25 Comments

Independence Day and the state of the church in America.

Today marks the 234th anniversary of our nation’s birth, but this occasion brings to mind two problems that I see within Christendom; both of which have the same solution.

Firstly, why do we (every year at this time) feel the need to mix nationalism with the church? On this Sunday, Christians will be running from church to BBQs and parties; some won’t even need to leave the church property as all the festivities will be rolled into one like a church in my local area advertising the events they’re having at their “community freedom festival” which include:

Pony rides / Face painting / Food and drinks / Sno-cones, popcorn, cotton candy / Games and prizes / Bounce houses / Giant slide / Dunk tank / Crafts for the kids / Live music / And much more.

Remember, dear readers, this is a “church.” The only reference on their advertisement that has anything to do with Christianity (not even the name of the church indicates it’s a church) is the slogan “Christian Fellowship” under the church name. If you miss that, you won’t even know it’s a church.

Then there’sthis church’s 4th of July baptism fiasco:

“You don’t want to miss this weekend at NPC. There will be a special dueling guitar performance, spectacular pyrotechnics and hundreds of people getting dunked at Freedom Splash. It’s a great way to begin your Independence Day festivities! . . . Freedom Splash is a weekend designed for hundreds of families, adults, teenagers, and kids to get baptized. We invite you to take this step this weekend! We will have 2 giant swimming pools set up outside the main entrance. After attending service make your way out to the pools, sign in, and get baptized. . . . Jesus asked us to make our faith public by being baptized, so invite your family and friends to come and witness this step in your faith journey. You will receive an awesome Freedom Splash t-shirt to wear the day of the event (there is a $5 donation for the t-shirt, if you can’t pay still come and sign up).”

I am not opposed to celebrating Independence Day, but I am opposed to the mixture of the things of this world with the things of God, even if the thing being mixed is commendable, like patriotism.

The inescapable fact of the matter is that our nation today bears very little resemblance to that which was birthed in 1776, and I seriously doubt we will ever recover from its current state of moral and spiritual decay to return to what it once was.

Yet today, many of the messages in churches will have an Americana theme, and “God bless America” will be peppered throughout numerous sermons, as if God somehow overlooks the sin of this nation and its people because, after all, we’re Americans.

Today is the Lord’s Day, but what will be the main theme in many churches in America? I ask you to examine for yourselves what the emphasis will be on. Will it be on Christ or the country? What should the emphasis in church be on?

This leads me to my second concern: This independence day, should we be celebrating or mourning, partying or repenting? There’s an elephant in the room that no one seems to be talking about.

This, I know, will ruffle some feathers (even amongst the faithful readership of DefCon) but it needs to be said: Since when did Christianity become a political wing or special interest group?

As the masses in Christendom still seriously think they can ask God to bless this nation, they continue to hold out hope for America by means of political action. So many professing Christians I know of can spend countless hours talking politics, and countless hours working toward obtaining the desired results of the next election, yet how many of them talk about the Gospel with those same family members, neighbors, and friends?

I’ve bullet-pointed a few more of my concerns:

-  How much time and effort do Christians spend on politics compared to Bible reading, prayer, family devotions, evangelism, etc?

- Are there any politicians who—if they win—would really make a difference? Look at how many elections we’ve had since Roe v. Wade (many of which put pro-life Republicans into power), yet the genocide of the most innocent and defenseless class in our society rages on as we “legally” put more children to death daily than the terrorists had killed on 9/11.

- Are there any politicians who—like many who founded this country—are selfless in their political endeavors? Can you (honestly) name one politician who is involved in politics for the people and not for their own greed and self-interests? If you can, then I ask you, “Do they have a chance of winning?”

- What are Christians fighting in the political arena for? If they elected every person on the ballot that they thought was the best for our country, would it really change anything? Would they be capable of renewing the hearts of the people?

- Be careful what you wish for: You want to elect people who will re-institute school prayer? If they reversed the ban today, I fear your children in the government schools would be bowing to Mecca tomorrow.

