I am not offended by anybody who takes a stand for Christ. The reason for my response is because people can take issues of conscience to a point where they try to place those unnecessarily on others who should have an equal right of individual soul liberty.

MacArthur can study the issue of Christmas and comes to a different conclusion than others here do. Each of us are responsible before God for what we allow in our homes. If my family chooses to give gifts on a date in December and we can do so with a clear conscience before God having also studied the issue, we have the liberty to do so. On the other hand, if you choose not to give gifts, that is also your right as a Christian to avoid or disregard the holiday. However, neither of us have the liberty or the principles of Scripture to castigate the other for the choice made in this particular issue.

I agree with your statements on doctrines and missions. While I personally disagree with certain aspects of GFA, you choose to support them. Again, as with Christmas, we each make decisions that obviously affect our families. Yes, people raised in their own culture do make the best witnesses (or missionaries) to their own people; however, there is still a place for the work of teachers to national churches and pastors.

The problem here is that missions is always relevant. If there is no missions, there is no spreading of the gospel message. The issue of Christmas will NEVER be more relevant than the message of missions. That is to place strictures on the Word of God that are nowhere to be found.

If I have misunderstood your comment or if I have not clarified my own, feel free to respond. Thanks for your response.

If one goes into missions with the screwed up doctrines that are taught by the likes of Piper, Driscoll, Warren etc. they’re mission is likely to be doomed from the start because they are not going to be teaching from God’s word solely. Instead they will be teaching from what has infiltrated their thinking which has been mixed with twisted scripture instead of on what God alone says to teach. That is why these topics are more relevant BEFORE the missions topic get addressed.

I know a woman who recently went to Thailand on missions and has succeeded in teaching the people in her tribe how to carve pumpkins for helloween and pray to the river, asking IT’S forgiveness for abusing it! (I know this because I’ve seen her updates on facebook, not by what other’s have said so it’s not by gossip that I’ve learned about this.) She faithfully attend a well known “Bible” college to learn about how to go about her work in missions. This college also has mandatory reading and studying of books like The Shack and Brian McClaren’s New Kind of Christian. They are not read as a warning to avoid this doctrine but how to work it into your own life!

Is this what they mean by being culturely relevant?

I’m all for missions. Our family supports several missionaries and children through Gospel For Asia.
I believe that the people raised in their own culture make the best witnesses to what God is capable of doing.

If you are offended by my stand for Christ and His Holy word alone (Solus Christus, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Soli Deo Gloria) feel free to email me and I will leave this post.

In His Service…

Thanks for your gracious response. There was no offense taken. My intention was to point out the necessity of having Christlikeness in our words and thoughts toward those who may very well disagree with us on issues that are not clearly delineated in Scripture and in which there is the matter of individual soul liberty.

You are correct in your point that many times we do things without knowing why we do them. However, when study and research is done, the decision must then be left to the individual conscience of each true believer as they are guided by the Holy Spirit. I hope this clarifies and thanks again for your response.

Every place I looked that spoke about the first day of the week, I noticed there was NO place that said we were to worship on the Sunday. I have read places where it states that either Constantinople changed worship to a Sunday, other places state that the early Christians changed it to Sunday to remember the death of Jesus Christ. I haven’t seen anything that would denote that Jesus rose on Sunday but I have read how the disciples went on the first day of the week, early in the morning, to visit the grave. They also met in the upper room IN FEAR on the first day of the week not because they were waiting for the Lord to show up.

As I have spent all my life worshiping the Lord on Sunday, I have no issues with continuing it. If Christmas was started by the catholic church and worshiping on Sunday was started by Constantine (who was the first pope in the catholic church and not to say he definitely did it but there is a pointing in that direction) then maybe worship on Sunday was started by pagans. Does this mean that we ditch it all and start our own thing?

I have to say that we were at the point that some of you are now. We completely ditched Christmas and Easter (if you didn’t know Easter is a celebration of Ishtar or otherwise known as Isis. If anyone ever watched “Wonder Woman” back in the 80′s, you would remember that Lynda Carter, the woman who played that part, used to say, “O mighty Isis” to turn into Wonder Woman and it all ties in together.) These are holidays started by pagans but the Bible still is very clear in Romans 14:

Rom. 14:5-23, “One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

“He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

“For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

“For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

“So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

“Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.

