93 Comments

Which “Jesus” do you worship?

False idols of who Jesus is come in all shades and styles, but there’s nothing that’s created more false idols of who Jesus is than man’s own heart.

Unfortunately, most people have created a “Jesus” of their own liking, fashioned in the recesses of their carnal minds (or created by some religious leader that they’ve submitted their lives and entrusted their souls to) and that’s the “Jesus” they serve and worship. Ironically, these false idols of “Jesus” bear a striking resemblance to those who created them (and their desires), but very little–if any–resemblance to the Jesus of the Bible.

Since there are so many versions of “Jesus” circulating out there I’ve decided to create this easy to use (but non-exhaustive) resource as a way to help you know which “Jesus” you worship based solely upon what you believe about Him.


If your Jesus . . .

. . . is the sibling of Satan; born from a sexual encounter between God the Father who was once a man (Adam to be exact) and God’s own daughter Mary; who was crucified because he practiced polygamy; who did not pay for the sins of the world on the cross but in the Garden of Gethsemane, whose sacrifice was insufficient since you still have to work your way to heaven and in some cases your own blood must be spilled to redeem yourself; and who could not maintain his church but had to commission a lying, swindling, occult-dabbling, womanizing, pedophiliac, adulterer, Freemason, con-artist who was known for telling tall tales (whose own account of the first vision changed several times), to “translate” an ancient and “inspired” book that needed almost 4,000 corrections, changes, and alterations since it’s first publication, and to “restore” the church that your Jesus couldn’t keep together  . . .

. . . then you worship the Mormon Jesus.

Momron Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is a created being (Michael the Archangel to be exact); who is not God but a god (thus making you a polytheist); who will condemn you for celebrating your birthday or giving your child a life saving blood transfusion; who did not die on a cross but on an upright stake; whose body is unaccounted for and still missing today because he did not physically rise from the dead but only raised “spiritually;” whose sacrifice was insufficient because you still have to earn your own salvation; and who–in spite of accepting worship from those around him–does not want you to worship him . . .

. . . then you worship give obeisance to the Jehovah’s Witness Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is most commonly depicted as a helpless infant or dead upon a cross; who is bound to take orders from his mortal mom who he created (the Creator subjecting himself to the creation); who has to share his glory with the mortal human Mary; who is our mediator between his earthly, kindhearted, and loving mother and his angry, vindictive father; who is sacrificed again and again every week (in spite of the Bible saying He was sacrificed once and for all, never to be sacrificed again) because mortal human priests have incredible power to call him down from heaven and magically turn him into a cracker and wine (again being subject to his creation instead of the other way around); and whose sacrifice was insufficient because you still have to merit your own salvation . . .

. . . then you worship the Roman Catholic Jesus

Roman Catholic Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is a hippie-like figure who no longer considers the Bible as a final authority but questions the very Scriptures and their perspicuity, even going as far as to justify such sins as homosexuality; who no longer differentiates between sheep and goats, wheat and tares, truth and error, light and darkness, the broad road and the narrow path, but now warmly accepts Roman Catholicism, Lecto Divina, and other false religious traditions and mystical practices  (it would be judgmental not to); and whose motto is “come as you are and you can stay that way too because only Pharisees would tell you otherwise,” . . .

. . . then you worship the Emergent Jesus.

Emergent Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . wears an Armani suit while driving a Lexus; whose sole purpose for existence is to show you by example how to line your pockets with greenbacks if you simply sow a financial seed of faith; who confirms your salvation by such outward expressions as being slain in the spirit and speaking in tongues; and who says that if you don’t accept these strange doctrines then you’re just not anointed enough . . .

. . . then you worship the Charismatic Word of Faith Jesus.


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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is a registered Republican; wrapped in the American flag; whose purpose for coming to earth was to show us that the gospel is salvation through legislation; who wants us to set up God’s kingdom on earth by our efforts and political action; who exists to help your son win the football game and your daughter win the dance recital; and who doesn’t mind sitting on the shelf till you’re ready to pull him out at Christmas, Easter, weddings, funerals, national tragedies, or whenever you want to feel good about yourself . . .

. . . then you worship American Jesus.

American Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . never mentions your sinfulness or his holiness, but instead emphasizes having a good time in church with a rockin’ praise band; boasts of a fun atmosphere for kids; has a relevant message from the latest Hollywood movie; and offers free coffee and donuts in the lounge . . .

. . . then you worship the Laodicean Jesus (see also Mega-Church Jesus below).

Laodicean Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is a Hawaiian shirt-wearing, big-teeth smiling, latte-drinking-while-preaching, motivational speaker peddling the message that God’s greatest hope for mankind is that they reach their full potential by finding their purpose in this life and living that best life now . . .

 

. . . then you worship Mega-Church Jesus

Graven Image Jesus


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If your Jesus . . .

. . . considers praise music and CCM to be the two sacraments of the church; considers a membership in a Christian CD music club to be evidence of sanctification; emphasizes the church praise band’s practice sessions over that of church Bible study, prayer, evangelism, and holiness; suggests that the church is a place to showcase one’s talent for rockin’ a guitar for God; and who believes that music “reaches people” in a way that the gospel can’t . . .

. . . then you worship Musician Jesus (aka Golden Calf Jesus).

Musician Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . believes public school teachers, Christian psychologists, the church, the lead pastor, and especially the “youth pastor” are all responsible for your child’s biblical and spiritual upbringing, development, nourishment, and maturity (everyone but their own parents); who teaches that peers of the same age group (and often the opposite sex) are the best mentors and role models for your children; whose “youth ministries” are most commonly identified by lock-ins, pizza parties, bowling nights, and lots of drama (both kinds); and who considers that those best qualified to pressure your child/teen into repeating a “sinner’s prayer” is the twenty-something hip dude who’s never raised any children of his own, has way too much gel in his hair, and knows more about MTV and U2 than theology and his Bible . . .

. . . then you worship Youth Pastor Jesus.

Youth Pastor Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is an ascended master (one of many); who does not believe in sin, holiness, or redemption; and is accepting of all religions because he himself is just one of many paths to enlightenment . . .

. . . then you worship New Age Jesus (a.k.a. Oprah Jesus, not to be confused with the Robert Schuller Jesus or The Shack Jesus).

New Age Jesus

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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is ok with the use of profanity, the twisting of parts of the Bible to promote masturbation and other parts of Scripture to create mandates for wives to commit certain sexual acts with their husbands; who winks at the copious amount of vulgarity, sexual innuendos, double entendres, and all things worldly; enjoys being depicted as a disc jokey on t-shirts; and whose premier preacher makes fun of “fundamentalists” (those who take the Bible seriously), mocks those who take responsibility for the education of their own children (because they take the Bible seriously), and considers Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, and Robert Schuller his spiritual brothers . . .

. . . then you worship the Mark Driscoll Jesus


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If your Jesus . . .