- What is more important and has greater eternal consequences? The spreading of your politics views, or the preaching of Christ and Him crucified?

- How do you ever expect to reach your unsaved neighbor or coworker (the one who happens to be a staunch liberal democrat) when they see your car plastered with political bumper stickers and your front lawn littered with campaign signs, all of which advance a political worldview that is in complete opposition to their political world view? Have you not already polarized them before they meet you and have you not already turned them off to any other message you may bring before you even open your mouth?

- Is it politics and social issues that are the power unto salvation, or is it the Gospel?

- How much does evangelism suffer because politics reigns supreme in the lives of so many Christians?

My plea is that we will remove our heads out of the political sand. We will not change the inevitable course this country is on (if you can’t see the handwriting on the wall, you’re not paying attention).

In just my generation alone, homosexuality went from a taboo, to being embraced, to being celebrated, to being a morally virtuous lifestyle, to laws being passed that make those who oppose it fit to be charged criminally for “hate crimes” (as if there’s such a thing as a “love crime”). Mark my words, you will not stop the current tide no matter how politically active you are. Homosexual marriage will become a reality in this country; abortion will continue in this country; spiritual decline and carnal decadence will continue in this country, no matter who gets elected.

History shows that when a nation gets to where we are, it crumbles from the inside and is soon taken over by other nations that only had to sit back and wait for the moral rot to hollow out our foundations. (There’s even suggestions that this nation has already been abandoned by God, in spite of our plethora of “God bless America” bumper stickers, hats, and t-shirts.)

Jesus, the Disciples, and even the Apostle Paul never tried to change hearts by political action, nor did they try to legislate morality in the Roman world. They were too busy preaching “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” Yet American Christianity is too busy to preach the Gospel because they are so enamored and preoccupied with worldly politics.

Let me ask you, how many people do you expect to see in heaven because of your political efforts? Is God more glorified through the preaching of His Son, or through the preaching of the benefits and virtues of the latest political flavor of the month?

I’d like to conclude by clarifying what this missive is NOT about. Unfortunately I must do this because blogging experience has taught me that my words will be misunderstood and even twisted to create arguments that I never advanced:

- I am NOT against attending (or even hosting) Independence Day parties and BBQs; I’m simply saying that worldly celebrations should not be mingled (and ultimately eclipse) Jesus Christ on the Lord’s Day (or any other day for that matter).

- I do NOT rejoice at seeing what America has come to. I do NOT like when bad things happen to it. I am terribly sad to see what it has become and am angered when it is attacked. It still hurts to ponder the events of 9/11.

- I do NOT hate this country. This is the country of my birth and I have always been happy to live here. I still get teary-eyed during the playing of the Star Spangled Banner and Lee Greenwood’s God Bless the USA.

I love what this country was, but am grieved by what it’s become. The country we have today is not the country that was founded by this nation’s forefathers, and there’s nothing you or I can do to stop or reverse the condition we find ourselves in. Instead, I urge you to return to your first love, the Lord Jesus Christ. Turn your affections once again to Him, His Church, and to the work of building up His kingdom—not by worldly Dominionst means—but by making disciples.

We should be identified first and foremost by our religion, not our politics. And our ultimate allegiance should not be to a political party, a flag, or a nation, but to the Lamb of God who is worthy to receive honor, and glory, and power, forever and ever, Amen.

See also: Has the Religious Right lost its voice in American politics?

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25 comments on “Independence Day and the state of the church in America.

  1. At the risk of ruffling feathers on my side as well, I can’t see anywhere in God’s Word where we are told to run for governement and change society through writing laws. We are told to proclaim the Gospel, making disciples out of the nations.

    I know of a man who claims to be a Christian who is also a city counsellor. When he ran last election, he made sure he had enough votes to get himself elected…naturally. But when I found out WHOSE vote he was getting, it made me sick and angry. For he broke ground at a Kalsa Punjabi School and Temple, he participated in Muslim events, and befriended those who curse His Lord Jesus and call Him an infidel. Is this honouring to Christ? What sort of example is he setting for those who look up to him for leadership? I guess I will be called “judgmental” once again, but really people, the Bible calls us pilgrims for a reason, we are passing through making our way to heaven and bringing as many with us as possible. Woe to him who is friends with the world, for in becoming the world’s friend he inevitably becomes God’s enemy.

