32 Comments

HOMOPPRESSION IS AS BAD AS HOMOPHOBIA

A most excellent post by Ken Silva at Apprising Ministries.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

It’s Not Loving And Tolerant To Withhold Truth From Someone; It’s Hateful And Harmful

The homoppression I refer to here is not telling the truth to someone, claiming to be Christian, who self-identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered, queer (LGBTQ) and thereby leaving them under oppression in their sin of practicing the sexual immorality of sexual relations with another of the same sex aka homosexuality.

As with any other sin e.g. heterosexual adultery or fornication, we are specifically commanded to tell people the truth according to God’s Word:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. (Galatians 6:1-2)

Here the Emerging Church-friendly comment of L. Ann Jervis concerning the above Scripture will prove helpful:

Addressing his readers as brothers, Paul turns to a fuller description of how a community living by the Spirit should behave. He first says that if someone is caught in a sin those who are spiritual should restore him gently. In contrast to 5:21, where Paul warned that those who do sinful acts would not inherit the kingdom of God, here Paul addresses the practical situation of a believer doing wrong.

This circumstance does not  call for the believer to be excommunicated or handed over to Satan (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5). Instead, the transgressor is to be restored, “put in order,” corrected for his or her own good.1

Well, we can’t very well restore someone until they are first “corrected for his or her own good,” now can we? Don’t go running down the rabbit trails. Sin, is sin; period. As our opening text tells us with crystalline clarity, unless one is willing to forsake it in the first place, i.e. repent, they will not enter the Kingdom of God.

However it’s also wrong, not to mention downright cruel and unloving, to simply leave people who are professing to be believers under the oppression of their sin should they transgress. And after-all, as Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989) used to say, “Christians can do a lot a stupid things.”

So the issue isn’t about whether or not Christians can commit sexual sin; only those with their heads deeply buried beneath the sand will deny that. Rather, the heart of the matter, is the appalling homoppression and unloving refusal to follow what the Bible says concerning those openly practicing the sin of homosexuality.

Unfortunately, many today are flat-out lying to these LGBTQ people, precious souls for whom Jesus also died, and telling them that they are fine in the practice of their sin. However, the absolute truth is neither they, nor anyone else, can ever be in right standing with God while remaining in willful sin.

Take for example this tweet from Huffington Post a while ago today:


(source)

The link takes up to the HuffPost piece I’m Not Saying You’re Homophobic; I’m Just Saying You’re Homophobic by Mark Sandlin, a PC(USA) Minister & co-founder of The Christian Left, who immediately reveals his own absolutely untenable position:

Until today, I’ve restrained from calling people “homophobic.” I’ve called their laws homophobic, their ideas homophobic, their words homophobic, but never them. So, today I’m coming out as a person who calls other people homophobic.

Why? Well, because they are. Homophobia is the fear of homosexuality. At this point, it is impossible for me to believe that most people who hide behind the Bible or denominational polity haven’t had more than ample time to recognize that those two things simply don’t support their belief that homosexuality is a sin. (source)

Well, no matter how many times apostates like Sandlin repeat their man-pleasing mantra that the Bible doesn’t teach homosexual relations is sin, they cannot change e.g. our opening text. It’s simply laughable to suggest that Christians faithful to the Word of our Lord are fearful of homosexuality.

All Sandlin has done in his screedal post is to find a Matthew Vines to tell him what he already wanted to hear (cf. 2 Timothy 4:3-4):

“It’s still commonplace for straight Christians to say, ‘Yes, I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but don’t blame me — I’m just reading the Bible. That’s just what it says.’ Well, first of all, no, you are not just reading the Bible. You are taking a few verses out of context and extracting from them an absolute condemnation that was never intended.” (source)

Those of us know the Bible also know that Vines is only repeating the mythology of the evil pro-homosexual lobby that’s currently tearing apart the mortally wounded mainline denominations. They’ll receive even more footing soon within mainstream evangelicalism as it more openly embraces women claiming to be pastors.

So, why has Apprising Ministries “singled out” those practicing homosexuality? I’m glad you asked; 1) first of all we have not merely singled out homosexuality, and 2) I’ve yet to notice websites such as Christ-Followers In Fornication, or Thieves 4 Jesus, or Adultermergent.

I have, however, been led by apostate Emergence Christianity theologian Dr. Tony Jones to Queermergent. Jones is also “theologian in residence” at the Emergent Church gathering of his equally apostate “pastor” Doug Pagitt; and I’ve told you about Doug Pagitt. The Emerging Church, And Affirming Homosexuality.

