What you are about to read is disturbing and shocking, especially if you have children who attend a church youth group. Please be aware that what is detailed below is happening in many churches in America, and may be coming to yours very soon. Prepare to be outraged.
Those churches who rely on their slick marketing schemes to “draw a crowd” have sunk to new lows as of late. This is especially evident in the area of the foreign-to-Scripture concept of the church youth group led by the ever-so-popular (and equally absent from Scripture) youth pastors.
For those who have no idea what kind of shenanigans have been going on in the name of “youth ministry,” here are a few samplings that DefCon’s addressed in the past:
- Whos’ pastoring the youth pastors?
- The problem with youth ministry today.
- A story of injured clowns and evil chickens.
- Another church sanctuary turned into a stage for a worldly dance exhibition.
But these past examples are mild compared to what’s taking place now. Countless churches are going out of their way to pander to the youth culture by means of the basest of juvenile humor (the very humor formed, cultivated, and driven by the world).
Because these so-called churches are constantly chasing after the hem of the garment of their elusive mistress of cultural relevance, they must constantly come up with something new, something more radical, something more shocking, something more like the world in order to attract and keep their “customers.”
But as with all fads, what was hip, cool, and relevant yesterday loses it’s impact tomorrow, so something even more vile, shocking, and wicked (yes, wicked) must take the place of yesterday’s flavor of the month.
To see this spiral into depravity I submit two articles for your consideration. One was written by a Christian journalist for a Christian news source from August 2002, the other was written by a secular journalist for a secular news source in September 2009.
The following is the 2002 article from World Magazine’s Gene Edward Veith:
Stupid Church Tricks
by Gene Edward Veith
Four sets of parents are suing a church in Indiana for what happened at a New Year’s Eve lock-in. A youth leader chewed up a mixture of dog food, sardines, potted meat, sauerkraut, cottage cheese, and salsa, topped off with holiday eggnog. As if this spectacle were not disgusting enough (let the reader beware), he then spit out the mixture into a glass and encouraged the members of the youth group to drink it!
Some of those who did, of course, became sick, whereupon their parents sued the church. According to the Associated Press account, the youth pastor said that the “gross-out” game, called the Human Vegematic, was just for fun and that the church forced no one to participate. The lawsuit accused the adults in charge of pressuring the 13- and 14-year-olds into activities that caused them physical and mental harm.
Such “gross-out” games have become a fad in youth ministry. Since adolescents are amused by bodily functions, crude behavior, and tastelessness following the church-growth principle of giving people what they like as a way to entice them into the kingdom many evangelical youth leaders think this is a way to reach young people.
The Source for Youth Ministry, a popular and widely used resource center, posts scores of games on its website, many of which were contributed by youth group leaders in the field. There is Sanctuary Softball, which involves whacking a Nerf ball in church, with home plate being the area of the altar, and running through the pews, as the fielders then try to hit the batter with the ball to make an out. Another fun activity is Seafood Catch, which involves putting minnows in the baptistery, then catching them by hand. (“Extra points for eating them after it is done.”)
Then there are games designed to appeal to adolescents’ hormones. These include kissing games like “Kiss the Wench.” “Leg Line Up” has girls feel boys’ legs to identify who is who. Some of them have odd homosexual subtexts, like “Pull Apart,” in which guys cling to each other, while girls try to pull them apart. Another has girls putting make-up on guys, leading to a drag beauty show. Then there is the embarrassingly Freudian “Baby Bottle Burp,” in which girls put a diaper (a towel) on a boy, then feed him a bottle of soda, and cradle him until he burps!
These are presented as just ordinary games, good ways to break the ice at youth group. But there is another category of “Sick and Twisted Games.” Many of these involve eating and drinking gross things, like at the Indiana church. (“Toothbrush Buffet” has youth group leaders brushing their teeth and spitting into a cup. Each then passes it along to the next in line, who uses what is in the cup to brush his teeth. The last one drinks down everyone’s spit.) Others are scatological, and are too repellent to describe.
What do teenagers learn from these youth group activities? Nothing of the Bible. Nothing of theology. Nothing of the cost of discipleship. But they do learn some lessons that they can carry with them the rest of their lives.
*Lose your inhibitions. Young people usually have inhibitions against doing anything too embarrassing or shameful. These exercises are designed to free people from such hang-ups. For some reason, post-Freudian psychologists whose “sensitivity groups” are the model for these kinds of exercises maintain that such inhibitions are bad. Christians, though, have always insisted that we need to feel inhibited about indulging in things for which we should feel ashamed. This is part of what we mean by developing a conscience.
Though being “gross” may not be sinful in itself, overcoming natural revulsions can only train a child to become uninhibited about more important things.
*Give in to peer pressure. Defenders of these kinds of activities maintain that they help create group unity. The way they work, though, is to overcome a teenager’s inhibitions with the greater desire to go along with the group. In other words, these exercises teach the teenager to give in to peer pressure. Instead, youth groups need to teach Christian teenagers not to go along with the crowd and to stand up against what their friends want them to do.
*Christianity is stupid. Status-conscious teenagers know that those who are so desperate to be liked that they will do anything to curry favor are impossible to respect. Young people may come to off-the-wall youth group meetings, but when they grow up, they will likely associate the church with other immature, juvenile phases of their lives, and Christianity will be something they will grow out of.