  2. You wrote this so much better than I ever could Pilgrim. I agree with all that you wrote and I can see it a lot of this nationalism and dominionism that you wrote about in today’s community centers, today’s Christians, and from my friends and family. I see it in the nastiness I get on Facebook for posting things about how I am a Christian before I am an American or posting that quote about dressing for Church and dressing for the beach.

    Thank you for sharing this Pilgrim.

  3. Thanks for reminding all who follow Christ what it is we are called to be doing!

    ~ktf~
    John

  4. Awesome commentary on the state of what was, is and will probably be given the road America has taken to travel on. The very same can be said for up here in Canada. We’re right behind you in all concerns you have raised.

    May God have mercy on us all and help us to keep our eyes fixed upon who is truly important, first and foremost: Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, and our allegience to Him. All else pales in comaprison.

  5. Amen!!!!
    The church I until recently attended will have on “the stage” a giant flag
    of course you won’t find a cross anywhere but then again they don’t really talk
    much about the cross anyway…..which is why its the church I used to attend.
    Last year there we some who had issues with the flag and the comments were “go live in Afghanistan then”…..as if we in America don’t need to repent of our wickedness
    How many abortions take place every day in the land of the “free”?????
    Only Christ can make you free. I’m trying to find a good solid bible believing church to call home

  6. By their fruit you will know them!

  7. I am pleased, as a former Army officer, to finally belong to a church that does NOT celebrate July 4th and make a big deal about such things. As a brother mentioned to me this morning, Christians ought to be celebrating – today and everyday – “in Him dependence day” :-)

  8. With the situation my wife and I are going through with the corrupt gov’t up here in Canada, one has to wonder what freedom truly is? In China, there is no such thing as Social Workers, with what we’ve seen in our case, that’s not such a bad idea. The power these governmental workers have is atrocious. They can walk into anyone’s home day or night, with an army of police in tow, take children out of their beds, baths etc., on a phone call from an anomynous caller who doesn’t have to be identified. Hope Def Con readers keep on good terms with their neightbours, co-workers, etc., because all it takes is one phone call and you will be thrust into a world that has no rules, and no accountability whatsoever and the tax-payers will fund their onslaught against you. This is a world I never thought in a million years I would find myself in and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Freedom and rights in a country that exalts individualism and protects the person? Not from what I’ve seen. What has happened to us, happens every day to many thousands of people all over North America. If anyone of of your readers want to educate themselves on Child Protection, go to this website and feel a cold chill go down your spine as you read about countless stories of heartbreak and sorrow.

    http://fixcas.com/

    I am not proud of my country in the least, I am proud of what it could be and what is was at one time, but as it stands, Canada is a hotbed for liberalism, feminism, humanism and sin and will be judged by the hand of an incensed and angry God.

    And yes, Manfred, thank God we have our dependance in Him, for without God, what a sorry sight we would be.

  9. A healthy reminder of where our citizenship lies as believers is a great comfort for me personally. Although we can easily fault Lot for his poor choice of residence, we nevertheless find inspired New Testament commentary in 2 Peter 2:7-9 giving us a glimpse into his inner man:

    and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,

    Like righteous Lot, we all choose to a greater or lesser extent where we live. Lot could have moved away from the wicked city in which he dwelt, just as each of us could. Yet where we would go to escape the corruptions of this fallen world? Wouldn’t we need to leave the world? In a word, yes.

    I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people — not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. – 1 Cor. 5:9-10

    But we aren’t to leave the world, or even seek to change our position in it apart from the providence of the Lord leading and moving us. In fact we are to be contented and rejoice, even in the midst of persecutions. In His good pleasure God has placed each of us exactly where He would have us, for such a time as this. Our is only to submit, and prayerfully ask, “How can I be righteous here?