. . . is the sovereign, mighty, holy, King of kings, Lord of lords, chief cornerstone; the Alpha and Omega; the First and Last; the Son of God; God in the flesh; a completely sufficient Savior; eternally existent; Creator of all things; who is, who was, who is to come; who became flesh; subject to no human; reigns over all; was born of a virgin; who shed His priceless Blood for His elect; who laid His life down upon a rugged cross, took that life up again–body and all–on the third day, snatched the keys of Hades, and removed the sting from death; who is the Prince of Peace, the Great Physician, Immanuel, God with us; whose yoke is easy and whose burden is light; who is a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, who is the faultless, sinless, unblemished, Lamb of God; the only mediator between God and man; the narrow gate; the way, the truth, the life; the only way to the Father; and who is worthy to receive glory, and honor, and power forever and ever, Amen!. . .

. . . then you worship the Jesus of the Bible.



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See also:

How Do You Read Romans 1:16?

Woe Unto You

93 comments on “Which “Jesus” do you worship?

  1. AWESOME BLOG ROLL !!

    EMERGENT CHURCH HERETIC SERMON JAM OSTEEN !

  2. From Joshua 24:15 …choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve…I will serve the Jesus of the Bible. Thanks, Pilgrim. Haven’t thought about those “forms” of idolatry before…..well done.

  3. That pretty much sums up the variety of “gods” we’ve created in our self-centered, sinful, feel-good world. Good post! ~ktf~ John

  4. Man.

    Why did ya hafta go and mention coffee and donuts? I was with ya until then. Everything else – ROCK-ON! But coffee and donuts? Man.

  5. WOW! Nice job Pilgrim!!!

    I’m sure the list will grow too.

    It’s sad that we can see the other jesus’ that others worship, at times easier then Emmanual.

    Without the head the body’s dead, now matter how much movement and warmth remains.

  6. Very true in your descriptions! Sadly, most people still won’t see that they are worshiping a god of their own making but will insist that they are worshiping the true god. One day, though, they will see the error of what they have done in not worshiping the true King of kings and Lord of lords. By then it will be too late…

  7. Excellent post Pilgrim, well done. Jesus said “I AM the way. I AM the truth, I AM the life” He alone is worthy of all honour, glory and praise. Amen!

  8. YES YES! What a great post!

    I will HT this over at my blog – but I wanted to get some info firston Driscoll who you say “considers Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, and Robert Schuller his spiritual brothers . . .”

    again- wonderful post!

  9. Thank you all for your comments and encouragement.

    Matt Johnston, the following links will direct you to more info on Mark Driscoll calling Robert Schuller, Joel Osteen, and Rick Warren “brothers.”

    Schuller

    Warren

    Osteen

    - The Pilgrim

  10. I worship the Jesus of NO ADD ONs!

    No ‘Christ plus’ (whatever).

    No Christlus ‘a pope’.

    No Christ plus ‘your obedience’.

    No Christ plus ‘your seriousness’.

    No Christ plus ‘your decision’

    His obedience is enough.

    His seriousness is enopugh.

    His decision ( for me) is enough.

    The cross alone, through faith alone.

  11. ……………thru infant baptism alone ;) right?

  12. Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, SOLO CHRISTUS, Soli Deo Gloria

    EPIC POST!!!

  13. How about the lying Jesus
    The Jesus that gives you eternal life one minute and takes it away the next.

    How about the weakling Jesus.
    The Jesus that is so weak that He can’t hold onto those that are His.

  14. Baptism does not save anyone. And we do indeed have to place our faith in Christ to be saved. That is what Scripture says.

  15. Glenn and Matthewm

    No offense, but out of respect to Pilgrim (and the “Purpose” for his post) I deleted your most recent comments on this thread–comments regarding the efficiency of baptism on our salvation. I mean no disrepect to you guys, but I believe that is a subject that has been debated by those involved on another thread. This, however, is not the place to conduct such a discussion.

    Speaking of “Purpose”…how about the “Purpose-Driven Jesus” who only came to earth to show people how to earn points toward their eternal salvation through doing “good works.”

  16. I gave up the Seventh-day Adventist Jesus who says you will receive the Mark of the Beast if you go to church on Sunday, did not complete the atonement at the cross but is “blotting” out sins in heaven now as he judges every name to see if the people who trusted in Him are WORTHY by their obedience to the law, is called Michael the archangel (like ther JW cousin’s Jesus) and who will in the end place all the sins on Satan (the scapegoat) and he will in the end.. take away the sins of the world.. Lots of dangerous Jesus imitations out there. This one gets overlooked alot.

  17. Thanks, Pilgrim, for the excellent post.

    It makes it obvious that it is no longer sufficient to talk to someone about “Jesus”. We need to be very specific about His character, attributes, and person to define Whom we are speaking about. To preach a false “jesus” is to deny the true Jesus. It also defines who a “believer” is. A believer in a false “jesus” is therefore not a believer in the true Jesus, and as such, we are commanded to not be yoked with them spiritually. Thus, unity of fellowship, worship, and prayer with such a one is forbidden.

  18. I sent this article to a Yahoo group I moderate with this note:
    Any redeemed child of the living God who has been confronted with Mormon missionaries or Witnesses knocking on the door understands something of the importance of defining terms, as these two cults have a “Jesus” who differs from the biblical Jesus.

    But we must be on guard against ALL false teaching, some of which is much more subtle than Mormons or Witnesses. As I was taught in the Army Corps of Engineers, one cannot build even a tactical building on bad soil. It’s not always easy to determine if the soil you have is good (dirt) or bad (clay or organic materials). The field test to discriminate between these types of soils is to put a small sample of the suspect soil in your mouth, between tongue and teeth. If the soil was slick and smooth like powdered sugar, the soil was clay or organic. If it was gritty like salt, the soil was good dirt – fit for building upon.

    As the Bible tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, we much test everything – sometimes with close attention to detail, as with the soil test.

    Here from http://defendingcontending.com/2010/03/14/which-jesus-do-you-worship/ is an examination of presentations of “Jesus” in various circumstances, contrasting the false ones (some of which are not at once easily recognized in person) with the biblical Christ.

    Know who you worship and always be ready to defend the biblical Jesus – for He is worthy of our worship and our deepest desire to know and love Him.

  19. Excellent point DavidW.

    I think this is part of the reason why Romans 10 reads the way it reads. From the way Paul’s exhortations with the Corinthians reads, they were perhaps being taught of another Jesus, maybe one that didn’t resurrect? Therefore, when we tell people of Jesus, just like how DavidW mentioned, it is imperative that we go into detail so that there’s no room for them to “insert” their “brand” of Jesus into the teaching.

    Not to get the thread off subject but one of the toughest things about dating in this age is all of the people professing or claiming to be Christian. True colors, however, come out when you start to profess the God of the bible and they get offended! I’m not sure but I think I was called a Pharisee last night.

