flesh – goats and sheep. No flesh will be proud on Judgment Day. You should read 1 John and then confess your sins to God.

    Do you agree with this post as well?

  37. Unworthy1 – again you’re being condescending. I can’t believe you think the rules should apply to others and not you. I think I have been very kind considering you impolite behavior.

    The rules state “Please be careful to refrain from demeaning… condescending… insulting… disrespectful… comments.”

    Here are some of your comments to me just from this thread:

    – “You, like so many today, worship a lopsided God,”

    – “You do not understand the God of the Bible {probably because the church you may attend does not preach deep biblical truths}”

    – “You do not understand the God of the Bible {probably because the church you may attend does not preach deep biblical truths}”

    – “May He grant you desire to know Him; as Pink states in this book, “The God of Scripture can only be known by those to whom He makes Himself known”.”

    – “I know from your comments on another thread you are also confused about the law and grace; your comment here reveals that as well.”

    – “Here the Apostle Paul tackles the very issue that has you baffled;”

    – “you are like a drunk on the freeway, you are all over the place!”

    Do you really consider any of these comments acceptable?

  38. Mike L,
    The drunk on the freeway was in reference to your comments being all over the place, not an attack on you personally. The baffling was in reference to your comment we do not have to confess sin, that the law no longer applies. The lopsided God is in reference to your comments on the Osteen thread, which spawned the not understanding God’s attributes since you see God as only love {again, the Osteen thread is what I was referencing to}. I assure you, my motive was/is not to belittle you as a person. Do I consider them acceptable? They were in response to your own statements!

    You insult everyone who’s responded here with “Does anyone on this site study Scripture on their own rather than parroting what their favorite pastors say??”
    You insulted Linda’s intelligence in saying “The Hebrew word translated as “trouble” is “ra”. You might recognize it. It means EVIL.”
    Then you present somewhat of a challenge “What is “eternal life”? It is plainly explained, but I’d be willing to guess that no one reading this post can sum it up in two words.” We are all biblically illiterate here, according to you.
    Then you said ‘So that’s your response to my last post, Unworthy1? That’s all you can muster up?’

    I think it is time all moved on, this is spiraling to a level it need not go.

  39. Manfred – unfortunately, I don’t – – if you are stating that believers must continually confess their sins to God. Of course, if Scripture says otherwise, I’d be grateful if you’d show me and I’ll change my beliefs accordingly.

    Jesus died to “take away the sin of the world.” The only sin that remains is the one the Holy Spirit “convicts the world” of: rejecting Jesus Christ.

    Regarding 1 John, please see my comments on 1 John 1:8 about midway up the page.

    Once we’ve accepted Jesus Christ, sin is no longer an issue. If it is, what does it mean when the Psalmist says “As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us” ?

    You mentioned the “list’ smacks of Roman Catholicism. I’ll take that a step further. Let’s say I agree that we must confess our sins to God (which I don’t). What happens if we don’t confess them all? Do we reach a point that God rejects us? If we miss one, will He overlook it? If we miss 100? 1,000? What is the consequence when A BELIEVER doesn’t confess every sin?

    Unworthy1 – let me be blunt. You owe me an apology for your condescending attitude towards me. I didn’t ask to enter into a conversation with you. You began one with me.

    In making excuses for your rude comments, you overlooked a few. Did I also bring those on myself?

    C’mon, man. I don’t think anyone likes bullies and you’re acting like one. It will be time to move on when you own up to your rude comments.

    I don’t know how you know I insulted Linda’s intelligence. You interpreted my comment incorrectly. I was stating that everyone would probably know that “RA” means evil because it is the well-known name of the major Egyptian diety. However, if Linda was offended, I am sorry for my poor wording. I meant no offense.

    Regarding the “Does anyone on this site study Scripture on their own rather than parroting what their favorite pastors say??”- you’re right – I shouldn’t have said that, and I hope everyone accepts my apology.

    I stand corrected. I should have said “once we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.”