    How can I honor Christ where I am, right now, today?
    How can I be holy in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation?
    How can I live out my life in a manner than reflects the glory of God?
    How can I be righteous here?

    Thankfully God doesn’t leave us in the dark when we ask these questions. Instead He has mercifully and graciously given us His Word to be a lamp unto our feet, and a light unto our path. Man won’t find political or social salvation in this fallen world. That’s a pipe dream, a hoax, a sham and a fraud. There are no man-made solutions to the problems facing culture, the one and only cure for the culture is the Gospel.

    Yet within the cultures of men Christians are to abide as salt and light, and they are to submit to the authorities God has ordained. Among the ways believers honor Christ in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, in a manner that reflects the glory of God, is by submitting to governments of men which have been established by God Himself.

    13 Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. – 1 Peter 2:13-17

    Peter penned these words under inspiration of the Holy Spirit to encourage believers who were beginning to feel the persecution of the Roman government in addition to the persecution they were already receiving from unbelieving Jews. Nero Caesar, a megalomaniacal murderer, psychopath, and extreme sexual deviant was the emperor at that time. Within a few short years of writing his inspired epistle Peter would be executed by the same Roman government to which he commanded fealty. If you think YOUR government is bad you should know that among the delights enjoyed by Nero was to have his palace garden lit at night by the burning bodies of Christian martyrs fastened upon pikes.

    Yet Peter commanded obedience to this government, and by extension the Lord commands this same obedience to His people of all ages. What is this submission? Of what does it consist? For believers it’s a free act undertaken by Christians to accept the authority that God has sovereignly placed over us.

    1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. – Romans 13:1-7

    Do you go along with the parts of government you like? Do you cash those tax refund checks, or appreciate the fact that you can happily ignore most aspects of government because they simply don’t apply to your day to day life? Going with the flow when things are mostly going our way isn’t Biblical submission. Do you turn up your tongue against the governing authorities? Do you harbor bitterness, resentment, anger, and even hatred for certain elected officials? Do you gossip, slander and speak evil of them? These are evil motives and represent a perverse and corrupted heart. Are your thoughts about government driven by the Word of God, or by your own sinful pride?

    1 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. – Titus 3:1-2

    Lord help us to be obedient to You, and to be doers as well as hearers of Your Word.

    In Christ,
    CD

  10. Amen to a well written and honest article. Having grown up in the 1950s, I often feel like I’m sitting on a fence able to view two different worlds. One I grew up in, and the one I’m forced to endure now. I can look back to a time that was not without sin, for sure, but one in which I could go into ANY Christian Church across this nation knowing I would hear the Gospel being preached. Now, I almost have to do a background check before considering attending. A time when I could turn on the T.V. and, as a child, my mother didn’t have to “monitor” what was coming through it into the living room. A time when I could go outside to play and my mother was confident that the adults in my neighborhood would actually look out for my best interest, and not try to harm me. A time when, if there was a problem in the family, we could count on a speedy visit from our Pastor and follow-up from members of the congregation. This was the way life was all across this nation when I was a child. This nation does not even look like the one I grew up in just a short 50 years ago, much less the one God blessed at it’s founding. This may rankle some, but I firmly believe that the Pastors in our churches share the lionshare of blame for the moral decay that has taken over our country. Over these past 50 years, our churches have become unrecognizable. But, I also believe this is the primary fault of their congregations. We, as individual Christians, have allowed this to happen. I pray that God will have mercy on every one of us.

  11. Sigh…how true. I was told a story by someone (just can’t remember where) about this person’s mom would leave a note on the fridge when they went out (of course the doors were never locked), saying to anyone who decided to “break in”, “Help yourself to anything in the fridge, don’t worry about the dishes, I’ll clean them up when I get back.”