    Charis kai Shalom

  20. What the world needs is the TRUE JESUS

  21. So glad to see the ‘American Jesus’ on the list….this will make the heads start rolling- I hear the gnashing of teeth!

  22. This was a great post. Thank you for taking the time to some up all the false Jesus’ there are. When reading through the description of the true and only Jesus of the Bible, it brought great joy to my soul. Would you mind if I turned this into a tract? I believe it could be a great witnessing tool.

  23. Joe:

    Yes, by all means, have at it.

    - Pilgrim

  24. This has to be the BEST article EVER!!!!!! Thank You!

  25. You’ve got it down perfectly!

    This is great! Thank you!

  26. Hey how about “I worship the Jesus of the Bible but I still live how ever I want”. There are countless Christians who really love God but have no commitment to a church, they don’t even know how to properly react to the presence of God. The street guy and the once a week church goer react the same in God’s presence. They both are saying ” I don’t know what to do…I feel a little out of place here” they are both LOST. I’m willing to bet this article, as good as it is, was writen by a Pentacostal.

  27. I worship Jesus the Son Of God.

  28. Great article! Lots to think through. I have enjoyed passing it on for friends to think through. Blessings Brother.

  29. I’m willing to bet this article, as good as it is, was writen by a Pentacostal.

    No, Tim. Not even close.

    - Pilgrim

  30. “written by a Pentacostal (sic)”

    That is very funny. Hope the bet was not a large one! Tim, may I recommend you read some of Pilgrim’s other material and you will see that Pentecostal and The Pilgrim are poles apart!

  31. Hey Tim, that would be the Tongue-speaking, KJVOnly, Holy-rolling Jesus. *ahem*

    Good post Pilgrim. =)

    I’ve noticed that most professing Christians want:

    the Lamb, not the Lion
    the servant, not the Master
    the baby, not the King
    the humanity, not the diety of Jesus
    the Savior, not the Lord
    the Friend, not the Judge
    the Love of Christ, not the Holiness of Christ

    People want a god that is like themselves. That isn’t the Only God our Savior. HE is holy, holy, holy.

    Psa 50: 21 These things you have done, and I have been silent; YOU THOUGHT THAT I WAS ONE LIKE YOURSELF. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.

    Isa 40:25 To whom then will you compare me, that I should be like him? says the Holy One.

    Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and THERE IS NONE LIKE ME, 10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I WILL ACCOMPLISH MY PURPOSE,’

  32. Awesome! Really well done.

    The images of Jesus are obviously (well) manipulated from existing artwork but the JW one illustrates what they really believe.

    Aside from the lies they tell, the JW depiction of Jesus and the two thieves tied to the “torture stake” does no justice to the real physical and bloody torture Jesus went through before He got to Calvary.

    The three of them look like they had just spent the morning at the spa and took a shower before being put to the stake.

    Thanks.

  33. I’m just saying that if God showed up in your church,(if you have one), what would you do? What does it look like? Have you seen a testomony of someone who’s heart is really changed by the fire of God?

  34. So, I missed it. Was one of those Jesus’ the RIGHT answer?? Or is the answer “None of the above?”

  35. Deejer67,

    You’re kiddin’ right? Did you look at the last entry in the post, prior to the comments?

  36. Tim,

    “What does it look like?” – What is “it” that you are referring to?

    A person’s heart is not changed by the fire of God – but rather by the Spirit of God……..The Holy Spirit.

    Fire, I know is a term quite popular in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles. But for the most part it is an incorrect interpreatation of John the Baptist words in the gospel of Matthew.

  37. Man, this is really hard-hitting. There are so many people out there talking about “Jesus”, but when you hear Him described and you read the Bible in comparison you wonder who they are talking about — it certainly isn’t the Jesus of the Bible. This article made me add this site to my feeds: http://thekingdomcome.com/aggregator/sources/30

    Keep em coming, but all glory to God!

  38. Thank God for clarity. I’ve sat in churches and listen to what is being taught however what I read and what is revealed to me in the Bible is totally different. Thank you for setting me free from the world’s way of thinking.

  39. Mathew Johnston,

    “It”, in regards to the day God Himself actually visits your church sevice, “what would IT look like?”
    By the way John the Baptist had his head chopped off because his ministry had to go. John’s ministry and Jesus’ ministry couldn’t coexist. John’s ministry was repentence, directed at Jews, (the already saved ones).. Jesus’ ministry was the Holy Ghost and power, He changed lives.
    His power, the Fire of God is what burns out the hurts and junk in our lives. Repentance can’t remove anything from your life, if it could then why are so many Christians getting divorced for example, or even walking away from God entirely? Christianity has become only about morality which is empty and powerless, I know lots of moral unchurched people. Yeah they need repentence, but do I? do you still need John the Baptist? I thought this was about Jesus, but nobody cares about His ministry, they are all hung up on John.

  40. EMERGENT CATHOLIC MORMON JW SERMON JAM VIDEO TRACT

  41. MRWBBIII,

    Thanks for putting this post into an MTV-style presentation. It will be most useful in reaching some who dare not read. I shall make room for it on my web site, having sent out the OP to many folks.

  42. GREAT!

    YOUNGER GENERATION IS AUDIO/VIDEO ONLY:))

    WBBIII

  43. MRMBBIII,

    Sad but true. Shame on parents for not teaching their children to love to read. My kids are learning as young adults how delightful it is to read – a great blessing to their mother and me.

  44. I HAVE 16 NEPHEWS & NIECES ALL PRIVATE CHRISTIAN OR HOME SCHOOLED, HUGE BLESSING ALL AROUND!

  45. Tim said, By the way John the Baptist had his head chopped off because his ministry had to go. John’s ministry and Jesus’ ministry couldn’t coexist. John’s ministry was repentence, directed at Jews, (the already saved ones).. Jesus’ ministry was the Holy Ghost and power, He changed lives.

    First, the Jews John preached to weren’t necessarily all “saved.” As he cried out in Luke 3:8–”Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.”

    Second, John “got his head chopped off” because he incurred the anger of Herod for daring to point out Herod’s sin of sleeping with his brother’s wife.

    Third, the reason John’s ministry “had to go” was summed up by the Baptizer’s own words–”I must decrease so He can increase.” John came to proclaim the Messiah–but now, John did not need to proclaim Him since Messiah was walking about openly.

    Fourth–Jesus didn’t preach repentance, huh? Well, you might want to turn to…

    Matthew 9:13–”But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

    Or Mark 1:14-15–Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” (NOTICE–Jesus preaching repentace AFTER John was put in prison).

    Or Mark 6:11-12–Jesus said, “And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them”…So they went out and preached that people should repent.

    Or Luke 13:3, 5–”unless you repent you will all likewise perish…unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

    Or Acts 17:30–”Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.”

    I could go on, but I think you get the point.

    I thought this was about Jesus, but nobody cares about His ministry, they are all hung up on John.