    As far as being Biblically illiterate, those are your words not mine. I’m simply asking for Scriptural backup to comments that are being made here. So far you’ve used mostly words and opinions of other men. Anyone can support their position that way. What’s the value in it?

  40. “Once we’ve accepted Jesus Christ, sin is no longer an issue.” This speaks volumes as to why Mike L. has such confusing responses. First of all, where in God’s word does it say we ‘accept Jesus’? “And you were dead in your trespasses and sins”, “even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” Ephesians 2:1, 5 How does a dead person accept anything spiritual? ” But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.” 1st Cor. 2:14

    Yes, sin has been atoned for, but that does not mean sin is no longer an issue. It must be confessed {1 John 1:9}. It has already been suggested that you read 1 John.

  41. I stand corrected. I should have said “once we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.”

    Again, I posted a response on the 1 John 1:8 verse earlier on, addressed to you, Unworthy1. Apparently you still haven’t read it?

  42. you say ” If we (UNBELIEVERS) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    BUT
    – If we (UNBELIEVERS) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us (NEW BELIEVERS) from all (ALL) unrighteousness.”
    What basis do you use to claim John is addressing unbelievers, then goes on to address believers? It would appear you have grossly misinterpreted the verses.

    I will respond tomorrow…

  43. May I join in?
    Mike L.
    Who killed King Herod Agrippa for receiving God’s praises as his own?
    Who killed Judas Escariot?
    The word world, what does it mean in the Greek?
    We stay with scripture right?
    In reality lets look to John 3:16 here:

    http://bible.cc/john/3-16.htm

    Next to the Greek here:

    http://biblos.com/john/3-16.htm

    So the world used several times in the context of the scripture is the word
    Kosmos, which the Greek shows us is the ordered world as in proper harmony or
    order from God’s perspective. So then He loves the world as He has ordered it,
    not the chaos satan has created nor what fallen man does.
    Let’s look at the context then here:
    John 3
    Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
    Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish
    ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a
    teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you
    are doing if God were not with him.”
    In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of
    God unless he is born again.”
    “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter
    a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!”
    Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
    unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the
    Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You
    must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but
    you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone
    born of the Spirit.”
    “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
    “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
    I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have
    seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of
    earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of
    heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from
    heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the
    Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal
    life.
    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever
    believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his
    Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
    Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands
    condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only
    Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness
    instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the
    light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
    But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen
    plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

    So we see that the most famous verse in scripture actually has a much greater
    story to it, the story of a religious man who sees something about Jesus, but
    comes to Him at night to find out more, not wanting to be seen by his fellow
    Jewish Rabbi’s and lose his power and standing. In the story, we see a religion
    out of order, or in chaos, and Jesus speaking to the proper order, and salvation
    coming to those who are “born again.” Further, we see that man cannot do this,
    only God. Could Nicodemus on his own become born again? Could he make a decision
    for Jesus and Jesus be compelled to accept him? later we will see the PROCESS of
    the Holy Spirit bringing Nicodemus to the point where he could confront his
    fellow Jewish leaders by in a way defending Jesus. Thus in my opinion there is a
    lot more to this then a simple verse can reveal, and that those who make a firm
    stand on a verse are throwing out the rest of the context of the entire cannon
    of scripture…And why we need to be so well disciplined in studying it! Jesus
    is literally setting straight the order of the world in which God loves! Those
    who He has made alive by the Holy Spirit are the ordered world he loves. These
    are referred to dozens of times as the elect!
    Jesus has died for His chosen elect called out saints who are on the Narrow Road
    that few there be that find! For broad is the road that leads to destruction and
    many enter in thereby, and that is the religious road that Jesus is calling
    those claim who “claim to be teachers” thinking they have the answer, yet it is
    His Work!
    So much of CHURCHianity has been boiled down to receipes and slogans,
    which take away from the Word of God. We need to know and understand the whole
    counsel of the Word, and that is WHY we must sit at His feet like Mary and learn
    His Word through the disciplined study of the Word in context and allow the Holy
    Spirit to reveal the meaning. Thus you, and I have the exact same Holy Spirit as
    Paul or anyone who claims to be a religious teacher…So why should we ever feel
    or be treated as if we need them to teach us when Jesus promised He would.
    Though spiritual elders who are true elders in the faith can help us as they
    function in their God calling.