Teenagers get enough entertainment, psychology, and hedonism from their culture. They don’t need it from their church. What they need and often yearn for is God’s Word, catechesis, and spiritual formation.
Reprinted from FCF World Ministries.
And since 2002, the pied pipers of pragmatism have taken yet one more steep step down the rung in their worldly, Christ-less social gatherings.
The Berean Wife alerted me to an article from Folio Weekly (in PDF format) detailing the atrocious behaviors of a “church” youth group. This unbelievable article is entitled Peanut Butter Salvation: Why a Southside MegaChurch Thinks That Goldfish Swallowing and Toe-Licking Will Lead the Next Generation to God.
Here are some quotes from this article along with my commentary interjected in red.
As the youth leader held his arms aloft, the teenagers gaped at the hair, furred into a strip matted by sweat and deodorant. They watched as Pastor Turner dug into a jar of peanut butter and smeared gobs of it onto the exposed underarms, then turned to the audience. Did anyone, he asked, have the guts to lick it clean and swallow it down without puking? He got two volunteers. As the audience roared with excitement and disgust, the two male teenagers approached the youth leader and began to lick his armpits, burrowing their faces in the peanut butter and eating it. Neither puked. Their only prize was bragging rights. [This one needs no comment.]
It may seem hard to believe, but the genesis of the “Fearless” program was a marketing impulse. [No, it's not really that hard to believe. It's what we've come to expect from those who think they can "do church" better than God.] Pastor Turner and his creative team say they wanted to do something that would shock and astound their teenage audience. [If you really want to "shock and astound" the teens, try preaching the Word!] They hoped to get students talking about Celebration Church and about the Wednesday night service. [Because talking about Jesus and His finished work on the cross just isn't as cool.] They wanted a buzz that would go viral, that teens would text and Twitter about. They wanted the kids to share their cell phone pictures and videos. Ultimately, they wanted hordes of kids to show up the following Wednesday to see what crazy things the youth ministry would think up next. [Makes the church leadership feel good seeing all those kids show up to see what crazy world-mimicking things the youth ministry would think up next. What about the novel idea that kids should be showing up to church to learn more about God and to fellowship with the brethren? Oh, and don't forget, what you attract them with is ultimately what you have to keep them with. And here's the paradox: Take away the contrived entertainment and you lose the kids, "They're not doing what attracted me, dude, so I'm outta here." Keep the same level and you lose the kids, "They're not cutting edge, they're like so 5 minutes ago, I'm outta here." So the only solution is to push the envelope more and more.]
The program isn’t confined to the church’s Deerfield Boulevard campus. [Why not just say church? What is so offensive to all these megachurches that they hide behind the name "campus?"] Across town, at the Orange Park campus, another youth minister was hosting his own “Fearless” event. . . . Instead of an armpit, [22 year-old Pastor Shawn] Kelley smeared peanut butter on a youth leader’s feet and challenged two teens to lick it off. It was pretty gross, the pastor assures. “This leader’s feet are pretty bad.” . . . Still, Kelley says he did not, as Folio Weekly heard from a concerned parent, spread the peanut butter on his own feet, or between the youth leader’s toes. “We didn’t want to put it in between his toes,” he says. “That would be pushing it.” [Oh, so now we're taking a lesson on morality and what is and is not "pushing it" from Mr. Kelley. We'd love to know by what standard you rely on to define what's "pushing it" and what's not.]
Pastor Turner wants to send kids home from church thinking, “I don’t believe what just happened here tonight.” [Not thinking about their utter sinfulness before a holy God and the only propitiation for their transgressions being the spotless Lamb of God nailed to a cross because without the shedding of blood their is no remission of sins.] That’s a fair approximation of what one area mother felt when her son came home from the Orange Park service with video footage of the toe-licking. . . . She was so upset that the next morning she contacted Pastor John Wyatt, the head youth pastor for all six Celebration locations. She was stunned when he didn’t agree that having a child lick anything off an adult’s feet was inappropriate. . . . [She may have been stunned, but we're not. In fact, just wait till you see the comments start pouring in on this post defending this foolishness.] The mother suggests that the act between a minor and an adult in a private home would seem not only inappropriate, but perverse — and possibly illegal. [Wow, she hit the nail on the head!] But she says Pastor Wyatt, 37, and other church leaders didn’t concede there was anything wrong with what they’d done. [And they never will.] The woman decided not to allow her son to attend the church again. . . . [Although I question why she let him attend in the first place, this decision is wise.] “When you send a kid to church, you aren’t expecting they are going to be exposed to something like that. It just does not really make sense how Bible study turns into fish eating and eating peanut butter off a grown man’s toes.” [We've been trying to make sense of this foolishness too, but in the end, it's just silly men who have never grown up, getting paid to play silly games with kids who will eventually be inoculated against true Biblical Christianity.]
“The idea is to get students here to meet our Savior. They are getting all this crazy stuff out there in the world all the time. We are trying to show them that God is cooler.” [1. No, no, no. The "church" was never meant to be the place for people to "meet our Savior." The church is for the Believers, not the unbelievers. If an unbeliever attends a church service and he "meets our Savior" then great, but this was not the purpose of the assembly of the brethren. Actually reading your Bible would clarify the confusion.