    Ummm…who’s “hung up on John?” Or is repentance just not in your plans, and you need an excuse to hold on to your sins, so you say we don’t care about Christ? because that’s what your words seem to indicate.

    I’m just saying that if God showed up in your church,(if you have one), what would you do? What does it look like? Have you seen a testomony of someone who’s heart is really changed by the fire of God?

    Uh…yeah…I have. Maybe you should talk to the guy that comes to our church in the projects–a fellow that turned his back on a life of selling drugs with a .44 in his back pocket. He lived under a set of bleachers at an abandoned school rather than go back to his old lifestyle. Yeah, why don’t you tell him, to his face, that his life “hasn’t been touched by God.”

    Or, you could tell the woman that turned her back on a life or prostitution she “hasn’t been touched by God.”

    Or the woman who grew up Apostolic, not knowing the truth about the deity of Christ, and almost left us for good until we showed her the real Christ from the Scriptures–and now she teaches our 5-8 year olds. Tell her she “hasn’t been touched by God.”

    Or…well, I think you get the point. You could tell the dozens of other people who are not the people they used to be–tell THEM they “haven’t been touched by God.” Look at their lives and tell them they need to…I don’t know, whatever it is you think they need to do.

  46. One of the best posts I have read in awhile! Going to keep this alive on my blog for a long time. Very important message in this.

    Great work!

    In Christ,

    DG – Duct Taped Theology

  47. Of course Jesus preached repentance, but he brought more than that with His ministry. He said “repent” to the pharisees & they thought they were the clean ones, but it’s not about clean and unclean. It’s about having room for God and His kingdom.

    John said, “repent you’ve been bad”.

    Jesus said, “repent for what’s coming”. (Which was His kingdom, not judgement)

    There is more to it than repentance of sins. Ok your saved now what? Just keep repenting for your sins over and over, make sure to stay clean? Sounds pretty stuck on John to me.

  48. Matthew Johnston
    “Fire, I know is a term quite popular in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles. But for the most part it is an incorrect interpreatation of John the Baptist words in the gospel of Matthew.”

    Yep. A lot of them, if not all, like to take Matthew3:11 out of context to make the “fire” that John speaks of a good thing. They try to make it something a Christian should want or seek after. Such as some kind of ecstatic experience or feeling. When what John is really talking about when he uses the word “fire” is hell.

  49. Acts 17:30–”But now [God] commands all men everywhere to repent.”

    Notice what he said? God commands ALL MEN, EVERYWHERE (Not just Pharisees) to…what? “Repent.”

    Does that sound like God is “stuck on John”?

  50. Yeah repent, meaning to change the way you think. They were to except the new move of God which Jesus was introducing to the earth. Baptists are the only ones I know that think repent means stop sinning and become religious like them.

    Jesus brought Holy Ghost and Fire, the fire is for changing people from the inside out beyond just getting saved. The fire here is definetly not Judgment for his second coming. If Jesus was a schizophrenic I could see it happening but I’m pretty sure He’s not.

    “I’m baptizing you here in the river, turning your old life in for a kingdom life. The real action comes next: The main character in this drama–compared to him I’m a mere stagehand–will ignite the kingdom life within you, a fire within you, the Holy Spirit within you, changing you from the inside out. MSG Matthew 3:11

  51. Ah!

    Tim has a MSG “Bible”.

    That explains his confused theology.

  52. Does the MSG “Bible” promote using Rev3:20 for telling people to “ask Jesus into their hearts”? ; ) I haven’t read it. Other than what RW quotes in the PDL. That alone is enough for me.

    Mat3:7-10 fire is judgment
    Mat3:12 fire is judgment

    keeping the context going “fire” in Mat3:11 is judgment. John is also speeking to a mixed audience. There are believers and the non believers. The believers will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. The unbelievers will be baptized with fire.

  53. Maybe the fire is for believers, but it is the trying fire of persecution to burn away our impurities for our sanctification. It is a baptism with the Holy Ghost AND fire – not the Holy Ghost IN fire (as is commonly misspoken by “charismatic” Christians.)

  54. Amen, Ministry Addict. Works will all be tried by the fire of God’s judgment. Saints will be tested, sometimes by fiery trials; awaiting a great reward. Lost folk who are not elect have only one fire to look forward to: God’s wrath.

    The false fire of the experiential groups is simply one of many ways man tries to replace God with works.

  55. Yeah repent, meaning to change the way you think. They were to except the new move of God which Jesus was introducing to the earth. Baptists are the only ones I know that think repent means stop sinning and become religious like them.

    Oh, I get it. So we don’t have to stop sinning. We don’t even have to change how we think about sin. We can keep on indulging in our fleshly lusts, going on like lost sinners–and the only repentance we need is to “accept this new move of God.” So, you would tell the guy I mentioned before–who got rid of his guns and stopped selling drugs–you would tell him, “Hey, it’s all good. You can keep selling drugs and sleeping around. Just accept this new fire from God.” Does that sound about right? Because that’s what your words indicate.

    However…..

    (I know. More of that darned ol’ Scripture to interfere with your opinion).

    1st John 2:1–My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
    Romans 6:12-13–Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
    James 1:15–Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
    Romans 6:14-16–For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
    1st Corinthians 15:34–Awake to righteousness, and do not sin.
    1st John 3:6-8–Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

    I could go on, but I think you get the point.

    Now, what’s this about us not having to stop sinning? I guess the apostle Paul and the other writers of Scripture were still “hung up on John” and hadn’t yet “accepted this new move of God.”

    Tim, you really need to put down “The Message” and pick up a real Bible. “The Message” is not a translation–it is Eugene Peterson’s attempt to mushify and squishify the Scriptures.

  56. Fourpinter,

    No, your friend should not continue his old life, I didn’t. I also come from a very rough lifestyle. My point is that after repentence there is more to being a believer than to make sure everyone has all thier sins checked off.

    As for the new move of God, it seems you know something about it. Indulging in lusts! Certainly not, if you accept this new fire, there is no need for sin conscousness. The desire for sin fades away, there is no struggle to do the right thing anymore because of the fire inside. Falling into a religious rut and resisting a new move of the Spirit of God is no different than when Jesus was rejected and killed by religious leaders, its no different today.

    Obviously I have to defend myself here but the reference to the message bible just gives a different wording, thought it might help.

    John baptized with water.
    Jesus baptized with fire.

    …is that hell fire He used to baptize with?

    You could easily have a great water service, but could you put on a fire service. It’s funny, you people are so afraid of the fire, yes you should seek after it. God loves fire, its in his eyes.

    Don’t stop at John, of course that’s the popular, cleaner gospel. Go for the fire if your not too scared.

  57. Tim
    Are you saying you don’t sin anymore, therefore no need for repentance. Please clarify

  58. Tim,

    You really need to make up your mind. Are we supposed to stop sinning–or not? Here are two of your quotes [all emphases mine]:

    There is more to it than repentance of sins. Ok your saved now what? Just keep repenting for your sins over and over, make sure to stay clean? Sounds pretty stuck on John to me.