    My dad talked about the days when his family would actually leave the keys in their car when they went into a store, knowing that they would be there when they came out.
    Those were the days…

  12. Actually I have to disagree with tour concept of “Mixing”. We are supposed to be in the world not of it. We should not be separating ourselves from worldly people and events. We should be out there attending BBQ’s, going to bike rallies, having folks come to the church for picnics etc. We should speak up about politics and abortion and drugs.
    Having a church service and then a BBQ.. it is called fellowship. We have a bible study at my house on tuesdays.. we eat then we study we mix our fiath with our lives and talk about Jesus, life, the church etc.
    The only way to meet the saved is to do those things that give you a chance to meet them or go to those places where they will be at.
    We just have to make sure we are being an influence and not being influenced.
    More christians should go to bars and have a few cokes or to bike rallies, county fairs, political rallies … Lets go and make FOOLS of yourselves – For Christ
    ____________________________________

    and yes we should hang out with Muslims, atheists, Jews.. again as long as we are being the influence… Jesus did not hang out with the holy men of the day.. he said he came for the SICK…
    The easiest way to have no influence is to only hang out with and talk with other christians that believe exactly as you do… that way you will never have to talk to an unsaved person, or risk being laughed at, abused, tormented, cursed at, called names, or spit on….
    But we are commanded to GO AND TEACH………… which requires you to get out of your house, church, car and be a witness to atheists, Muslims, Jews, etc
    If all you do is hang out with other christians, you will never witness to an unsaved person, you will never get the honor of being laughed at, cursed at, spit on, or called names.. what a shame

  13. On the topic of our place in this world, which seems to be a hot issue lately with a lot of Def Con posts, I will defer you to my blog and an article I wrote concerning 1 John 2. 15-17. I even used John Wesley’s very own notes on the subject.

    http://revivalandreformation.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/love-the-world-or-love-god/

  14. Dear Mark Wright:

    I agree with much of what you said, however, I am at a loss as to what this has to do with the original post.

    Additionally, your comment presupposes that we (or me) are calling for and advocating Christians to hide away in churches and never make contact with the lost. This post does not advance that idea and neither have I seen any of the contributors (or frequent commenters) ever suggest such a thing. So again, I am at a loss as to what the point of the comment was in relation to the post.

  15. Mark, I have seen many that used their so called faith as a cloak to cover their sin’s, I have seen many fall who thought they could be friends with the world. But the truth was that they loved the world more than the things of God. Yes they were foolish for sure. God tells use in these last days to come out from among them and not to receive their plagues. Those plagued in the heart can only be saved by the grace of God and not our mingling with their dead works. God is faithful and he will call to Himself those who are his by His word, He will drag them to himself so it is said. So I hope that you are not as some that I have seen who would befriend the world in complacency giving in to sin thinking they could pull some poor sinner out with them, when they themselves were damned trusting in the good works they thought or said they were doing. Believe me when I say and the word of God more so; that the world is not our friend and only seeks to destroy us. So be careful walking in the way of sinners!
    1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
    1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
    1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
    1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
    1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
    1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
    1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

  16. Pilgrim:

    Thank you for saying it like it is, despite the “politically incorrect” stand, which so happens to match perfectly what the Bible says throughout.

    Is not the concept of mixture forbidden in both Testaments? Does not God’s creation itself make the distinction between light and darkness? Were not the Israelites forbidden to engage in the practices of the Gentiles? Are not Christians “the called out ones” (ekklesia) who are to be separate (2 Cor.6:17)? Does not the flesh war against the spirit, and are they not contrary to one another (Gal.5:17)? Is there any agreement between Christ and Belial (2Cor.6:15)? Are not Christians specifically commanded to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers (2Cor. 6:14)? Is there any partnership between righteousness and unrighteousness? Furthermore, Christians are commanded to have no fellowship with another who claims to be a Christian, if he practices that which God forbids (1 Cor. 5:11).

    Why, then, is all this cast aside in favor of the latest “just moral cause”? Why do followers of Christ join with those who are not followers of Christ (in accordance with the Scriptures), even going so far as to pray with them, to effect change in the laws of a fallen world? Where do we ever see that concept displayed in the New Testament? I do not find anywhere in God’s word where Christians are to make this world system, or it’s governments, more pleasing to God through legislation. That may be the logic of some, but it bypasses and rejects what God has specifically declared in His word.