2. So you're essentially using the old "bait and switch" tactic to sucker teens into your church? I guess if you're offering a fuzzy, non-offensive, feel-good Jesus then you can get away with it.
3. You're "crazy stuff" is somehow better than the "crazy stuff" in the world, how? Because you've "Christianized" it?
4. God is not "cool." For crying out loud, if you can't comprehend or even remotely understand the nature of God you have no business being a pastor. Have you forgotten that "cool" is defined by the world? Your god is an idol formed in the imaginations of your "creative team." You can keep your god. I'll stick to the true God revealed in Scripture who is not hip, cool, or what's happening now, but who is holy, holy, holy.]
Asked whether there was a religious lesson behind the grotesquerie, Wyatt offers, “It’s all about what it means to be fearless and know God is with you.” Pastor Kelley describes the “Fearless” stunts as metaphors for the courage it takes to be young and openly Christian. “It’s about being fearless, by allowing them to do something that took boldness, that they might possibly get made fun of for doing,” he says. “Standing up for Christ in the world requires you to be fearless.” [So let me get this straight. Standing up for Jesus requires boldness and fearlessness, but instead of instilling that in the youth by having them actually stand up for Jesus, or even showing them by example, instead you have them perform sick, twisted, and erotic games and this will somehow help them stand up for Jesus? And if they need to perform these juvenile games to stand up for Jesus then does that not mean that you're suggesting to them that their source of strength comes not from God but from them and their willingness to act like fools? Here's a novel idea: Try having them become "fearless" by actually proclaiming Jesus Christ, and start with you by boldly preaching Jesus Christ. Then encourage the one's that are really sincere to take missions trips to countries where standing up for Jesus will get you imprisoned, tortured and/or killed. Somehow I don't think the countless martyrs throughout church history and today needed to lick peanut butter off someone's toes in order to stand up for Jesus.]
Wyatt also points out that it’s much easier for a kid to talk about church with other teens when the conversation is about chugging a Happy Meal or bobbing for chicken feet. “They experience God here on Wednesday nights,” says Pastor Wyatt, “and they can’t always articulate that to their friends. This gives them something to say. ‘Wow, you’ve got to come to church, you’ve got to check this out. This is amazing! ’” [Of course it's easier to talk about Happy Meal chugging or bobbing for chicken feet if you're unregenerated. Preach the pure, unadulterated, hard truth of the gospel then sit back an watch the kids talk to other kids. A word of caution though, if any of them do get truly converted, they'll probably be telling other kids about Jesus Christ and his sacrifice instead of your church, and they probably won't remain in your church for very long either.]
“Unfortunately, somebody was offended, and we apologized right away,” says Pastor Wyatt. “But the other side of that is, there was a whole bunch of kids who gave their life to Christ that night. Ultimately, our goal is to get people into church and into a relationship with Jesus.” [Ah, the old "someone gave their life to Christ" card. Always employed when someone questions the worldly, Chirst-less, and wholly unbiblical marketing tactics of today's cool, hip, and relevant social clubs. Somehow, we're told not to judge them, but they are quick to judge others, claiming to know the hearts of these kids and pronounce that they're saved. Here's an experiment I suggest trying. Take these kids who you claim to have "given their life to Jesus," separate them from the toe-licking and armpit licking shenanigans, and teach them the hard things. Teach them the whole counsel of God. Teach them doctrine. Teach them that they are expected to lay down their life daily, that they're to die to self, that they're to take up their crosses daily and follow Christ. Teach them that those who choose to live holy lives will be persecuted. Teach them that friendship with the world is enmity to God and that those who love the things of this world are enemies of God. Then we'll check back in with you in six months and see where those kids who "gave their life to Christ" are. If they were truly converted they will be right there desiring more of the meat of the Word. If they were false converts they'll have left for the other megachurch down the street who has bowling/pizza nights, whip cream fights, rock concerts, gross-out games, and the weekly "rededicate your life to Christ" alter call.]
This article also interviews Karen McKinney, a director of youth ministries and associate professor at Bethel University who opposes the foolishness of what you’ve just read above. But just when you think there’s a voice of reason, we read this:
McKinney finds programs copying “Fear Factor” and other puke-inducing events to be a contradiction to the church’s message of stewardship. “What did we just teach?” she wonders rhetorically when told about the youth program. “What value is it when we know there are kids starving? … There are ways to teaching young people to be bold without wasting food.” [McKinney is about to offer an example of how she taught teens valuable lessons by means of a much better technique . Brace yourselves.] As an example, McKinney remembers how she was invited to speak about sexual boundaries to a teen group at a church in downtown St. Paul. After brief introductions, she broke the 12 students into two groups and told them they were going to play strip Pictionary. For every round lost, the losing group would have to take off an item of clothing. Before they even started, she says she could hear a 13-year-old girl say under her breath, “This is wrong.” But she said the group went through three rounds before the 13-year-old stood up and said, “I thought the topic was boundaries. We should not be playing this game.”McKinney then asked the other students if they also thought the game was wrong and why they didn’t voice those concerns. “They got the message loud and clear what it means to stand up when it comes to crossing these kinds of boundaries,” she says. Licking peanut butter off somebody’s armpit, she observes, crosses those boundaries without drawing valuable lessons for the Celebration students. “It’s just totally inappropriate,” she says. [So it's all right to "cross boundaries" as long as a lesson is learned? And encouraging 13-year-olds to play strip Pictionary is an acceptable ends-justifies-the-means lesson? Good grief, the inmates are running the asylum!]
