For a lack of better terms, the gospel is so simple to understand.

you’ve judged me.

Yup! As I have stated all along, we have looked at your fruit against the standard of God’s Word. We are told to do so in Scripture.

Remember from my earlier post to you:

God actually commands us to judge those who claim to be in the church (The Book of Matthew, chapter 7).

Take another look at Pilgrim’s Rules of Engagement. Rule number 8:

8). If you can’t leave a comment without judging us for judging others then please find another blog to comment on that allows you to blatantly twist Scripture while you judge them.

But you can do that yourself:

“Test yourself to see if you are in the faith; examine yourself! Or do you not recognize this about yourself, that Jesus Christ is in you — unless indeed you fail the test?” (2 Corinthians 13:5)

How do you measure up?

cl, I’m not going to re-tread worn out ground with you. If you continue to wave the ‘judging’ card in every post – and you desire a response from me – just peruse my previous posts… you’ll get your answer.

:)

You wrote:

The truth is, I’m over at my blog seeking to understand the Bible and Christianity as best I can.

But earlier you wrote:

“I’m not interested in biblical exposition right now.”

You have a group of Bible believing Christians HERE ready to explain Christianity to you.

Your blog… not so much.

And yet, you choose to flame us instead of learning from us.

Gimme a break – now I say you owe me an apology, and I’ve never said that to anyone online before.

Uh… right. I should apologize to you for suggesting you get saved?

Can somebody else here please consider telling Jeff H that saying stuff like this is rude? I mean, surely, there’s gotta be one other person here who thinks he’s out of line.

So I’m out of line for defending and contending for my Lord Jesus’ Word?

If not, then church really is something these days.

The saints comprise the Bride of Christ.

Earthly churches contain varying combinations of wheat and tares…

If those outside the church are looking at this, I can only wonder what they think.

Jesus said that the world will HATE the Church and the Lord’s saints, and that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

‘Churches’ that try to mimic the world in order to fill the pews invariably attract goats and drive off the sheep.

So, cl, I’ll ask you again:

Are you saved?

In Christ,

- Jeff H

No you haven’t, Jeff. You’ve demonstrated your own assumptions about me. In other words, you’ve judged me. You have no way of knowing whether I’ve met the Scriptural requirements for salvation or not. You can sit here and say whatever you want; none of it is based on accurate knowledge. You imply that a “real Christian” would do things so much differently than me – perhaps they would not accept an award from an atheist, or speak with a different tone. What if I’m a “real Christian” who’s new to the faith? What if I’m a “real Christian” who simply has a different approach to blogging than those here? What if I’m a “real Christian” who happens to think that atheists are “real people” equally deserving of respect and companionship? It’s not like I’m here using foul language and insulting people, right? I mean, Bob, who also accuses me like you, is on blogs TELLING PEOPLE TO HANG THEMSELVES. Is that Christian?

“Perhaps you are deceived… perhaps you are deceiving… either way, I know you like to post and post and post merely to argue. I’ve seen your blogsite.”

Perhaps you’re deceived, Jeff? What? You think it’s impossible? Are you “too Christian” to be deceived? I know you’re not gonna tell me you are when even Cephus was deceived! Yes, sometimes on my blog, we argue. Other times, we have wonderful conversations – believers, atheists, whoever. You should come by some time, suspend your judgments, and just get to know me – so that you can make a “real judgment” as Jesus admonishes.

“You’re not seeking to understand the Bible or Christianity better, so your comments serve nothing better than to smear Christians and thereby the Name of Christ.”

Again, your assumption, i.e. judgment. The truth is, I’m over at my blog seeking to understand the Bible and Christianity as best I can. I’m defending belief just like these guys here. But, I fully expect that you don’t know this, because you’re not over there “seeking to understand my blog better,” just over here making hasty judgments.

“THAT is why I made the comment about casting pearls.”

And if THAT is why you made the comment, then your comment was based on an ASSUMPTION about me – that I’m “not seeking to understand the Bible or Christianity better.”

“Argue away, if you wish, but the truth is that you have been weighed against God’s Word and have been found lacking.”

Found lacking to you, mere man.

“Don’t be offended by us,”

That’s just it – although I’ve chosen to overlook it – I am offended by you – and you can’t even consider apologizing, or that you might have any legitimate culpability in the offense. It’s like you can’t or won’t even look at yourself.

