Quotes (653)

voddie-baucham I believe one of the greatest crutches in the church is the nursery. Parents who have neglected to train their children have very little encouragement to do so when there is a place to hide them. The father who should be up in arms by the time he gets home from church because of the embarrassment to which his child subjected him ends up going home with a clear conscience while the nursery worker takes a handful of aspirin.

- Voddie Baucham

20 thoughts on “Quotes (653)

  1. I totally agree.
    The nursery is just a pre-cursor to “Jr. Church”, and children never learn to sit in church.
    Another aspect is, they do not hear the testimonies of the saints, the singing of the hymns and the preaching of the Word.

  2. Voddie puts it so much better than I ever did, but the Lord gave my wife and me the wisdom to have our small children with us in church – no nursery or children’s church. The church is aping the government school system, positing itself as the experts for children, taking a burden off the parents; and poisoning the family and helping dull the father toward his responsibilities.

  3. Voddie is right on. Thanks for publishing this timely quote, Pilgrim.

    When I was child we went to Sunday School, and it was aptly named. We memorized large portions of scripture and learned what the gospel really meant. There, we were also taught how to behave in the regular church service which followed, where we sat quietly with our parents through the entire thing. Even though I didn’t get much Bible training at home from my parents, we sure got it in church. Most of all, we were taught respect for the Lord.

    Nowadays, too many churches have little more than a glorified baby sitting service to offer our young people. No wonder children don’t take Christ seriously any more when all they ever see or hear of Him are watered down stories in books, with Him illustrated as just another cartoon character.

    Our church has started to change all that, thankfully. Children’s church must offer specific and structured Bible training, and the teachers must be accountable to the pastor. Youth group the same – no longer focused on pizza parties and Christian rock. The kids are expected to do some real service to the community now. I only hope other churches will begin to follow suit.

  4. Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

    -Joel 2:16

  5. This is so true and it goes well beyond children’s church. Youth pastors/youth groups, college and career groups, singles groups, old-age ministries, young married groups, etc. All these groups do, which firstly you will find nowhere in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, are to break up the body of Christ and create cliques totally contrary to the NT pattern of ONE body. And in so doing myriad Scriptural commands are broken such as elders teaching the younger, no novices as elders, parents teaching children, etc.

    The only “children’s church” should be at home where parents raise up their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord as commanded in the Word. Yet the church today would rather follow the pattern learned from our wicked society and the governmental systems (as Manfred noted). And why not since most churches are governmental bodies themselves.

    This pattern, as found in the government’s schools is to divide the family, keep the children from their parents, and totally subvert parental authority. So true is that which is learned from college where the young adults go out into the world with no accountability to sample all the sordid sin it has to offer. And it continues on into old age with retirement villages/nursing homes that remove the elderly from the young so their wisdom is never heard and death and dying are hidden from a vain society.

    This and more the church does daily and says it is of God. What a travesty. May we repent of our following the world and return to the NT pattern.

  6. I agree 100%. But what do you do when you church doesn’t agree? Is this an issue that should cause one to look for another church? What is such a church isn’t in your area.

    I’m a mom to 3 – age 4 and down. The two older sit with me in church (at the moment my husband has to work on Sunday, so I do put the youngest who is 9 months in the nursery).

    There are two moms in the church – both of whom have large families of 9 children – who often encourage me that I am doing what is best. However, many others make “suggestive” comments that the girls would be better off in the nursery. It is very frustrating and discouraging. They dont always sit perfectly quiet, but I do my best to limit the noise and movement, taking them out when necessary. Why is the solution offered by folks the nursery? Why isn’t anyone offering to help with my girls instead? Even saying, ‘if you have to step out with one of them, would it be helpful if the other one sat with me?’.

    I so wish there was a FIC in my area, but there is not

  7. Melissa,

    Grow not weary in doing well – what you KNOW is right and honorable in the sight of God. We faced well intentioned people who wanted to lead us astray when our children were young – deacons’ wives. Nobody in the church has the primary responsibility for your children – you and your husband do and the Lord holds ya’ll accountable for raising them in the nurture of His law.

    Stay in prayer and fellowship with those who encourage you and do not put stock in the nay-sayers.

    There’s more information that may be helpful here: http://www.thealliancereformation.org/

  8. This past Sunday, the “children’s church” was cancelled. Because of this, my wife stayed home. That is because our youngest child, 3, does not stay quiet and stay quiet for over an hour. Bringing him would have brought us 3 choices:

    1) Attempt to force him to stay quiet for over an hour – which is an unreasonable standard for a toddler.

    2) Try to keep him entertained and quiet – and not worshipping. Why be there?

    3) Let him scream, fuss, and fidget – now nobody is worshipping. Why be there?

  9. There is a solution.

    Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.

    It’s not the churches job to train children, it’s the parents job.

    The churches job is to train adults.

    Ephesians 4:11,12 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

    If the church you go to isn’t training you, it is in grave disobedience to the Word.

  10. RGF,

    Sorry to disagree with you. I could write a lot on this, but to answer your three points very succinctly.