Welcome to the American Christianity where worldly wisdom reigns from the pulpit and rules the day. Those who lower Christianity to such base levels are showing that they do not believe that the Gospel is enough to save as the Apostle Paul believed it was when under inspiration of the Holy Spirit he penned Romans 1:16: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes . . .”
Faith comes by hearing the Gospel, not by quaint little stories about how to be bold like Daniel while having kids perform gross and even erotic acts before their peers.
The defense commonly used by proponents of this worldly behavior in church is usually that they’re trying to reach a certain group, and in order to do that, they say, “you must first relate to that group and become like that group.” But I have to ask: If you have to reach people where they’re at, tell me, how do you reach the abortionist? How do you reach the homosexual? How do you reach the intravenous drug user? How do you reach the pedophile? I’ll stop there as I do not want to give these youth leaders any new ideas for their next big thing.
In seven years we went from teen girls feeling teen boys’ legs in youth group, to teens licking peanut butter off an adult’s feet and playing strip Pictionary. I can only imagine what the next seven years will bring.
I conclude with a quote from Gene Edward Veith who summed up the whole problem in his article posted above:
Status-conscious teenagers know that those who are so desperate to be liked that they will do anything to curry favor are impossible to respect. Young people may come to off-the-wall youth group meetings, but when they grow up, they will likely associate the church with other immature, juvenile phases of their lives, and Christianity will be something they will grow out of.
Pastor Wyatt is 37. What in IQ or age? This is very so ridiculous and sick. I seriously doubt if these pastors even know Jesus. In teaching them to be fearless about God, how does all this nonsense teach them anything except what idiots these church people are. I certainly would not have let my children attend anything like this. They have got no love for Jesus, the bible or these youth who the parents have entrusted to their care. Youth pastors are a waste of time
As a pastor…alright, a youth pastor…I am disheartened, but not surprised by what is revealed in this blog entry. I am saddened that there are leaders in churches across this country that have forsaken truth for tripe. I’ll tell you that it is something that many of “us” youth pastors battle – the temptation to have the latest & greatest, most talked about, and heavily attended youth group in the county / city. If only we would just slow down and realize that so much of this putrid folly is ego-centric and get our focus on a ministry that is for God’s glory, working His plan and pleasure in our own lives – and the lives of those we minister to! There are many yp’s out ‘there’ that are committed to the Word and the God of the Word…unfortunately they don’t get blazing headlines like these fellas do.
For His glory & Name’s sake…I am a youth pastor.
How sad! Inoculated against Christianity is definitely where it is leading!
Without argument it’s wrong and totally gross what is going on in some youth groups. NO DOUBT! BUT I personally was taught and discipled as part of a youth group that often ramped on the insane, not that everything done was right~in fact some was down right WRONG, yet without my attention I don’t think I would have ever heard the good, the godly, the message.
As a forty something pastor’s wife who has spent my life working with kids and teens, I refuse to cross boundaries even for “the point,” but do recognize that young people do not speak my language nor is their culture the same as mine. I am constantly looking for a way to be Christ to all men that I might win some. Hard job, true. Compromising is not an option. I have teens also. Two issues: mine are homeschooled and not socialized (if you want to call what many kids are) as the public schooled kids~90% of all church kids are public schooled…so when we reach in/to train and teach/disciple~cookies, cool aide and a color sheet just don’t work anymore. The church is NOT teaching nor is it reaching. AND as a homeschool mom, do you think I want MY KIDS hanging with kids who are not “socialized” in their church even? It’s not just a question of HOW to reach young people with appropriate means, but of WHO will reach them. It’s the parental responsibility which has been abdicated for materialism. The kids are suffering~the home is in chaos and the church in decline.
I praise God for a gold fish eating youth pastor who got my attention but also taught and showed the way. Perfect it was not, but somebody tried. Left alone, I would have found the way of ALL my friends, addicted and wrecked.
This is a call to parents and the church to stand strong in training children and leading them, not intertaining them, but it starts at home with God at the helm. AND nobody better expect MY KID to lick their toes! NOBODY!
As a parent of a 13yo young lady, this scares me. BUT… My husband and I are involved in our youth group. Our Director of Youth Activities likes to be cutting edge, but also knows that we are blessed to live in a community where parents are involved with their children.
I have not been the only mom to sit and observe, volunteer to chaperone, or stay until the place is cleaned up. There are even a few dads involved with the boys Bible study, which is a great example to all our youth.
I do believe that our desire for “numbers” can blind our hearts to what is really important: Teaching and training the next generation to love and serve God.
This is all utterly demonic. Plain and simple. These are the worst kinds of examples.
But aside from these, the common thread throughout many churches today is novelty and excitement. Yet, as Spurgeon said, “What is born in excitement most often dies once the excitement is over.” This is never more true in 21st century American Christian circles… which, by the way, is being exported to other countries as a means of capturing souls for Christ.