    Then you go on to say:

    Indulging in lusts! Certainly not, if you accept this new fire, there is no need for sin consciousness. The desire for sin fades away, there is no struggle to do the right thing anymore because of the fire inside.

    So, what do we do? Do we say, “I don’t need to turn away from my sins”? Or do we say, “I need to turn away from my sins”?

    An even more important question–what do YOU consider to be sin? And are we supposed to stop sinning? And what the heck is this “new fire” you keep talking about? It’s funny, in the first comment you posted you said,

    I’m willing to bet this article, as good as it is, was written by a Pentecostal.

    And yet your more recent comments make you sound like some ultra-hyper-charismatic who can’t seem to stop talking about this “fire” (whatever the heck that’s supposed to be). What IS this “fire” you keep talking about? The one that we’re supposedly so “afraid” of? Is it some kind of Todd Bentley thing? If it is, then I can see why you’re so confused about what to believe. I don’t think that man has seen the inside of a Bible in years.

    It is NOT some “fire” that “cleanses us.” It is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin (John 16:8-11).

  59. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

    -Hebrews 12:28-29

    Any “new move” that promotes a lack of fear of God, and that says that believers can get “fired up” about God without reverence and Godly is fear, is not really a “move of God.”

  60. To Tim:

    What you are saying sounds very familiar to how I once thought when I was a young Christian in a Charismatic fellowship. “All those dead religious Christian Pharisees are missing out on the power God wants to empower them with. If only they would seek His power, rather than focusing on being dead to sin all the time. Why are they so “afraid” of that Holy Ghost fire?” (I once thought)

    As the Lord put me through years of hardship, and I had only Him and His word to lean upon to survive, my attitude and understanding gradually changed. I began to see that repentance is a lifestyle. It is a prerequisite to having that relationship with God in which God could use me in His service to do His will. My will had to be broken before He could even use me, let alone empower me.

    You speak of a “new move of the Spirit”. I was told that, too. A lot. But apart from Pentecost, I don’t see any focus on that in God’s word. What I do see, as I found to be true in real world Christianity, that the spirit wars against the flesh (daily), and the flesh wars against the spirit (daily), and the two are contrary to each other (Rom. 7, Gal.5). Which is why Jesus said any who desire to come after Him must deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him DAILY (Luke 9:23). So, in order to be that vessel usable to God, we are commanded to DAILY deny our flesh and follow Him. Thus repentance is a daily behavior. It is not an accounting system where sins are debits and “good works” are credits. Repentance is putting to death the old human nature itself (“the flesh”), which is what drives us to sin against God. Submission to His will is a daily behavior. As the child of God does so, he is used when, where, and how the Lord will use him.

    Seeking after power, even spiritual power, is but another manifestation of the flesh. When power is what we want, when power is what we desire, it should tip us off that our focus is on ourselves. Our focus must be to seek to live in obedience to His word, to be mere vessels for His use. Whether we are vessels of “honor” or mundane, utility vessels, doesn’t matter. It’s however He wants to use us.

    I am not afraid of God’s fire, or His power, flowing through me. But I do know that my own will, (with its pride, arrogance, and foolishness) will merit me disciplinary action from a loving Father, Who will use His unlimited power to chastise and humble me. I never forget what happened to Nebuchadnezzar, and so many others who forgot just Who God Almighty is.

    The power of God is a changed life, not flashy demonstrations. A life transformed from arrogance, self-will, power-focus, personal benefit focus, fleshly, worldly, looking-out-for-number-one, hedonistic, proud, sensual driven existence,….to a life of humble submission to God’s will, is the most miraculous, and most powerful thing imaginable. Because, apart from God’s miraculous power, such transformation is impossible.

    Tim, I encourage you to also chuck your “Message Bible”. It is a cheap, ego-feeding, ear-tickling, perversion of God’s holy word that will not provide you with the spiritual nourishment you will need to grow in Christ. Get an NASB, NKJV or some other more accurate translation.

    Tim, be careful that you are not led to follow a different Spirit, a different Gospel, or a different Jesus, than what is defined in God’s Word.

  61. One at a time please. One. At. A. Time. :)

    Todd Bently? ah No. sorry nice try.

    Being exclusive to one translation which I am not, is not the best. Just reading a translation from a Jew hater might need to be researched a little further than how is reads off the King James Version. Make sure its God’s word not Martin Luther’s word. But obviously we have to start somewhere.

    It seems as though there are two options here.

    1. Level headed and preach repentence. (necessary)

    2. Out of control, and flailing around with no foundation. (flakey)

    But what about,

    3. Level headed and preach repentence, with restoring God’s honour, worshiping with all your strength. Which might mean using your body, not just your mind (cause I know God know’s the thoughts and hearts of man). And yeilding to God’s Spirit, letting Him control the service not man. (regardless of denomination)

    I know this will be hard to comprehend, I probably don’t expalain it the best, but it does work. With a God fearing humble Pastor who is not controled by a mob of legalistic Christians ready fire Him if he doesn’t say it just right. It does work.

    One without the other is incomplete.

  62. Tim:

    I would agree with your #3, with some clarifications. Level headed and preach repentance: agreed. Restoring God’s honor: agreed. In fact, standing in defense of God’s word, His revealed truth, His character, His person, is what this site is all about. Worship (the Lord God Almighty) with all your strength: agreed. Yielding to God’s Spirit: agreed. Letting the Holy Spirit be in control: agreed.

    This is not hard to comprehend. As for the pastor, he may not say it “just right” to every hearer. But he must be biblically sound in what he does say. He needs to be pleasing to God in his behavior (as required by God in His word). He needs to be qualified, again according to the Scriptures.

    But this is all getting away from the topic of this post, which is: which Jesus do you worship?

  63. Just reading a translation from a Jew hater might need to be researched a little further than how is reads off the King James Version. Make sure its God’s word not Martin Luther’s word.

    OK, that made absolutely no sense, and I have no idea what Martin Luther had to do with anything we’re talking about–so let’s skip that.

    2. Out of control, and flailing around with no foundation. (flaky)

    This seems to be your approach. The way you keep “flailing around” with your statements would indicate you have no foundation. I’m really trying to understand you, but there doesn’t seem to be any cohesiveness in your comments.

    Plus, how can you say that encouraging people to turn away from sin is “legalistic”? That is a command we find all through the New Testament.

    I don’t think I can converse with you any longer, because I can’t make heads or tails of what you are saying. I’ve asked you to be clearer, but your statements have only gotten more muddled. Farewell.