    Psalms 5:5 “The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of
    INEQUITY.”

    Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
    the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
    heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
    thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
    wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
    from me, ye that work INEQUITY.”

    Now go here and read Romans 9.

    http://kingjbible.com/romans/9.htm

    You will see. “Jacob I loved and Esau I hated.” (verse 13) But continue to read
    the context and you will really see that He loves and does what and who He
    chooses. There are children of the flesh and children of the promise. (verses
    6-8) Kind of hard to wrap our heads around at first, Yet we are to be conformed
    to His Word so we can be transformed by it. Oh, and by the way. He loved Jacob
    and hated Esau BEFORE THEY WERE BORN! (verse 11) This squares with Paul’s
    reference in Malachi 1 where he chose to bless the younger, Jacob and remove the
    first born blessing from Esau.
    People have a hard time with this, mostly because we judge our selves by our
    selves. “He’s a good guy or she’s a nice gal.” As if there is a balance scale
    and if we weigh out better then worse we are God material, yet the truth is
    every last one of us deserves the Lake of Fire, without our Savior.

  44. Mike L,

    You need to please get your “we” and “us” correct. Let me help you with your quotes from 1 John (as you can’t designate what you believe the “we” and “us” are in each instance):

    – And these things write we unto you (BELIEVERS), that your joy may be full

    – If we (ANY OF US, including the speaker) say that we (ANY OF US) have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we (ANY OF US) lie, and do not practice the truth But if we (ANY OF US) walk in the light, as he is in the light, we (ANY OF US) have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanest us (ANY OF US THAT WALK IN THE LIGHT) from all (ALL) sin.

    – If we (ANY OF US) say that we have no sin, we (ANY OF US) deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (ANY OF US).
    BUT
    – If we (ANY OF US) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us (ANY OF US) from all (ALL) unrighteousness.

    10 If we say that we (ANY OF US) have not sinned, we (ANY OF US) make him a liar, and his word is not in us (ANY OF US).

  45. Thank you katy for laying out what the word of God actually teaches—

    Mike L. you are preaching heresy and error. “Most people have a tendency to blame all the good on God and all the bad on the devil. this is an ancient form of heresy. That’s known as dualism.”

    ..the former post on Def/Con Sermon of the Week: “The Sovereignty of God” lays out and explains very well how good and evil come from God….

  46. Mike L.

    You remind me of me when I want to be right!

    I have and do study Scripture.

    I have been challenged in here at times by both those who have and do study the Scriptures and by those who have misunderstood what my point was that I was making.

    I wanted to make a general observation about what I see is a flaw or sliver in your eye.

    I hope you would respond to it?

    Just go to 1 Corinthians 13 and line up “all” your responses to unworthy1 as an example. For me, what I see is wanting is an active spirit full of the Holy Spirit, Who inspired 1 Corinthians 13 to be written for our learning.

    I would also jump like that rabbit and ask you to comment for me on what is being taught by Hebrews 6:3?

    If you have any ideas or understanding has been given to you about that verse I would gladly like to read your ideas and that understanding about that verse.

    I have a few more things I want to touch on with you but for now I will hold off until you kindly reply!

    thanks

  47. Thanks for sharing. You know my wife, when she was in complete rebellion against well, life, involved in all kinds of debauchery and wild living had someone come three hours to her house and tell her about Jesus. She was going to go get high, but then decided to listened since this lady drove three hours. The lady shared how God delivered her out of a similar life to my wife was living at the time and quoted Jeremiah 29:11. My wife began to think “hope? a future? what are these things?” She was planning on being dead within the next few years and that God had different plans really got her attention. And afterwards she prayed the “prayer,” inviting Jesus into her heart type of thing.