The Pilgrim,
Thank you for dealing with this issue. I pray that any with youth would pull their youth out of this stupidity.
This pretty much sums up the view of those who have grown up in the average church and in youth groups. They graduate from school and graduate from church never to return, “kids who will eventually be inoculated against true Biblical Christianity.”
So sad. What must our Lord think !?!
Berean Wife
Would someone show me in scripture (soundly, using the whole Bible, not just one or two out of context verses) where and when:
1. God has ordained the church to teach the children rather than the fathers teaching them,
2. God has ordained age segregation during the gathering together of the believers, and
3. God has ordained another leadership position called “youth minister”?
This, sadly, will be the end result of these shenanigans. These kids will go on to college, learn to give in to peer pressure–pressure to go out and get drunk and sleep around. Why? Because they will fear being picked on and laughed at by the world, all the while having no fear of the holiness or righteous judgments of God. They will grow out of their “church phase” and look back when they are older and think “I was so stupid to listen to that goofball and all his Bible stuff.” And, alas, the Lord Jesus Christ will be filed away into the collection of memories he/she considers “stupid” and “foolish.”
And all the while, that youth
“pastor”fun-group leader will go on thinking he did something wonderful for God and that he “led 8000 kids to Christ”–all of whom will have walked away from that same “Christ” that this immature youth“pastor”fun-group leader has disgraced by his worldly desire to be hip/cool/relevant/popular.Mrs. Travers,
Thanks for stopping by. I do not believe there is anybody who can show you an affirmative answer to your three questions. This would be true of a number of things we probably find in church today that were not found in the early New Testament churches. The Bible is silent in many areas of church practice, but that does not necessarily make the thing right or wrong. For instance, some churches take up offerings in a bag, some in a plate, some just put a box on the wall at the back.
However, back to your questions. There are many things done in church today that are done for expedience sake. Over the years, parents have abrogated their God-given responsibilities and passed them off to others. We start each week by walking in the front door of the church and pass the kids off to the Sunday School teacher for an hour, then to the children’s church or youth ministry for another hour – and THEN have the audacity to think those 2 hours of “religious” training will carry our kids through the entire week. They wake up on Monday morning and we feed them to the wolves that prowl the halls of primary and secondary education classrooms. Then the children grow up with a socialistic, depraved worldview, and the parents begin showing up to prayer meeting pleading with God for years to bring their children back to church!
“God is not mocked. Whatsoever we sow, we will reap!”
This comes at a great time, your information. There are some things goung on in our youth program at church that are plain wrong, and when mom tried tos ay something they ganged up on her. Yah Mom for sticking to your ‘olf timr’ principals. Thank you
Thank you so much for this timely, and saddening, insight into the condition of much of the modern, visible church. Most megachurches are filled with unregenerate people and the leadership caters to what these people want rather than ministering to God’s people, the true converts. If they began preaching and teaching as they should, admonishing in Godliness and truth, the majority of people would walk out the door. It is a sad state of affairs but there are a few, remnant fellowships out there and every believer should seek one out. It can be difficult but we must separate from the ungodliness that is being perpetrated blasphemously in the name of our Lord. These things are evil and true believers should depart from them.
I ran across this very accurate description of these type churches:
The Seven Solas of the Modern Church:
Sola Cultura – let culture define church life
Sola Successa – Let numerical success legitimize activities
Sola Entertaina – Let entertainment be the guiding principle
Sola Edificia – Let the edifice be the center of church life
Sola Programma – Let programs dominate the peoples time
Sola Thralldoma – Let the people be enslaved by whatever thrills them
Sola Processa – Let the church be managed by business philosophies and processes
from http://girdedwithtruth.org/2009/06/09/the-seven-solas-of-the-modern-church/
Thanks for sharing this eye opener. Over the past years I have been observing from the side lines in at least 3 different “ministry” settings similar (and at least — to my limited focal point no being involved with these groups directly — not quite as gross as the examples above but definitely as questionable) happenings.
I have a question to you. You are talking about specific “church youth ministries”. I assume (at least it would be MY understanding) that this also applies to Youth Ministries which opperate outside of a church setting (youth missionaries, for example)…
Would it be your understanding that youth missionaries whose goal is not to get kids into a church but to present the gospel (they go to the schools for example and open up bible studies and groups) should also refrain from such practices?
(Cause that would also be my understanding, but like I say, I have run into a few missionaries who, according to my limited knowledge of what they actually do, seem to be involved with some pretty heavy “youth culture” activities…)
I hope those youth pastors all get fired, so they will have to go work for a living. I hope they get sued also. sincerely, carrie daniel
I have just finished reading this entire blog entry, and my heart is breaking. First I would like to say that many valid points are made. There are ministries and youth leaders out there who are very poor representatives of Christ and His kingdom.
But please, I ask the author of this post and all who read it, do not judge all youth leaders together. Yes, I am one. Yes, I lead a youth group every Wednesday night. Yes, we play games during part of our time.
No, we do not play games that in any way try to purposefully gross students out. Once, and only once, I neared that line and have never come within sight of it again. We don’t play “strip” anything. Last night we played relay pictionary and raced to see which team could spell the most words with Alphabit cereal. It was enjoyable, harmless, not gross, and the teens munched on the cereal as we all turned in our Bibles to John chapter 9 and had a study about how Jesus healed a man born blind.