  64. Well so much for talking to Tim, but like so many out there that I have conversed with they can’t let go of their beliefs of another gospel, why because they have believe a lie. And as they do I did, and told that to be baptized and walk an isle as a child to be saved and then again but just a little older I was lead in a prayer after some weepy story to make a decision for Jesus and to ask him into my heart.
    Yes as life went on I found this irresistible urge to live out the desires of my heart no matter how much they hurt others that were around me or my neighbors. I had this urge to want things that I couldn’t have. Things that shined and things that would take me over the edge and get me high. I wanted things that would make me look good and stand proud amongst my fellow man. But when I read that thou shalt not covet, or thou shalt not commit adultery, or that thou shalt not commit murder and then the anger inside me would rage against my fellow man to do someone harm, or use the lords name in vain, I would remember those words I use so long ago and I would remember that God was obligated to me because I invited him into my heart I had said those magic words. Oh and don’t forget I was baptized as well.
    Yes I had faith, faith in what I had did, and those who had lead me in those works of the flesh would say of me later, that I had just back slid, but no matter what, I had wrote down in a hand held new testament some where lost, who knows where, and gone from my life that there was a date wrote inside of those works I did so long ago.
    And like those others out their depending on dead works I was no more a child of God than the pig in a wallow.
    But then, God in his mercies showed me that there was no hope in those works, he showed me that I was deserving of his punishment to be cast out and away from his glory because there was no work on earth that I could do to redeem my self to him. The reason I couldn’t resist the urge to commit sin like all of us are is that we’re born into sin.
    But why, why? Why would a righteous and holy God come to someone like me a sinner and show me his son for what He really is, God incarnate, crucified for sins, risen in glory, making intersession before God the Fathers throne. Why would he cause me to fall in fear and repentance of his righteous judgment that I so deserve. Why Because of His Grace. You see it is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance and causes us to seek his forgiveness not of works. Yes we still have that earthly flesh that we have to put down daily. But there is one difference, not only does he call us but he justifies us through the work of Christ his son but he gives us his Spirit that leads us away from those things that are of the flesh and takes away our heart of stone.
    Oh how could I ever seek anything else of this world or of man to give me pleasure, over knowing Him the only true God that has created the heavens and the earth and the seas and all that is in them, How could anything else matter aside from him my creator and now the savior of my soul, Oh to the praise of his glory.
    And why can’t others come to him as he prescribes? Because his word tells me in oh so many places that they can’t a side from Him and his calling and a side from Him giving them His Spirit and newness of life, born again by Him, He that controls even the very elements that hold us together. Yes;Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. But its not possible is it? Not when His spirit guides us in all truth. Yes you must first repent!

    Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
    Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    Oh and to make it clear, when was I saved about 2000 years ago when my Lord made intersesion for me before a righteous and holy God who has given all power and domain to the Christ to judge this world with righteousness. Repent!
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.
    Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God,
    Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
    Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

  65. This is really enlightening and so true in many areas, even for those (myself) who profess to be Christians and try to live the life. I can see where my motives may have been imperfect before the Lord. This helps for apologetics and witnessing too.

    The only thing I don’t understand is (according to this site) what is wrong with Benny Hinn, Robert Schuller, Rick Warren, and Joel Olsteen? All these people are Godly ministers (though not perfect) they are serving the Lord, winning people to Christ and training people for ministry.

    You say ‘Purpose Driven Life’ is a book teaching how ‘to earn your salvation.’ But I disagree. I read most of it and it is about ‘living a life of purpose because of your salvation,’ such as bearing fruit.

    As for the ‘Charismatic Word of Faith’ movement, I do agree that the prosperity message has been overdone and manipulated at times. But people are realizing that and becoming more sound in their teachings. Every one of us would be lying if we said we did not want to be healthy and prosperous. But we should also be content if we have to do without.
    About the Holy Spirit, people do not ‘get slain in the Spirit or speak in tongues’ as a result of their salvation -confirming it. But these things are a manifestation of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. If we walk in holiness, worship the Lord and come into His presence, we will experience these things, such as the prophetic.

    Blessings to all in the name of JESUS CHRIST – OUR SAVIOR.

  66. Sharon:

    You asked,

    The only thing I don’t understand is (according to this site) what is wrong with Benny Hinn, Robert Schuller, Rick Warren, and Joel Olsteen?

    Here are some links to get you started.
    SCHULLER:
    http://defendingcontending.com/2009/08/30/a-glimpse-into-the-theology-of-the-man-mark-driscoll-calls-brother/

    HINN:
    http://defendingcontending.com/2008/04/17/benny-hinns-false-prophecies/


    WARREN:
    http://defendingcontending.com/2010/04/08/beware-of-false-prophets-warren-piper-and-the-legitimization-of-heresy/

    OSTEEN:
    http://defendingcontending.com/2010/01/22/as-if-we-needed-more-proof-that-joel-osteen-is-one-of-those-false-teachers-the-bible-warns-us-about/

    There’s much more information out there on these guys on the internet and even on DefCon (just use the search engine) that you can find out about if you’re willing.

    - Pilgrim

  67. The thesis of this post just keeps resurfacing as a core issue, morphing ever more cleverly, as I read comments from professing believers on various issues in the blogsphere.

    It used to be (for the most part), we “tested” whether one was a fellow believer, a fellow follower of Christ, by their doctrinal stand, and their behavior. We’ve become well aware of the obvious, glaring errors of cults and false “Christian” churches (as defined above).

    But more and more, we’re seeing those who proclaim 1) a rock-solid doctrinal statement (complete with a very orthodox view of the Trinity, and the deity of Christ), 2) a sound basic soteriology, 3) every detail of eternal security minutely dissected and affirmed, 4) affirmation of the 5 Solas, in essence, all the right doctrine proclaimed.

    Yet, we’re seeing “another jesus” being put on the Cross, and placed at the right hand of the Father. When described, this “jesus” is not the Jesus of the Scriptures. His character is different, His righteousness has been altered, His holiness has been diminished, he is slacker in who or what he approves of, the gospel has been re-defined with his approval. Identity theft of the only Savior, the only Way, Truth, and Life has taken place, so that an impostor has been put in place of the true, Biblical Christ, and all the sound doctrine of Scripture transfered to him. Thus, we can no longer go merely by doctrinal affirmations, but must clearly and accurately identify the Christ we are talking about. Whatever else we may affirm from Scripture, if it is not the Christ that is identified in the whole of the Bible that we are following and believing in, then all our doctrinal correctness is merely academic.

  68. I didn’t get a chance to read the whole thing, but I read a lot of it and I thought it was fantastic. I’ll be posting it on my Facebook page and hope many will get a chance to read it. Congratulations on a job well done! God bless!

  69. Is there a passage that talks about “worshipping a different Jesus?”–or something to that effect?

  70. “Is there a passage that talks about “worshipping a different Jesus?”–or something to that effect?”

    2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
    2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
    2Co 11:5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.

    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

  71. I’m confused by the “Mark Driscoll Jesus” from above. I’ll admit, right off the bat, that I’m not familiar with his early ministry/methods, but in some of the messages I’ve recently heard from him, he seems very solid in his doctrine and appropriately practical in his application (at least in speech)–I don’t see any of the elements listed above as part of what he’s communicating. Is the description from above from earlier in his ministry?