“I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

“But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

“Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

“For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

“For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

“Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

“For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

“Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

“And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”

As The Desert Pastor so gently put it, “If one is not careful, they can cross the line though in condemning another true believer in a matter that has NOTHING to do with the matter of salvation.” As this does not affect our salvation, we need to be careful that we don’t go overboard on it. If that is your conviction not to celebrate Christmas or Easter or Sunday, you do it to the Lord. If you celebrate these days than do it to the Lord because it is to the Lord that you stand or fall. We do appreciate what you have to say about it because some people have major concerns and need to come to an understanding in faith because whatsoever is not of faith is sin!

There are many other issues at stake which we address which are rarely commented on or addressed. It is normally only select topics where people come out of the woodwork to ride their own personal hobbyhorse. They are free to do so, but I am afraid it speaks volumes when the stomping all over a particular subject all the time is more important than addressing things like missions or vital doctrines.

For what it is worth, the majority of the missions articles written here are the least viewed and searched for of all the blogposts on DefCon! Why is Christmas, Driscoll, Piper, the MD, etc. so much more important than missions?

Seeking Charity and a Christ-like Spirit,

The Desert Pastor

Diane, you are correct, most “christians” cover their ears/eyes/mouth, shake their heads and pretend that they do not hear/see/and refuse to speak. It will not matter on Judgment Day if they fain “ignorance”, they will be accountable nontheless.

This issue should make true Christians research everything that they have been taught as “christian”, the traditions of men, etc.
For instance…. New Years Celebrations, Valentine’s Day, Easter (Ishtar), all have roots in pagan revelry.

I basically just ignored Truther comments because his/her whole write up seems to be works driven and I find strong hints of emergent thoughts in his/her writings, most that are not “Truth”er.

So true! Ignorance is bliss.
Not for a Christian, however.

The only thing that stood out for me as well in Truther’s above comment was the part about avoiding foolish questions.
It is also my opinion that it is not a foolish question regarding christmas. It is certainly something a lot of people do not wish to discuss…that is what I am finding.
When I mention to friends, family, acquaintances: Do you know what the word Christmas means and why do you say Merry Christmas? The response is either, I don’t know, what do you mean?, blank stares or it’s just what we say. I don’t think it is ever foolish to question why one does or says something.

We decided that if we are going to celebrate the birth of our Lord it will be done during the Feast of Tabernacles in the fall of next year. This has been deemed the most likely time of His birth. Scripture says nothing about celebrating His birth, only to remember His death with the taking of the Last Supper. THIS we will definately do during the Passover festival.

God bless you all as you continue to seek His face in all this.

I was reading Titus and this book has much good to say about these things. Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:10-11 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
And Spurgeon has to say about this last verse:

“Avoid foolish questions.”
–Titus 3:9

Our days are few, and are far better spent in doing good, than in disputing over matters
which are, at best, of minor importance. The old schoolmen did a world of mischief by
their incessant discussion of subjects of no practical importance; and our Churches suffer
much from petty wars over abstruse points and unimportant questions. After everything
has been said that can be said, neither party is any the wiser, and therefore the
discussion no more promotes knowledge than love, and it is foolish to sow in so barren a
field. Questions upon points wherein Scripture is silent; upon mysteries which belong to
God alone; upon prophecies of doubtful interpretation; and upon mere modes of observing
human ceremonials, are all foolish, and wise men avoid them. Our business is neither to
ask nor answer foolish questions, but to avoid them altogether; and if we observe the
apostle’s precept (Titus 3:8) to be careful to maintain good works, we shall find ourselves
far too much occupied with profitable business to take much interest in unworthy,
contentious, and needless strivings.

There are, however, some questions which are the reverse of foolish, which we must not
avoid, but fairly and honestly meet, such as these: Do I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?
Am I renewed in the spirit of my mind? Am I walking not after the flesh, but after the
Spirit? Am I growing in grace? Does my conversation adorn the doctrine of God my
Saviour? Am I looking for the coming of the Lord, and watching as a servant should do
who expects his master? What more can I do for Jesus? Such enquiries as these urgently
demand our attention; and if we have been at all given to cavilling, let us now turn our
critical abilities to a service so much more profitable. Let us be peace-makers, and
endeavour to lead others both by our precept and example, to “avoid foolish questions.” (from his morning and evening devotionals)

Just some encouragement and some light exhortation. Thank you for your time reading this.

I shudder to think how the Muslims are changing the world – Europe in the 16th century comes to mind.

Regarding the food down under – Christians are not forbidden from eating food prepared as you describe. We are free to take it with thanksgiving unto our God, knowing the Muslim god is nothing more than a dead man.

Peace in Christ from another who is struggling to determine if, what, and how to celebrate the birth of our Lord.