As I close this out, for now, I’ll give you a glaring example—over at The Gay Christian Network (GCN)—of the homoppression of which I speak. We turn to their help section under “frequently asked questions.” There we find a number of questions, which if one is not careful can send us off chasing rabbits.

One critical question is: ”Does the Bible condemn gay sex?” And we’re told:

The Bible doesn’t discuss gay feelings, but it does discuss gay sex. There are only a handful of passages which mention same-gender sexual relationships, and all of them are negative.

There are basically two ways to interpret these passages, and gay Christians are divided on which is the appropriate one.

One view holds that the Bible does condemn gay sex, and that gay Christians should commit themselves to lifelong celibacy. This is the predominant view in the Roman Catholic Church, for example.

The other view holds that the Bible condemns certain sexual practices – including the homosexual sex rites of ancient pagan idol worship – but that God blesses a loving, monogamous, Christ-centered, same-sex marriage. A lot of information on this view can be found in the “Bible & theology” section of our resource page. (source, emphasis mine)

Let’s be careful not wrestle with the snake here and just stick to the most important concerns, which I have highlighted above. Kernels of truth within these eternally deadly lies would be: 1) The Bible condemns “gay sex”; and 2) it’s true, sadly, professing Christians are divided concerning these passages.

However, the fatal poison that’s been injected is that there are two legitimate ways to interpret those admittedly negative passages. Frankly, the Christians who would try to reinterpret the Bible in this area are thinking with their feelings; they are most certainly not going by what the text of Scripture actually says.

Well-meaning or not, they are still falling for the oldest lie the enemy has: “Did God actually say” (cf. Genesis 3:1)? Tragically, because I happen to love LGBTQ people enough to tell them the truth, someone like me absolutely does run the risk of being branded homophobic; that no matter how gently I express my views.

But rather, it’s really people like Mark Sandlin and Gay Christian Network who are, in very fact, actually perpetrating a type of homoppression—albeit sincerely—by lying to them in Jesus’ Name. And shouldn’t the Body of Christ also love these people enough to admonish them to stop this madness; before it’s too late…

Further reading

Endnotes

L. Ann Jervis, New International Biblical Commentary [Peabody: Hendrickson, 1999], 153, bold hers.

About Stuart Brogden

Reformed Baptist, married to one woman since 1978, enjoy camping, motorcycle riding, solid books that assist in understanding the Word of God, fellowship with the Lord's saints, and some classical music. A wretch saved by grace, with nothing to give my Lord except my sin. Desire to make the gospel known and shepherd some of the Lord's sheep.

32 comments on “HOMOPPRESSION IS AS BAD AS HOMOPHOBIA

  1. Excellent post by Ken Silva. You don’t know how many times I’ve come up against the very thing he speaks of, that the Bible does not condemn loving homosexual relationships. What they don’t get is that it isn’t the ‘basis’ of the relationship God has called an abomination, it is the act of two members of the same sex engaging in sexual perversion, regardless of what they base that act on. I have pointed out from Scripture that homosexuality is based on a forbidden lust, not love at all. It is a selfish, self-centered sin that cares for no one except the one pursuing it. The other argument that is widely popular is the claim that the passage in Leviticus {18:22}no longer applies, they throw out the shellfish and mixed fabric as examples, as if that shores up their faulty argument. They are clueless to the Mosaic, dietary, ceremonial and moral laws and why/ how these applied to the nation Israel, while most no longer apply except the moral laws.

    It is always good to take them back to Genesis 2:24, where God ordained marriage between a man and a woman, everything outside that, including sex, is forbidden. I have yet to come across a good ‘comeback’ on this. Another good point to bring up is the fact that homosexuals cannot procreate, so obviously they were never meant to be in a relationship. It is sad to see the depravity this sin brings on, and others endorsing this like a cheering section. Only God can enlighten a darkened sin-sick mind, may He be merciful while there’s still time…

  2. Amen, Lyn. Years ago, I came into contact with the homo-celebrant crowd from the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Churches. How they love to twist the Word of God to bring satisfaction to their sinful flesh. May God have mercy – we, all like sheep have gone astray. If the Lord had not called us to Himself, we would all be useless and without hope.

  3. I would make two comments.

    One after this question:

    Well, we can’t very well restore someone until they are first “corrected for his or her own good,” now can we?

    Another after this statement:

    Rather, the heart of the matter, is the appalling homoppression and unloving refusal to follow what the Bible says concerning those openly practicing the sin of homosexuality.