    Also–is it possible that some of the descriptions of different “Jesuses” (sp?) above (not including the cults and/or the extremes listed in some of the other categories) are simply strategies people have used to tell the world? For example, are youth pastors’ strategies or pop Christian musicians really portraying an entirely different Jesus or are they, as I Cor. 3:11-15 suggests, building with a variety of materials which will, on day, be tested by fire? A different Jesus and a misguided strategy are a far cry from one another. According to the key scriptures throughout the book of Acts, we find a constant reflection/update on results: was the church growing? Following this example, if music is leading to results of some kind–discipleship, for example–because of the way it’s presented to people who otherwise might not have heard, isn’t that a type of building material? Isn’t the foundation still Jesus Christ–the Jesus of the Bible? There is no indication that a divergent, sinful lifestyle be adopted–which I would imagine a different Jesus would offer me.

    I do understand that the best deceptions come equipped with much truth, so perhaps I am missing something in my analysis of these things. Coming from a Word of Faith background, I see some value in the “emotional” aspect of Christianity. After all, we are present within this human condition and there is a flame to fan. However, I also see much twisting of Scripture used eisegetically to almost excuse any lifestyle or “pursuit of happiness” since “new creations” can’t possibly want or think anything contrary to God (oh wait–how does that Lord’s Prayer go again…?). On the other hand, many of the more conservative, fundamentalist churches go to a similar extreme wherein they sing the praises of assurance without regard to such Scriptures which warn of testing ourselves to be sure we’re in the faith, or he who stands firm to the end shall be saved or go and sin no more (in reference to known, lifestyle-sin).

    I wouldn’t contend that these are different Jesus’s (sp?–I keep trying)–well, the Word of Faith Jesus, maybe–more than they are, perhaps over-emphasizing one aspect over another and if either does not allow for a balanced emphasis on teaching all aspects of Christ, the Gospel, etc., then perhaps it is a new Jesus they’ve invented for themselves. There are many tensions throughout Scripture, and there is such a fine balance between understandings, and human tendency seems to be to get caught up in our lust for extremes–it’s easy to feel that we’re in a tangled mess of semantics and emphases within the bounds of the church!

    In Acts we see a balance (again, right?!) of careful, strategic planning and of the Spirit’s guidance/promptings. It’s not totally logical, and it’s not totally Spirit-obvious, and yet the Spirit is constantly at work in thinking apostles/believers. The church today is a body made up of many different parts. And we know that there are wheat and tares planted throughout. I guess what I’m asking is, exegetically speaking, how are we to interact with the world–how to we reach out to unbelievers? Is it appropriate to do it through pop music? Through a “seeker-friendly” service? Through a youth group retreat? Through public/private schooling? Through pushy Bible-thumping? Through living a life separated from unbelievers? Through websites? Through “Christian” books? And if there is an over- or under-emphasis on a presentation within the bounds of any of these avenues, does that make the whole thing an invented Jesus? Is there room for human error so long as personal study is held in high esteem through the individual priesthood of the believer? Are we all building on the same foundation–Jesus Christ–though building with various materials which will one day be tested by fire? Or are some strategies/emphases incarnating the antichrist? Is there anyone who can answer all my ridiculous and never-ending questions?! :-) Thanks ahead of time…

    btw…thanks @fleebabylon for the references–helpful in my ponderings!

  72. ScriptureBacker-

    When we take all of the warnings recorded in the word of God about false Christs and their teachers we get a lot better picture of our day and age. Someone openly preach a different jesus and gospel such as mormons. Others the line is blurred, becuase they use the same words we do, but they have different meanings. The word of God says we know them by their fruit / actions.

    Tit 1:14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.
    Tit 1:15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
    Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

    Luk 6:43 “For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit,
    Luk 6:44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush.
    Luk 6:45 The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
    Luk 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

    If Driscoll were just some grunge teenager that was saved off the streets we could bare with him as a young brother that needs to be sanctified and mature in the faith. As it is though he has brought this condemnation on himself by becoming a teacher and refusing to repent of his crude gimmicks and impure conduct. What must his idea of Jesus be – certainly not what the apostles recorded. You will know them by their fruit.

    Eph 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.
    Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
    Eph 5:3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
    Eph 5:4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
    Eph 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
    Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

    In Christ -Jim

  73. ScriptureBacker:

    Regarding your question:

    “I’m confused by the “Mark Driscoll Jesus” from above. I’ll admit, right off the bat, that I’m not familiar with his early ministry/methods, but in some of the messages I’ve recently heard from him, he seems very solid in his doctrine and appropriately practical in his application (at least in speech)–I don’t see any of the elements listed above as part of what he’s communicating. Is the description from above from earlier in his ministry?”

    Sounds like you’re not very familiar with Mark Driscoll and his tricks. The same “jesus” Driscoll refers to as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and Savior of mankind that he may refer to in one sermon, he turns right around and defames by referring to Him as a joker who goes around “telling knock knock jokes” to miscreants who love His sense of humor, that He was a party-goer (from his book “The Radical Reformission”). Or that He “needs Paxil”, “needs sensitivity training”, is “cruel” (from his “Vintage Jesus”), and elsewhere describes Jesus as basically a fleshly, worldly degenerate. This “jesus” of Driscoll is certainly not the All-Holy, All-Pure Jesus, God the Son, Who is altogether sinless and without fault.

    The “Driscoll’s jesus” described in Pilgrim’s original post above is accurate based upon a summary of his sermons and books, to which Driscoll has never repented.

  74. In Acts we see a balance of careful, strategic planning and of the Spirit’s guidance/promptings. It’s not totally logical, and it’s not totally Spirit-obvious, and yet the Spirit is constantly at work in thinking apostles/believers. The church today is a body made up of many different parts. And we know that there are wheat and tares planted throughout. I guess what I’m asking is, exegetically speaking, how are we to interact with the world–how to we reach out to unbelievers? Is it appropriate to do it through pop music? Through a “seeker-friendly” service? Through a youth group retreat? Through public/private schooling? Through pushy Bible-thumping? Through living a life separated from unbelievers? Through websites? Through “Christian” books? And if there is an over- or under-emphasis on a presentation within the bounds of any of these avenues, does that make the whole thing an invented Jesus? Is there room for human error so long as personal study is held in high esteem through the individual priesthood of the believer? Are we all building on the same foundation–Jesus Christ–though building with various materials which will one day be tested by fire? Or are some strategies/emphases incarnating the antichrist? Is there anyone who can answer all my ridiculous and never-ending questions?! :-) Thanks ahead of time…

  75. ScriptureBacker,

    Your questions reveal several interrelated concepts. I think a return to some basics would be helpful. Please bear with me as I explain.