On a side note, when we discuss not eating foods/meats offered to idols, I learnt a number of years ago that almost 100% of chickens in Australia are killed Halal style, so as Muslims can eat them. Many abattoirs are also killing other animals Halal style and even have Islamic “Holy” men (oxymoron if you ask me) employed in the abattoirs so that all meats can be “blessed”.

I know all of this as my husband owned a butchery and most meat, (poultry especially) came in marked as having been killed Halal style. It was near impossible to source alternate products. Also, most airlines only buy and serve meats that have been “blessed” in this manner as many of their passengers are Muslim and must be catered for.

I contacted several members of Parliament in a bid to make this known and an awareness raised, as I think we have a right to know that our food has been cursed. It was treated as though I was another insane fundamentalist Christian.

I for one make sure that I pray God’s blessing over the food I eat and serve to my family.

I’ve been following this discussion from a distance till now. Our family (my husband, myself and our children) left this “season” behind this year as well, much to the displeasure of both our families. One brother told other family members we’d converted to Judaism and by next year we’d be muslim if we kept acting like this. LOL – C’mon! We just want to live our lives by what the SCRIPTURE says…. not what man nor RCC has decreed to be so. We want to honor Jesus as our Saviour and worship HIM only!
Here are a few links that I’ve found helpful.
Thanks, Unprofitable Servant. We’re already fans of Last Trumpet but hadn’t read this before :)

http://www.messianic.com/articles/liesofxmas.htm

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/1143/Christmas-Pagan-Origins-of.htm

I haven’t completely researched everything out there yet either but know enough to know that “Christians” do NOT belong in “christ-mass”!

God bless as you continue looking to honor Him alone.

I remember reading something like that as well…something about people present at the mass (there was a name given to them but I don’t remember) who were being ‘dismissed’ before the Eucharist part of the mass as they could not partake, or something like that, maybe they weren’t Catholics yet. I remember reading that the dismissal meaning may have come from these people being dismissed or sent out from the mass and that came to be the name for the whole service—the mass, although I don’t think there was a specific reason given as to why this transpired. I don’t remember the site which discussed this, as I have looked at so many in the last month.
Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated.
I am so very thankful to my Lord and Savior that I am not in that false manmade religion. I grieve for those people, my brother included, who are so deceived.

I have read on some Roman site that mass did, at first, mean to dismiss or end. As I understand it, the blasphemous Roman Eucharist is the last part of the worship and therefor symbolizes the “mass”. Since this is the focal point of the Roman worship service, the entire worship service slowly became known as “the mass”.

I did not make a note of where I read that.

Thank you for the information and I do appreciate it.
It seems that it is a certainty that it is a Roman Catholic invented word, right? Mass simply and definitely means the Catholic mass, not a festival, or a celebration or a feast. Christmas means that the Roman church holds a mass (several ) on the day to celebrate the birth of Jesus, right?
I have also read somewhere that mas means: to send, or dismiss and therefore Christmas means Christ sent. I guess I’ll have to keep looking.

Thanks, and God bless.

From the Roman web site: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

This:

The word for Christmas in late Old English is Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, first found in 1038, and Cristes-messe, in 1131. In Dutch it is Kerstmis, in Latin Dies Natalis, whence comes the French Noël, and Italian Il natale; in German Weihnachtsfest, from the preceeding sacred vigil. The term Yule is of disputed origin. It is unconnected with any word meaning “wheel”. The name in Anglo-Saxon was geol, feast: geola, the name of a month (cf. Icelandic iol a feast in December).

I agree with you and I too cannot say Christ and mass together, knowing what it implies. (I am an ex-catholic.)
I am trying to find out for sure when it was first used and when the RCC invented the word.
Thanks!

X-mas

I solved your math problem:

X = Christ

- Jeff

p.s. j/k

I am still baffled by the defense of this holiday. I understand if you have or are doing it in ignorance (as a Christian), but once you’re shown the “light” on a subject, you are obligated to address it!

http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/

One caveat to this program is that it is believed by historians that some similarities between Mithraism and Christianity as noted in the video are not due to Christians borrowing from pagans (as a woman in this video stated), but rather the pagans borrowing from the Christians.

Part 1 of 5 can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT-Mms2t1hA

p.s. One more caveat, in the video there is an “expert” from All Souls Church NY, one who mocks the Puritans about not wanting to have too much fun and hence banning “Christ” Mass (a common attack against those wanting Scriptural fidelity and no Romanism & worldliness). But, this is to be expected from one who attends a “church” that “…is an accessible congregation … dedicated to providing an environment in which all people feel welcome regardless of race, sexual orientation or physical ability.”