    The Scripture says 1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
    The intent of the discipleship is for us to go onto maturity. Maturity is well defined by self judging. If we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. I really don’t need anyone to tell “when” I sin. The Holy Spirit is very good at convicting me. It is when I struggle and bury my head in the sand that I need someone else coming in to restore me back to fellowship in the Spirit with the Spirit and the faithful.

    As for “openly” practicing the sin of homosexuality, have you not noticed that most people committing murder or adultery or thievery or lying don’t do it “openly“?

    This reality of homosexuality has a difference edge on it and the edge violently strikes at the fundamental core of reality which is the basis for life!

  4. You’re right, michael. Seems many homo-advocates are not only “out of the closet”, they are boastful and proud of their sin. By this, beyond the sin of homosex, they show themselves to be the ones indicated in Romans 1 and 1 Peter 4:3 – 5.

    “3 For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry. 4 With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you; 5 but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.”

  5. I’ll change my mind about homosexuality when God my Father changes His.

    Sin is sin. Try to wrap it in a pretty and shiny package doesn’t change it. Cover it in 24-carat gold and it is still sin. Did Jesus ever compromise His Holiness, or speak against His Father, for the sake of being diverse and poitically-correct?

    The World is not The Bride. The World is not getting asked for its hand in marriage. The World is the lonely woman at the free bar wondering why her life is so messed-up. The World is not ours. We are Kingdom. Big difference.

  6. Can one look to the very knowledgeably folk whose wisdom one reads so often on this site for the answers to the 3 questions below?;
    1. Obviously there can never be accurate stats on these matters but does anyone have any idea roughly (or best guesstimate) of the number of divorced people and the number of gay people in the Church?.
    2. As time has gone by I read more and more Scriptural references that would indicate that homosexuality is a sin or references which would indicate it is. I’m aware of he main ones repeatedly quoted, but new ones keep appearing. Could some-one assist me and give an entire comprehensive list of such Scriptural references excluding none?
    3. We, as His Church, proclaim love and many claim that they would reflect Christ’s love (some do appear to believe that this applies to the brethren only and not to those outside the Church). From actions, words and general behavior what could one say is the % of The Church who appear to live out this life of love?
    I doubt if the average christian could answer even one of the above questions but I am aware that there are at least just a few on DefCon who have the capacity to share their knowledgeable and give rough -as said – reasonable guesstimates.

  7. I’m just sad that people could twist the bible’s clear admonitions to defend their own perverse desires. I heard on a religion show on ABC radio here in australia a “baptist minister” who defended gay relations and gay marriage using the same liberal defenses mentioned above.

  8. Ken, thanks for the post, it really cuts to the heart. And to add to what you say, 2 Timothy 3:16 clearly states that: The the whole Bible is inspired by God, and is useful for “teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”. With this truth in mind, it is most sad that people do try and reinterpret what is laid out in black and white. Also, when people say ‘homophobic’, they really don’t get the fact that Christians are to love the person, and hate the sin of homosexuality. Thus, while I hate the sin, I most certainly don’t fear it.

  9. People twist Gods word to fill their particular accommodations because that’s evidence of man’s sinful bent. They refuse to bend their knee and surrender to the TRUTH. If anyone is truly homophobic it’s in reality all who cannot accept the TRUTH of what God’s word actually says about homosexuality. They FEAR the TRUTH that homosexuality is SIN and God hates it so much he calls it an abomination..
    I recently cooked some fish and some of the unwanted parts went in the garbage can. Well to make a long story short, after sitting in my outside garbage for several days, it STINKS. I had to roll it out to the street for the city to pick up tomorrow.. Anyways my point is this. To God ALL sin STINKS in his nostrils.. I’m not sure how anyone can honestly think God will say homosexuality smells sweet in his nostrils…We cannot cover up sin. It is what it is because God is HOLY and it is against his very Character of holiness. Anyone trying to say homosexuality is acceptable in some way or nother is trying to cover up what God abhors and finds deplorable.

    Lev 19:17 “‘Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.- To fail to rebuke sin is hate and to rebuke sin is loving!

  10. Homo-oppression is even scarier than Homo-phobia because it often attacks Christian truths and the Gospel.

  11. @Slimjim: it is more scary when it comes from within the tent of christianity where you’d hope that there was a respect for the word of God. when you are bullied into silence by the thought police. People prefer the approval of men than defending the truth of God.