Please do not lump me and many of my colleagues together with the specific instances written about in this post. Dare I say that I can relate to my students AND do so without sacrificing the truth? Is it arrogant or ignorant of me to believe that is what I do, or strive to do, in my capacity as a youth leader?
I use myself as an example in this matter not because I think highly of my abilities, because I credit any success to a perfect God who is for some reason choosing to work with an imperfect woman, but because my life is the example closest at hand for me to use.
Please, I am not saying that the specific instances outlined in this post are not true, but I am saying that they are just that. . . specific. I humbly ask all who read this to please acknowledge, or at least consider, that these instances do not define what youth ministry is.
They certainly do not define my heart for sharing Christ with lost teenagers and discipling those teenagers in my group that have already come to Him.
My kids do not attend youth group for the very reasons listed above. BEWARE PARENTS …more harm than good seems to come from these gatherings. Our children are Biblically illiterate because our youth pastors teach GAMES instead of THE WORD and LIVING OUT OUR FAITH.
It seems there are some think that they can chew the meat and spit out the bones & still play the card of “it still led me to Christ, wrong as some if it was, and how would I have ever gotten saved without it?” nonsense.
ALL of this is man-centered, child-centered, and nothing short of animalistic behavior, lacking in Self- Control, honor, integrity, holiness, love, faithfulness, and Scripture.
God saves by the PREACHING of the WORD and folks are saved by the HEARING OF IT. HE doesn’t need stupid and absolutely disgusting childish animal antics to “get people saved”. God is TOO HOLY to stoop that low.
Experience doesn’t dictate what is biblical. Scripture does.
How did you “learn Christ?” By entertainment, fleshly ways?
Eph 4:19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.
Eph 4:20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!–
Eph 4:21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,
Eph 4:22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,
Eph 4:23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds,
Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
Tit 2:6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.
Tit 2:7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,
Tit 2:8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=106091614287
Short sermon by Robert W Reed 17 minutes on youth ministry
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20091212/modern-youth-ministry-unbiblical-ministry-leader-claims/index.html
shane,
Thanks for posting that link! It’s a great reminder that the Word of God is SUFFICIENT! As we have moved away from the 5 solas of the Reformation, we have been seduced in many ways by the culture.
A few families from my church were at that conference last week – really good stuff.
Youth ministry is a subject I have been giving some thought about here lately. Now that I am a dad I wonder if my son will actually be taught anything worth while in a youth group. Youth groups are still a subject on which I am sitting on the fence. I guess they could be a good thing if kids are actually taught the Bible instead of always going to do next activity. But they will never be a substitute for my roll in teaching my child. From what I remember from being in public school, the kids that were “Christians” were no different than the ones that weren’t. If a youth group would be to blame for that, then I would have to give youth groups a thumbs down.
Dear Shane:
In your quest to determine where you stand on Youth Ministry, consult your Bible. If you find a complete absence of such a concept (along with “youth pastors”) then I would submit for your consideration the idea that it is not only an unbiblical concept, but a man-made tradition that was created to fix a problem that Biblical illiteracy in the home originally created.
We tried to fix a problem with another problem and it hasn’t worked.
You are on the right track, however, when you said:
That, unlike church youth group, can be supported from the Bible.
Also, I submit for your consideration the following additional resources to help you get off the fence:
* Voddie Baucham’s book Family Driven Faith.
* The sermon The Centrality of the Home that can be downloaded from this post.
* The sermon Child Training which can be downloaded from this post.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
P.S. For your study, check out Who’s Pastoring the Youth Pastors? and The Problem With Youth Ministry Today.
Thanks for the links Pilgrim. I will have to check them out. I hope and pray that my son will be a positive influence on a youthgroup instead of a youthgroup being a negative influence on him. There is an abscence of them in the Bible. Along with “altar calls”, “raise your hand decisions”, and the “sinners prayer”. Three things that I think have done a lot of damage. Three things that I haven’t found in the Bible.
If the “church”, I use that term loosly, has been doing it for years, doesn’t that make it right?<small hint of sarcasm
Traditions, uggg, I got a funny look at my church when I said that altar calls and the like were not Biblical. I can't wait to see what happens if I say I disagree with youth groups.
This if for anyone that has criticism of me about the "sinners prayer". I have no problem with a sinner saying a prayer. I do have a problem with telling someone they are saved when they say said prayer.
As a youth pastor, I would welcome parents getting involved in the youth group to:
1) ensure that correct doctrine is being taught
2) ensure that the doctrine being taught is supportive of what they’re teaching in their home
Many people voice concerns over “youth group” and yet they don’t (or won’t) get involved in it.
I think the argument that “the Bible doesn’t endorse youth groups” may be a bit far fetched. The Bible doesn’t endorse a lot of things that the Church is currently involved with. I wholeheartedly support the belief that parents should be the primary theological instructors in their childrens lives. This can, and should, also be in conjunction with instruction from the Church.
Now, as to the form of instruction from the Church…ah, this is where the rub comes in. The silliness of what many churches have in their youth group is not a valid reason to condemn ‘youth groups’ altogether. Not every group is like that…and it is silly to assume so.