    1. A toddler can play with his toys for an hour, watch way too much tv for over an hour, and considering I have two in the toddler phase of life – an hour is not an unreasonable standard. The standard has to be set by the parents and it begins at home.;

    2. & 3. – These points belong together. You have missed the point of what worship is. 1 Cor. 10:31 says that whatever we do, we are to do all to the glory of God. That includes learning to teach our toddlers about why, when and how we worship God with every aspect of our being, not just the hand-clapping 45 minute regimen on a Sunday morning. Teaching our toddlers the ways of God is also worship, and it pays off huge dividends in the end.

  11. RFG,

    As someone who’s children are grown and sits in a family integrated church, where I hear all the other people’s children make noise; let me encourage you to bring your children to church and sit with you all the time unless illness prevents it. It is MUCH better to hear small children than to realize that the absence of their noise means their parents are failing in a key aspect of their responsibility before God.

    All children are born sinners, and when one displays that nature, it reminds us older folks that we are sinners saved by Christ and have nothing to boast about in our flesh.

  12. RGF,

    You try to apologize for using “vitriol and hate” (your words) toward Unprofitable Servant–and then turn around in the very same breath and say Unprofitable “deserves” it. Well, when you tell us that someone “deserves” your “vitriol and hatred” (your words), then you can rest assured that it may be a while before any of your future comments appear on this forum.

  13. fourpointer,

    I am not one to discourage disagreement on issues of doctrine. Even when it gets heated.

    Paul had many heated disagreements in the book of Acts.

    With Peter and Barnabas just to name a few. With the latter, he had “no small dispute”.

    I’d rather deal with someone “speaking their whole mind” than being fake about how they really feel or think.

    In the end it’s your call, but I can handle whatever anyone has to say.

    I may be mad for a bit, but I get over it.

    It’s not primarily RGF’s fault for opposing the scripture, that blame falls on his pastor for not training the flock in the faith or contending for it.

    Also, I’ve been banned from a number of forums in the past for contending for the faith and casting down the imaginations of men that oppose scripture so I know how it feels.

    I’d rather “mix it up” and walk away bruised with everyones freedom of speech still intact.

    Freedom of speech is one thing I’m all for as who knows how long it will be until we don’t have it anymore.

  14. Unprofitable,

    I appreciate your sentiment, and your willingness to suffer spite from those who condone the ways of the world (Matthew 5:11; Luke 6:26). However, RGF’s comment (and his non-apology) violates our “Rules of Engagement”:

    4). DefCon does not appreciate or condone demeaning, harsh-toned, vitriolic, abrasive, coarse, condescending, vindictive, abusive, insulting, disrespectful and/or mean-spirited comments.

    While he may indeed have a right to think and to say such things, we also have the right to exclude him from the forum. As we have said in Rule of Engagement #2:

    2). You are a guest on this blog. Your ability and permission to leave comments on this blog is a privilege, not a right. If all you want to do is express how much you dislike what we say here, then don’t expect us to oblige your comment by allowing it to be posted.

    If RGF will not repent of saying that you (or anyone else for that matter) “deserves” his “hatred” (his words), then his ability to comment here will be severely limited.
    _________________________________________________________________________

    Well, RGF probably won’t read this, and has made his feelings abundantly clear. But here’s the bottom line: If you ask us to pull a comment that is, by your own admission, “full of vitriol and hate,” we will honor that request. But if you then go on to say that the person who was the object of said “vitriol and hate” deserves it, you are in effect saying that you deserve to hate that person. That is not an apology! That is the kind of language that will not be tolerated, as evidenced by Rule of Engagement #4 listed above.

    If you follow up those types of comments by ratcheting up the rhetoric and resorting to name-calling–do you really think that will get your comments posted? Think again! And, thanks to your final comment, in which you tell us all to “F” off, thereby showing your true colors–well I think it’s obvious that will get a person banned permanently.

  15. Hi fourpointer,

    I didn’t see the said comment you are speaking of as it must have been deleted before I checked this morning.

    Like I said, it’s your call.

    I just recall the horribly abusive speech that the prophets, Jesus and the apostles endured throughout scripture and the fact that they didn’t stop their attackers from saying what they said. They just responded with the truth.

    In the end, it is the speaker of such things that will have to answer to God for every idle word that they said.

    God Bless

  16. US,

    He was already in moderation, his comments being held pending approval. And yeah, after reading them and considering whether to allow them or not, I made the decision to not allow them through. But instead of taking a step back and rethinking his words, he decided to reply with an even harsher tone. His final words are better left unsaid–thus validating my decision. Let’s just say he remains unrepentant.

    I agree, they said even worse things about the prophets, and even about the Christ. But, the last thing I will say on this matter is this: we will not allow this forum to be a place for such conversation.

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

  17. RGF,

    I remember times when my daughter was little and she became quite unruly. On occasion we even needed to step out into the narthex for a moment. The moments always passed and as my daughter grew older these occasions ceased.

    The point is that your son needs to learn what Church is about. He needs to understand WHY we are quietly listening to the Pastor’s words. If you ‘reward’ his bad behavior by granting his desire to leave, then what kind of message are you giving him. How will he ever hear about God’s Word.

    Take charge of your son’s up-bringing. You are the head of your household and will be held accountable to the Lord for your faithfulness to your duty.

    Proverbs 13:24 “Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.”

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