    Attempting to fix this world is missing the point entirely. It is man himself that needs “fixing”. Man himself needs to be regenerated by the one and only means God the Creator has provided: by the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

    Christians who think political action, or their precious Republican Party can save their precious America, are spending their energies in a hopelessly faulty endeavor. We need to return to what God called us to do in the first place.

  17. Hey, I more or less agree with what you said..minus the teary eyed bit about the Star Spangled Banner and the Lee Greenwood song…and I don’t think Patriotism is commendable. Maybe if you differentiate between Nationalism and Patriotism……Love of country, land, culture, food…things like that..sure that’s fine. Nationalism is a different kettle of stew…it’s a form of Idolatry.

    Good night, you can listen to that and then you beat up on me for what I said in the other thread????

    Politics…cultural morality….the world, we interact— but we’re not off it….we can’t hide from it….but we need to be wise in what we do….

    Nations…….not Christian……but not necessarily all bad either…….kind of neutral…the realm of Common Grace. America is not Holy….the state shouldn’t be trying to function as the church as far as prayer, coinage….. But just because it isn’t Holy doesn’t mean it’s evil either. It’s the restraining hand of Providence providing a venue for the gospel to operate…..we can be thankful about some things here……disgusted about others. I can be happy living here……I could be a lot happier living somewhere else…or maybe not. We’re pilgrims in the end.

    I think you’re doing a wonderful job making my argument for me. I thought we already went down this road and somehow in the end I was some kind of worldly pagan.

    But it seems to me…….you kind of get it here…..

    My two cents. Thanks for your time. And, I still enjoy the website……..I’m sorry I have so gravely offended some of the people here.

    Protoprotestant

  18. jonathan,

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding where you’re coming from, but your comment to Mark Wright seems very strange to me, especially since (from what I can tell) he’s advocating nothing but being salt and light and taking the gospel into the culture where God has sovereignly placed him. This is otherwise known as the Great Commission.

    The church, among other things, is for the purpose of equipping the saints for the work of the ministry, part of which is the ministry of evangelism. Certainly there is evangelism to be done within the church itself, but evangelism is especially a task that takes place outside the gathering together of the saints, in the public marketplace of human society.

    I went back and re-read Mark’s comment to see if there was something untoward, compromising, or otherwise “worldly” about his thoughts, and from the very limited information available (and while he and I might disagree about the actual necessity of going to a bar and having a coke in order to share Christ), it looks to me like he’s engaging his God-granted sphere of influence with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Now I can’t tell you if Mark Wright is an Arminian, a Calvinist, a Roman Catholic, a Mormon, or a Jehovah’s Witness, but if he’s not a cultist or an apostate, and if he trusts in the Christ of the Holy Bible, and he’s sharing Him as the Way, the Truth, and the Life – the Lord and Savior of all those who trust on Him as He has been revealed in the scriptures – then I say praise the Lord for a bold believer who trusts in the gospel as the power of God unto salvation, and who’s unafraid to lift up the name of Christ among men.

    Engaging the world doesn’t equal compromising with the world, otherwise there’d be no such thing as apologetics, or even evangelism itself. Thanks be to God that He didn’t eschew condescending to walk among, live alongside, and even lay down His life for wretched, unworthy, miserable sinners.

    3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. – Titus 3:3-8

    In Christ,
    CD

  19. Dear protoprotestant,

    You said:

    “Good night, you can listen to that and then you beat up on me for what I said in the other thread????”

    I have no idea what you are talking about. I don’t believe I’ve ever corresponded with you on this blog anywhere. Perhaps your comment was directed at someone else. If so, it would behoove you to address that person so as to not lead everyone else into confusion wondering who you were talking to and what it is you’re talking about.

    Sincerely,
    – Pilgrim

  20. Oh sorry about that. I guess I messed up. I thought you were one of the people commenting on the other thread. I saw a few of the same names, but didn’t realize you were the one who posted this article. My apologies.