There are benefits to having additional teaching to teens – it is no different than having a men’s bible study or ladies small group. (I dislike anecdotal arguments, but here goes…) I teach 6 major doctrines, in concentrated study, to my teens during their time in my group. The teens come away with solid theological training and see it practically applied in ministry to others in our church.
My question to those who are “anti-youth groups” would be this: Is it wise for the church to set aside time for further, deeper and practical instruction of the Word for teens? If not, why not? How is this damaging the Church? (I’m assuming that teens are being instructed in “traditional” Sunday services, and being instructed in the home – btw, in a lot of churches, I agree, this ISN’T happening) [by traditional I mean the Word is proclaimed and Christ is glorified]
I absolutely agree with getting rid of the shenanigans that many pose as youth meetings. The problem is that too many, even some who have posted here, ride the pendulum too far the other direction and call it “biblical”. I guess I’m not seeing it.
gracedependent
“There are benefits to having additional teaching to teens – it is no different than having a men’s bible study or ladies small group.”
I guess that is one of the reason’s I am still on the fence as far as youth groups go. The point you make there is the point my wife makes.
But the never ending stream of fundraisers, camps, gimmicks, and etc make me weary of youth groups. The youth pastor at my church had started a youth Bible study. He only had 1 to 2 youths show up but, when it comes to doing “drama” and “human videos” they have plenty show up. It appears there is no interest in Bible study just gimmicks. I guess that is no different than the adults though.
Shane,
How are you encouraging the youth pastor at the local church that you attend? Have you brought your teen to the bible study? (if possible) How about meeting with the YP to pray about the spiritual condition of the teens? Maybe volunteer to help lead a bible study? Make known your willingness to drive teens to the bible study in the case that they may not have transportation? Perhaps host the bible study in your home?
More importantly, what are you doing as a dad to instruct your teen? How are you taking in Truth so that you can also instruct others?
There are a myriad of practical ways to assist those who work with the youth in the local church. Some creative thinking will go a long way!
Godspeed,
mark
mark aka gracedependent,
As my elders put it when they tell visiting pastors why we don’t do programs – such as youth: Every thing the church does sends a message to the families. Every program the church has give fathers the opportunity to shrink back from their duty of leading the family and teaching the children.
Not all people react the same, but it’s human nature for people to want to grow their businesses – youth “pastors” included as it is human nature to get by in areas that are not important to one – most fathers in regards to their spiritual responsibilities in the home.
So then – why would a church do anything that is not found in Scripture AND has a profoundly bad influence on families?
(That’s all my poor paraphrase. Spend time listening to Voddie Baucham and you will better understand what I’m trying to say.)
“So then – why would a church do anything that is not found in Scripture”
This is what boggles my mind. How far are you willing to take this line of thinking? Are you saying that the contemporary (today’s) church must be exactly like a NT church in both form and function? If you answer “yes”…I’d love to speak to you about your church.
And I am interested in your reply.
Please note that I am not defending the senseless drivel that drove the original post.
~mark
mark,
There is a reasonable approach to the Regulative Principle. Some things – air conditioning, materials, technology, etc. – are not the issue. What is at issue is what we do and why we do it.
I don’t think we have enough information on “the NT church” – much less do we have agreement on whether one means what we read about in Acts or what we read in the epistles.
In Scripture, the fathers are commanded to instruct their children. Nowhere is the church told to do so.
Consider this: sola Scriptura means all that is necessary for our salvation and growth in righteousness is found in Scripture – the Bible testifies to this. Anything man adds to how we worship God and follow His commands rests on the wisdom of man. The only thing man can bring to God is sin. We ought to stick to what He has revealed to us in Hiw Word – we can have assurance that it is honorable in His sight. And we have much work to do before we are fully compliant with that – so why waste time using our sinful minds to honor God our own way? Eli’s sons did that and it didn’t work out so good.
my son is not a teen yet. He still has a ways to go.
“gracedependent
How are you encouraging the youth pastor at the local church that you attend? ”
the person we have now as the youth pastor is technically the associate pastor. He is just doing it because they can’t find a youth pastor. Until my son is old enough to join a youth group I don’t feel like I have the right to make any suggestions or question why they do what they do. Probably any suggestions or comments I have would probably fall on deaf ears anyway. There are a lot of issues there that probably outweigh youthgroups anyways. Such as lack of discipleship, evangelism, and etc.
I have thought about doing a class on how to study the Bible. I am not the best at studying the Bible but, I do think I would have a lot to offer. Especially conscidering some of the things I have seen and some of the questions I have heard asked at church. I think the youth would grately benefit from a class such as that. Hopefully the seminary class I am taking will be of some use afterall.
@Manfred – I agree wholeheartedly with your reply.
Now, does your church follow (in form and function, not technology, etc) _only_ what we read in Scripture concerning the church?
If we “don’t think we have enough information on ‘the NT church’ – much less agreement” on Acts or the epistles…then why condemn youth groups? (putting aside the godless actions of some – I’m in total agreement that much of what passes as “youth meetings” is silliness)
I wholeheartedly hold to Sola Scriptura. I totally disagree that my having a “youth group” is contrary in principle or otherwise to anything in Scripture. Are small groups to be condemned as well? The group meeting is not “adding” anything to worship – we worship corporately the sovereign Lord.