  12. The hard part for me is when I hear, “God made me this way. Do you think I’d choose this lifestyle?”

    I don’t believe sodomites are created by God. I believe that a sodomite voluntarily, due to his/her dead nature and “free will” therein, volitionally pursues this wickedness, and then God turns them over to their depraved passions. I believe that is the Scriptural position on the whole subject.

    Sort of gets me “riled-up” when the “leaders” of their “community” start beating the drum of civil rights too. Like they can’t change what they are. Gimme a break.

    One last thing I will add……..
    It’s only by the grace of The Almighty Savior that I’m not a murderer, a rapist, a serial killer, a reprobate, a theif, a liar, a homosexual, an adulterer, a fornicator, an abusive husband, or any such thing. Praise the Lord for His matchless grace to me.

    Todd
    Texas

  13. It is ludicrous to try and mainstream homosexuality into society by calling it “civil rights”. this is about a person’s sexual penchant.. Next they’re going to mainstream all who have a proclivity to bestiality and pedophilia. This is SIN and SIN ALWAYS has a way of spiraling a person’s life and society downwards. It just leads to decadence.

    They know it’s sin. They are just suppressing the truth. I knew when I was growing up the whole time homosexuality was sin and I was going to hell. No one needed to tell me that. It scared me. You normalize homosexuality in society just like people have normalized living together and having sex before marriage then they accept it as not being a sin. Tell yourself it’s not a sin long enough they you will actually believe the LIE. It’s Romans chapter 1.

  14. Todd,
    When they say they were born that way, I take them to James 1:13-14, “Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.”
    Homosexuality is a choice, chosen as a result of a desire for forbidden lust. In the above verses, lust comes from the Gr. word epithymia and means ‘craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden’. The root word for epithymia is made up of two root words, ‘epi’ and ‘thymos’ which is defined as ‘glow, ardour, the wine of passion, inflaming wine (which either drives the drinker mad or kills him with its strength)’ – this describes the destruction of homosexuality. This sin destroys families, children, society; it breeds addiction, violence, and deadly sexually transmitted disease. The desire to fulfill this forbidden lust is so strong, it overtakes the sinner and sends them into deep, dark depravity. They are so driven to pursue this lust and will go to every and all lengths to push their agenda. It is very comparable to a maddening state of mind, just as Genesis 19:11 attests to “They struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway.” How depraved is that? To be struck blind and yet, continue to pursue their forbidden lusts. This kind of drive and desire is hard to comprehend by many, it is scary to think homosexuals, who are so depraved in their thinking, are raising children. You may be interested in this story…http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

  15. James 1:13-14—excellent unworthy… I didn’t think of that… Thanks for your right use of God’s word to expose their error

  16. @Bruce. That’s true. Even more sad.

  17. Responses to Homosexuality:
    Homophobic – Homo-oppressive – Or Simply Biblio-centric?

    Phobia is best defined as “1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous. 2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.” (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/phobia).

    Oppressive, or oppress is best defined as “1. To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority: a people who were oppressed by tyranny. 2. To weigh heavily on 3. Obsolete To overwhelm or crush.” (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/phobia).

    By the above definitions, it would appear that the heterosexual liberal community, as well as the homosexual community is more or less “phobic” of the Biblical truths that reference the choice of a homosexual lifestyle. Moreover, concerning an atmosphere of homo-oppression, a mere Biblically and truthful response to any sin is not an oppressive act but rather an act of liberation. (John 8: 33).

    It is not to say that homophobic or homo-oppressive responses are not made by the church and her membership. But rather, the church and her membership must respond in a Biblio-centric fashion to all sin. It would be remiss of the church to pander to the liberal pop-culture feel good mentality of the post-modern and post-Christian culture. It would be a heinous crime against sinful humanity to preach anything less than the full council of Scripture.

    It is the Word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit that transforms any sin-laden lifestyle However, the preaching of, mentoring of, and praying for any person or part of the culture that opposes the Word of God must be accomplished in love and concern for their souls and the salvation thereof.

    The church and her response to the issue of homosexuality as an abomination before God must be Biblical – it is a sin. The church and her membership’s response to the world must be Biblio-centric, exalting Christ and honoring God. Homosexuality is not a mere topic but rather a people group and like any other people group, they need to hear and SEE the Gospel at work in the lives of believers.

    The Biblical truth about anything has never been a popular idea. Yet the church must continue to preach, teach and live the truth realizing all the while that the truth will be opposed and bring to the surface irrational fear and avoidance. Remembering also the admonition from the apostle Paul “let all that you do be done in love” (1 Cor. 16: 14).