    So…you can ignore the portions referring to the other thread…those comments would not be directed to you…….

    I will be more careful in the future.

    Proto

  21. Just a warning CD, Go back and read it again and maybe you’ll get what I was saying. I didn’t say Mark was an apostate. But it was a warning that is so often missing in the Churches that proclaim to be that of Gods but in reality are no more than country clubs shoveling out a social gospel that gives way to what was in this article. And I have been there Cd, I know. That’s why they are more interested right now in saving our country from the commies instead the things of God. Go talk to them, most are neocons and want to flatten Iran right now with some more shock and awe. Not knowing that there is brothers and sisters in Christ living their lives out just as Lot was in his day. And it was Abraham that pleaded for the righteous. Don’t see much of that on FOX with their religious right glued to the TV waiting for more shock and awe do we?
    Yes those who preach patriotism normally do leave out the love of the truth of the Gospel, thats a fact. Thats why they leave out living Godly as well. Could it be they think they might step on someones toes and the offering plate mite be less full if they did? Where is their heart?

    Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
    Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
    Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
    Tit 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience…….
    Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
    Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    Just as Abraham did, not only by faith, but by putting faith into action.

    Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
    Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    And DC where ever God sends us in this life, were ever we walk we should be proclaiming His truths and the Glory that is in His work in Christ Jesus. Proclaiming and professing His righteousness to men everywhere. No, we’re not to hide our light under the bed. ;-)

  22. Thanks for this writing.
    Im very worried and concerned for my own country, which also has alot of problems and issues ,many of them same as you have.

    greets from sweden

  23. Reblogged this on Defending. Contending. and commented:

    An article written by Pilgrim 4 years ago, and even more applicable today.

  24. Reblogged this on Truth2Freedom's Blog.

  25. Romans 13:1-2 NASB, “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.”

    Romans 12:6-8 NASB, “Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly…he who leads, with diligence…”

    Colossians 3:23, 24 NASB, ” Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.”

    U.S. Constitution, Preamble, Article 1 Section 1, “We the People of the United States…do ordain and establish…All…Powers herein granted…”

    Call me crazy and I see the above Scriptures plus the fact that we are rulers in a sovereign nation as a mandate that we are responsible to be informed, active and diligent in political matters.

    I also see those Scriptures as a mandate for me to speak, reason and work towards policies – within the nation where I’m accountable as a ruler – that will maximize opportunities for believers to share faith, provide aid to others at home and abroad, to have personal liberty to practice faith and to protect innocent individuals from harm.

    Christians have historically been a primary influence on the United States and the nation is (even to this day) one of only a handful of exceptional nations in the history of the world. If was founded on the principle that because God is the highest source of law, that therefore the law is static while enacted and applies to everyone, even leaders. It also assumes that all rights are God given and reside with individuals, who in turn tell the government what it can and cannot do. Almost every nation in the history of the world before the United States has been diametrically backwards on both of these points, and the fruits of that backwardness has inevitably been the literal destruction of individual lives, liberty and property.

    We are not a “Christian” nation per say, but we are a nation where Christianity has been afforded amazing influence and outreach.

    Has our nation been turning away from it’s Christian heritage and it’s history of individual liberty? Unquestionably. We are now at a point where God must (and has actively started to) judge our nation for the slaughter of 57 million innocent children. And that’s been a symptom (Molech) of our worship of sex and self empowerment (Ashtoreth and Baal). The spirit of self empowerment has now become enshrined in openly practiced neo-paganism and militant secularism, and the fruit of that has been a steady destruction of societal norms and traditional values.

    I don’t think anyone can deny that the United States has been on the decline for a long time now.

    But I see the decline as partly symptomatic of the problem of believers in the U.S. refusing to be salt and light. Our lack of involvement in civil society is de facto giving this nation over to the powers of darkness and when a nation is given to darkness, bad things are unnecessarily allowed to happen.

    I believe I’m responsible to vote, reason and warn. And to govern diligently in so far as it concerns doing my own small part.

    “each of us is to exercise them accordingly…he who leads, with diligence”

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