Your logic is puzzling. I’m not adding anything to salvation or sanctification by having a meeting time, in which the doctrines of God’s Word are proclaimed, and in which Christ has preeminence.
I still am interested in hearing how your church functions as a corporate body. In what ways does it, “stick to what He has revealed to us in His word” and in what ways does it deviate from that? I think if you would answer these questions you may see the flaw in your logic.
grace to you brother and thanks for your challenging thoughts!
mark
———————————–
@shane,
I would encourage you to get to know how your church operates in it’s youth group and offer suggestions gracefully right now! I know, as a pastor, that I would love any kind of input or ideas / suggestions. Those who would refuse a gracious church member offering suggestions have an issue with pride.
Please, please get involved in your church in some way. Even if it means simply taking what you’re learning in seminary (awesome!) and teaching another individual. Reproduce what you are learning from Scripture in others! Pray for your leaders! Serve compassionately!
(I’m not shouting, just encouraging) :)
grace,
mark
Mark,
You can read our most recent church bulletin here: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/ac076ad43aaeeaa7371f8b4ff/files/091220.pdf
That describes our weekly order and content of service.
Small groups in and of themselves are not wrong, as Christians have been meeting in homes as small groups since the beginning.
However, the only age demographic we see in the operation of the NT church is that “older women teach younger women and older men teach younger men”. Youth groups and singles group, etc. gather people based on a temporal point of commonality. Singles don’t learn what a godly marriage looks like and teens don’t learn what a mature Christian looks like in such circumstances.
In my church, the young men are welcome to join the monthly mens’ meetings at age 12. We have small groups that meet in homes – families gather for study together and little ones participate as they are able (it’s a joy to hear young children read out loud). We have no nursery. My wife and I have never been around such a group of well grounded young folks in our lives. 17 year-olds discussing doctrine and theology over lunch. Unmarried women seeking their father’s continued spiritual leadership. All for the glory of God – in what is done and how it is done.
I would like to ask a couple of question of those involved in this discussion:
* Where did the concept of “adolescence” come from?
* Does the Bible make any mention of this mysterious age between childhood and adulthood (i.e. adolescence), or is this a purely recent concept foisted upon us by psychology grounded in evolutionary thinking?
* Why does the church feel the need to follow in the footsteps of secular government educational philosophies and worldly wisdom by segregating people into age groups?
* Why does the church feel the need to divide the family in the area of fellowship, the breaking of bread, the study of God’s Word, and corporate worship?
* Why does the church feel the need to not only set the precedent but perpetuate the practice of separating families and suggest (by practice) that they can’t possibly worship together?
* Why does the church feel the need to encourage the father’s abdication of his responsibility to yet another paid teacher?
* Why can’t “teens” and children get in depth study on doctrine alongside their parents? Why must the teaching and preaching of God’s Word be compartmentalized so that adults learn this, and “adolescents” learn that?
Why is it that youth groups continue to flourish in spite of their staggering failure rate (see the book Already Gone)?
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
Pilgrim,
Those are the same types of questions our elders ask of those who are enthralled with “normal” church.
“gracedependent
I would encourage you to get to know how your church operates in it’s youth group and offer suggestions gracefully right now!”
My wife and I are fairly new members there(a little over a year). We might need to “move up in the ranks more” first.
It would be very encouraging to see teenagers involved in theological study and discussion.
Sadly though, I think a lot of them would be uninterested in it.
My wife volunteered myself and her to work in the nursery in January. Maybe that will be a start. My pastor had asked me a while back if my wife and I would want to teach small childrens class on Sunday nights when they start up evening small groups again.
“Pilgrim
Why is it that youth groups continue to flourish in spite of their staggering failure rate”
I would think it is partly because of tradition (such as when I mentioned in my Sunday school class that altar calls have only been around for about 200 years, the people in my class seemed shocked), Biblical illiteracy and laziness of the parents, and the fact that many believe that because someone says a prayer or walks an isle that they are saved. When that person does not show any fruits they are just considered a carnal Christian.
Maybe I should bring a copy of Paul Washers “Shocking sermon” for the youth to listen to at my church. Though it might get me kicked out of church. LOL
shane,
If Paul Washer’s message don’t get ya kicked out, try this one: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16924&forum=35
Manfred,
I just listened to Voddie’s sermon you linked above, and it was characteristically powerful and convicting. His clear and trenchant teachings on the Biblical model of the family, and the role of the father serve as a continual encouragement and challenge to me personally. In my opinion Voddie is among the smartest and most prophetic voices of our day, and he acts as a much needed watchman on the wall for the generally apostate, and woefully wayward Southern Baptist Convention.
In Him,
CD
CD,
Thank you for your reply. I agree with you – my close friends and I all agree: we are blessed by GOd to have this man as an elder in our church. His teaching is perhaps the best (solid, effective) I’ve sat under and he is a humble servant of the Lord, determined to avoid the spotlight and not to seek his own, realizing how vulnerable he is to the sinful desires of the flesh.
Time after time, he and Paul Renfro teach the Word – not man centered, but Christ centered – and all flesh is convicted and the souls of the saints rejoice in the grace poured out by our Lord.