  18. The passage in James is a good one, to be sure. It’s foolishness to them who are perishing though. Their hearts are black, their souls are dead, and they’re deaf and blind as well. ONLY the gospel of Christ can give them a new record in Heaven and a new heart on earth.

    Like it or not folks, this scourge upon our culture is here to stay, and it’s up to us, as Christ’s ambassadors, to be ready to give a reason for the hope that is within us. It’s also important to remember that the world will hate us, mock us, fire us, discriminate against us, lie about us, be malicious toward us, and perhaps even imprison or kill us. We are to be of good cheer when these things happen, and they will, because our Savior has already overcome the world.

    Todd
    Texas

  19. Bro. Steve – I agree with you in your perception that the God-hating culture has co-opted the language to a large degree. I have refused to call homosexuals “gay”, in an act of simple rebellion against the spirit of the age.

  20. Your Are So Correct Manfred – There is nothing gay about a lifestyle that exchanges God for some form of an idol. The idol that tempts and preys upon all of humanity is self. I am in agreement that, as some have opined, same-sex attraction is a form of idolatry in that the person-object of attraction is found to be a “mirror image” of the one who is seeking “satisfaction”. From Genesis forward, the canon of Scripture directs that man is a community-based creation, however, man’s most God-glorifying and intimate relationship is to be manifested in the confines of marriage between a man and a woman.

  21. Amen, Steve. Ephesians 5 makes it clear: the PRIMARY purpose for marriage is to portray the relationship Christ has with His church – the whole redeemed community. How wicked is it when men twist that sacred covenant into something that pleases the sinful flesh!

  22. Amen Bro.Steve and Manfred.What encouraging truths with compassion in your statements.

  23. Some more portions of Scripture to note with regard to the visceral reactions we see the GLBT community and really, all communities of people have towards Christ and His Church is found here:

    2Co 2:14 But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere.
    2Co 2:15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,
    2Co 2:16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?
    2Co 2:17 For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

    Whatever the sinful nature and practice, the only solution for that pollution is not dilution, but absolution and thereafter a lifestyle energized by the Life of Christ!

    The Body of Christ from the smallest to the greatest among us is a “Light” house that shines the “Light” of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    Rom 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers–for I am speaking to those who know the law–that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?
    Rom 7:2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.
    Rom 7:3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
    Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
    Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
    Rom 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

    The “tension” we “should” sense transcends this debate with the GLBT community. In fact, the Gospel is an annoying intrusion to those dwelling in darkness and the shadow of death. I know it was and still is for me. I know that there is nothing good that my flesh can produce. I know that every day I have to die to self, eat and drink from the food of Heaven, that daily bread, daily!

    We are to be separated from the world and her forms of living. We on our own have nothing within ourselves that can do this. It takes an “outside” Word to put us to death so that we can rise up in newness of Life! God sent Jesus to save “His” people from their sins!

    Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
    Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
    Rom 6:7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.
    Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
    Rom 6:9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

    2Co 4:1 Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart.
    2Co 4:2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.
    2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing.
    2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
    2Co 4:5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
    2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
    2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.

    I am sure we will have to remain vigilant and sober minded every day of our remaining life as we sojourn in this fallen world devils full and always inspiring rebellion against God and His Word!

    Therefore, as the Apostle Paul commended, so I commend, too, because it makes no difference what your unique persuasion and bent is towards sin whether you were saved being in the GLBT community or a secret society of men. God and the Word of His Grace saves us from ourselves and sinful natures:

    Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

  24. Manfred wrote:
    “Years ago, I came into contact with the homo-celebrant crowd from the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Churches. How they love to twist the Word of God to bring satisfaction to their sinful flesh.”
    No question about it!

    Below is a clip of my friend Steve Sanchez speaking with a man at the recent Hollywood gay pride festival! No homoppression here; he brings the truth of the gospel in a kind, and understanding way! Steve has warned the man of his sin and yet “he” continues to twist the scripture to suit himself. As in any situation such as this, it’s the work of the Holy Spirit that can eventually bring this man to salvation if He so chooses!
    And please note, he mentions the hate preacher across the street. Sad that some are so self righteous!

  25. It seems to me as I listen to the video that the scripture to speak here is 1 Thess.4:1-8. While I have not studied Greek, I do note that Paul is speaking to a group, but he is also speaking individually as well (see vs 4). There Paul reminds me as a individual that I am to have nothing to do with sexual immorality. Sexuality immorality covers a staggering number of choices, one of which includes homosexuality. If homosexuality is my struggle, then I am to steer clear. Because God’s purpose for me is holiness, I must learn (with His strength, His guidance, for His glory ) to master my body, my vessel.