    After this moment, she still went out and tried to get high yet couldn’t, for two weeks she tried every drug she could and it had absolutely no effect on her whereas before she could get high easily. After a series of events she ended up in a Christian recovery ministry in Chicago and got left in LA by the same ministry. She kept going in and out of periods of rebellion, even getting mugged and left to die as the mugger went to go get his gun (because she refused to have sex with him). However, God kept her alive until one day she really was feeling sorry for herself, laying on the bed, and then rose up and just cried out to God saying, “God, I’m done with my way. I can’t do this anymore. I need your help…” And after that, all desire for drugs, and her anti-depressants, and promiscuous sex was instantly destroyed from her heart and while she had to pray to overcome the withdrawl symptoms from the anti-depressants, she was set free finally, a few years after she first heard Jeremiah 29:11.

    What do you guys think of her story from beginning to end?

  48. The verse in Jeremiah in its context is directed at the nation Israel, but that does not mean God cannot use His word to draw sinners in. The Gospel isn’t a promise by God to make your earthly life better, it is a call to die to self, to pick up your cross and follow Christ. It is a call to forsake sin, to love Christ more than your spouse, your parents, your children, even your own life.

    She wasn’t saved because she heard this verse, but she was drawn to Christ by it. Even when we take verses out of context, that does not limit God’s power to save His elect.
    She continued on in sin until it nearly destroyed her; in her brokenness she cried out to God. This is the one God hears, ” The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.” Psalm 51:17 She was saved because she cried out, her ‘sinner’s prayer’ spilled out from a heart that was broken over sins’ destructive bondage and hold on her. May the Lord be praised for His saving grace.

    Thank you for sharing her amazing testimony; God receives all the glory.

  49. Excellent testimony and thank you so much for sharing Matthew. I just looooveee testimonies to the Saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ…

    ~”She wasn’t saved because she heard this verse, but she was drawn to Christ by it. Even when we take verses out of context, that does not limit God’s power to save His elect.”—Excellent unworthy..

    I agree because God has to save us from our SINS and that verse specifically does not deal with her sins. But in the end God DID draw her to Him gently by first using that verse in Jeremiah and THEN drawing her to her to complete and utter hopelessness and emptiness-“poor in spirit” before she finally saw her NEED for a savior from her SINS..

  50. Not wanting to wade into this water to far, I will a little bit.

    Matthew, something comes to me to share with you that might be of help for you to understand how the Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to help people come to the knowledge of the Truth that sets us free from our slavery to sin, the world and the devils. The Elect were known before the foundation of the world. Now that being said, there comes a moment in time when a knowledge of that reality comes alive within our being, our spirit, soul and body. One of the best places in the New Testament to understand how the Holy Spirit takes out of a historical context some Truth and then uses it in another historical contextual reality to bring an Elect into that saving knowledge of Truth that we were known before the foundation of the world, that God saves us through the sacrifice of Christ, that Christ already died for us just like both the Law and the Prophets foretold He would and we now many many years later, after hearing this “same” Truth, come to the “same” relevant saving knowledge of it is found in Romans 9. The Holy Spirit used the Apostle Paul to refer to verses from the Prophet Hosea and just a few words of a verse, even and in some sense “taken out of the context” of the historical reality of the children of Israel of that day to put over to Jews and Gentiles of his day and ours that both Elect Jews and Elect Gentiles were first “not” His people and now have become His people only by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

    It seems from your testimony about your wife, something similar has been employed by the Holy Spirit through members of the True Body of Christ (Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God) to reach her spirit making her dead spirit come alive when they were quoting from Jeremiah’s writings and this particular verse under consideration?

    There are a number of places in the New Testament where this sort of exegesis happens under the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

  51. Even if it is a multi-generational promise, IT’S STILL A PROMISE! God wants GOOD for His people. Jesus came to bring LIFE and life MORE ABUNDANTLY. That’s His M.O. The enemy is the thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy. Don’t ever forget that!

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