    In order to build upon the same foundation, we need to clearly identify, and agree upon, that one foundation. As our teaching about Jesus must be true to the Scriptures, so does our representation of Him if we claim to be followers of Jesus Christ. Thus, if we proclaim MOSTLY biblically-true things about Jesus, and also preach something which is not true of Him, we have just preached “another Jesus”. If we claim to represent HIm, yet in His name, practice what is contrary to the Scriptures, we are misrepresenting Him, and thus proclaiming to the world another Jesus.

    Let me illustrate what I mean here so there’s no misunderstanding. We all have human failures, we are not sinless due to our fallen nature. But if we PRACTICE sin, or practice what is contrary to the Scriptures (foul language, getting high, joining in prayer/fellowship with those of unscriptural beliefs, worldly/fleshly behavior, etc.), and yet say we are representatives of Christ (“Christians”), we are thus lying about Christ to the world by our lives, and thus presenting “another Jesus”. Those who are truly of Christ first have a right understanding of Who the biblical Jesus is. Then they bear the fruit of living in accord with the Scriptures, are yielded to the Spirit, have crucified the flesh with it’s passions and lusts, and preach the true Jesus of the Scriptures. Merely believing in Jesus, even doing many good works in His name, yet practicing what is contrary to His Word, invalidates our claim as Christians (Matt. 7:21-23).

    A Christian is one who is a part of Christ’s body, the church. The Greek word for “church” is ekklesia, meaning “called-out ones”, that is, called out of the world. He is to be holy, for God is holy (1 Pet.1:16). “Holy” from the Greek “hagios” meaning unlike the world, but like God. The Christian is not to be conformed to this world, but transformed (Rom.12:2).

    So, in light of the above, how does the Christian, holy and separated unto God, called out of the world, transformed and no longer like the world as he was before, reach out to the unsaved world with the Good News? Do we become again like them to reach them? No, then we would be unfaithful to Christ and cease to be Christians in the biblical sense. Do we isolate ourselves away from the unsaved world? No, then we would not be fulfilling our commission. On the contrary, we go as missionaries, as representatives of Christ, to the unsaved world around us. We SHOW them transformed lives by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling within, and we PREACH to them the uncompromised Gospel truth as given in God’s Word.

  76. HERE’S IS THE FRUIT OF THE MARK DRISCOLL VINE RIGHTLY THROWN INTO THE FIRE !

  77. if your “JESUS” is not “GOD”.. then i tell you.. wrong definitely WRONG! Father,Son,Holy Ghost is “ONLY ONE”..

    and there are MANY verses in the Bible that confirms that HELL IS REAL.. thats not a “PARABLE”..

  78. This is absolutely wrong about the Catholic Church which is the only church founded by God made man, Jesus Christ. Holy Communion is “supernatural” and even written in the Bible (in John Chapter 6) which so many twist to their own destruction. The Blessed Mother of Jesus Christ is to be respected and honored and rightly so and she was born without original sin.

  79. Dolorosa – I see you have been completely misled by the false history of the Roman Catholic Church. The wooden-headed view of John 6 (which is not even about the Lord’s Supper) is exhibit 1. Mary was born dead in her sin and dire need of the savior she would give birth to – and she learned this and declared it so! The Roman Catholic Church did not even begin in infancy until the 4th century.

  80. Dolorosa,

    Christ says to partake in the Lord’s supper ‘in remembrance of Him’ {Luke 22:19}, He does not say He is actually present in the bread and the cup. This is false teaching from the RCC with no scriptural support. Even when they try and twist John 6:54 as literal, you have to remember the Bible forbids drinking blood {Lev. 7, Deut. 12:23} Also, where cannibalism is mentioned, it is a result of spiritual apostasy {Lev. 26:29, Deut. 28:53-57, here in particular it is listed with the curses that result from disobedience}. God’s word does not contradict, so Christ is not endorsing drinking blood, which is forbidden, or eating human flesh. To interpret John 6:54 literally is a grievous mistake, it must be taken in a symbolic sense of His sacrifice on the cross. In other words, you must trust in what He has done solely and completely for the saving of your soul, nothing added, nothing taken away. Matthew Henry comments “It has been wretchedly misconstrued by the church of Rome for the support of their monstrous doctrine of transubstantiation, which gives the lie to our senses, contradicts the nature of a sacrament, and overthrows all convincing evidence. They, like these Jews here, understand it of a corporal and carnal eating of Christ’s body, like Nicodemus, ch. 3, 4. The Lord’s supper was not yet instituted, and therefore it could have no reference to that; it is a spiritual eating and drinking that is here spoken of, not a sacramental”.

  81. What a super important post! Well done Pilgrim! Would be good if this were posted on the wall in every Christian church. It’s high time the true Jesus is separated out from all the counterfeits being worshiped and preached today.

  82. This was amazing! :) I hope you add the Urantia cult’s teaching to the list also. Been coming across a lot of its members lately and they’re absolutely convinced that they’re still believing in the Bible’s Jesus. Not so at all. But thank you for this. I will share it with others. God bless you!

  83. I don’t know what I could possibly add other than a heartfelt “THANK YOU” to Pilgrim and all who have contributed with their comments here. The lack of sound exegesis and the utilization of flawed hermeneutics in the culture we’re surrounded by is alarming. And the results are horrifying.
    I pray for those who are lost in the many false Jesus movements, and I fear that they may be the exact ones that our Lord was speaking of in Matthew 7:21-23 (21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’).
    Thank you again.
    Jim

  84. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made………
    He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    But as many as received him, to them HE GAVE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe on his name:
    Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    John 1

  85. @ Glenn: 1 Pet. 3:21 says, “And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” But you say that baptism doesn’t save anyone. In one hand I have the word of Glenn, in the other hand I have the word of God. Nope, they surely do not weigh the same.

  86. You could add Pentecostal/Charismatic, Seventh Day Adventist, and Church of Christ. They all deny the sufficiency of Scripture and have aberrant theology. You forgot to mention that Mark Driscoll believes that Jesus had sinful desires!

  87. @James Beadle: 1 Peter 3: 21 is not referring to WATER baptism!

  88. Amen! Most make Jesus out to be a Savior of some, or a Savior of themselves in this generation of lovers of self. We have been wounded and afflicted for 2 days (2000 years). Come, let us return to the Lord for He has torn us, but he will heal us. He has wounded us for 2 days (2000 years), but will bring us through the fire on the third day. I WORSHIP THE TRIUMPHANT, COMPLETELY VICTORIOUS JESUS WHO WAS GIVEN ALL THINGS BY THE FATHER TO ACCOMPLISH HIS WILL OF LOSING NONE. NONE WILL BE LOST. SOME ARE SAVED BY WATER, SOME ARE SAVED BY FIRE, BUT NONE WILL BE LOST IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS GOODNESS AND HIS WILL. WE PRAY THY WILL BE DONE WITHOUT DENYING HIS POWER TO DO IT!!! LET THE WHOLE WORLD KNOW HIM!!!

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