    On a side note: This is my first time to post to DC, but not first time to visit and revisit. I appreciate all comments or any corrections where I may have faltered.

  26. great observation and exegesis of 1 Thess 4:1-8

  27. deanboyd3 wrote:
    ” There Paul reminds me as a individual that I am to have nothing to do with sexual immorality.”
    Good to hear from you my friend! I’m a little confused as to your above statement. Are you suggesting that we who preach on the street stay away from those in the homosexual community?
    You also state, ” If homosexuality is my struggle, then I am to steer clear.” Neither Steve or myself have any tendencies toward this type of lifestyle. The goal here is to get the gospel out to as many folks as possible, regardless of their way of life! If you recall reading in Ken’s post he said, ” As with any other sin e.g. heterosexual adultery or fornication, we are specifically commanded to tell people the truth according to God’s Word!”
    Hope to hear from you!
    Blessings in Christ,
    Rev-

  28. Bro. Steve – Appreciate your comment!

    Rev Limiter – Thank you for your response. I see how my comment does not go far enough in explaining. My overall point is that if I personally struggle with sexual immorality within my own physical body, specifically with homosexuality, then I am to have nothing to do with homosexuality. No entertaining of ideas, materials, actions, etc. that would lead to my sinning in this manner.

    As far as you and Steve (and for that matter, all believers) presenting God’s truth, you both are on the right track. The truth must be presented, according to God’s Word no matter what lifestyle is embraced or rejected. Those who do not know the truth must hear the truth… for until they hear and know the truth, there is no hope for them.

    Bro. Dean

  29. Steer clear in-so-far as a lifestyle choice – but – reaching the lost – Jesus ate with sinners (a most deplorable thing to do in the historical context of His day) – and we are to go into the hedgerows and highways compellng them to come to Jesus – blessings my yoke-fellows in the Lord .. have a blessed day of worship tomorrow …

  30. Bro. Steve,

    I know it is hard for me to comprehend it, but I will say Jesus was tempted at “all” points as we are yet without sin!

    Here is place of refuge for the perverse no matter the perversion in light of that reality if they are called out of the world as we were!

    If the Bible didn’t teach it I would not be able to believe it and offer counsel and encouragement to those who struggle with this sort of perversion.

    While my sin isn’t the subject matter in this thread, my sin is nevertheless my sin and the only One who has been given authority to address it is Jesus Christ in the Church! The Apostle Paul wrote this:

    Rom 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
    Rom 2:2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things.
    Rom 2:3 Do you suppose, O man–you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself–that you will escape the judgment of God?

    For me, totally depraved fully deserving both temporal and eternal punishment, I need to distinguish between my Christian brother or sister who struggles with this sort of sin and those outside the camp, so to speak who accept it as normal and natural.

    We can apply discipline to that brother or sister who will not repent keeping in mind this admonition from Hebrews written for us about being in the world in which we find ourselves living in to the Glory of God:

    Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
    Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;
    Heb 12:16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.

    1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people–
    1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
    1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler–not even to eat with such a one.
    1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
    1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

  31. Nothing quite like the venom of Heterophobics is there!

    I’m narrow minded because I won’t put up with their open minded desire to run my life for me…

  32. i do not believe people choose to be gay. not always. its like alcoholism. its like adam’s and eve’s sin. it’s something that can be inherited. like david’s adultery and murder manifesting even worse in his sons. its a generational curse.

    the blood of jesus is the only cure. i believe people can be delivered from these demons. the reason people do not stay delivered is because “a dog will return to his vomit.”

    im not shifting accountability. the sould who commits the sin will die for it. but people have a greater chance of commiting the sin if its flourished in previous generations.
    sadly. im a dog. i know what im talking about because ive been delivered. i took it back. god may deliver you from the desires but satan hs the right to tempt you in your mind. you allow him to take back your mind instead of keeping it on whatever is pure and holy, he will reclaim your body. at one point i had no sexual desire for women. i gave up my freedom and allowed satan place in my mind. now i suffer with the desires again

    Also, they Q is not for “Queer,” which is like the “N” word to gay people. It stands for Questioning. In otherwards, for people who think they might be sexually attracted to same sex or transgendered, or they might not be. I can’t remember the new anagram order but it also includes “Allies” and “O” for omnisexual.

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