“..if we are all relating the same message to you, cl, using Scripture, and you are offended by this, is not your battle with the Lord and His Word?”

Who’s “we all?” I’m talking to you. Bob took a few comments, and DP dropped out of the convo two weeks ago. As far as my battles with the Lord are concerned, like Jacob, we all wrestle with God.

“Enjoy your ‘academic’ arguments and your coy reluctance to share what you believe,”

More insulting, denigrating tone? Why? What causes you to burn against me? What have I done to you? What I believe is written all over the place, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, but if your mind is already all made up about me, then so be it.

“Get saved… then post here, and we’ll see… over time… if you begin to bear fruit that is in keeping with salvation.”

Gimme a break – now I say you owe me an apology, and I’ve never said that to anyone online before.

Can somebody else here please consider telling Jeff H that saying stuff like this is rude? I mean, surely, there’s gotta be one other person here who thinks he’s out of line. If not, then church really is something these days. If those outside the church are looking at this, I can only wonder what they think.

Rude, but expected, as you operate from the idea that I’m an unsaved heathen on the basis of superficial judgments, and that your comments are going towards my salvation.

Your record seems to be stuck!

In Jesus,
- Jeff H

I was just checking back to see if you’d gotten time for that explanation yet. Hope this message finds you well, I’ll just keep checking back ’til we connect.

Bob,

Sometimes I do take the last word no matter what. Other times I do not.

Earlier, you said, “I do not think that you will ever accept my explanation or that of anyone about judgement and opinions and discipline from God or any other explanation in that arena.” Actually, I might just accept your explanation with open arms if you would just apologize for assuming all these things about me. If you responded with, “You know what cl, maybe you’re right, maybe I’ve overstepped my bounds with some of the things I’ve assumed about you,” and then we proceeded to get to know each other’s opinions on various subjects, we could develop an actual relationship. Jesus didn’t gain converts by telling them they were wrong; contrary, He showed them love and acceptance, generally saving His words of judgment and condemnation for the pious.

You said, “I see enough of his writing to know that he claims to be agnostic which is one pay grade higher than an atheist. That is enough for me. He has made a poor choice.”

The religious didn’t recognize Jesus as righteous, either. See, you jump to conclusions about me: why don’t you try reading what I actually say regarding agnosticism? What “poor choice” do you claim I’ve made? I’m just being honest: I believe there is a God, but I do not know, in the same sense that I know I have a body. I believe we will all know there is a God someday.

Jeff H.,

You said, “That’s also why I made the comment about myself being at risk of “casting pearls before swine.””

Rude, but expected, as you operate from the idea that I’m an unsaved heathen on the basis of superficial judgments, and that your comments are going towards my salvation.

You said, “He’s more than welcome to the last word – or – words – or posts, or whatever he wants. I just want him to be saved.”

Why do you assume I’m not? That’s my question.

DP’s Wife,

You said, “You two are doing an excellent job helping to defend and contend. It’s not just the those in charge of this site who do it because many times life gets in the way and they can’t respond like they would like. DefCon is helped by those visitors who also defend and contend for the faith! Thanks so much for helping out by defending and contending for the faith and sharing the gospel with those who refuse to listen!”

How can I convince you that there’s nothing to defend against? I’m not attacking the faith.

I will pray for all of you that the Lord will give you wisdom and insight as you respond to those that visit this site.

When I bought a Chevy Impala not too long ago I began to
notice many other Impalas on the road. Surfing the internet I now notice many comments and blogs-sites that are maintained by atheists. As I was on You-Tube yesterday I was listening to some clips of Christian music and began to read the comments that are listed with each clip by people making comments. Most were positive comments about the song and how it spoke to their heart but I am noticing more nasty comments by people . Some comments were filthy and stating
that there is no God and deriding Christains. This type of reaction will be evident all the more as time goes on. I do not see negative comment on religion or other faiths very much. Most of the focus is on the Christian and Jesus. What does that tell us ? The spirit of anti-christ is evident. Of course that is rejecting Christ and stating that He did not come in the flesh at all. We should not be surprised because we have been warned. Of course the Lord will guide us in this endeavor as we live for Him and share the gospel.

Blessings

Bob, I’m just a visitor here to this site. This blog belongs to Pilgrim!

We should continue to keep Pilgrim and the other staff here in prayer, to keep contending and defending – to the glory of the Lord!

- Jeff H

You wrote: “he claims to be agnostic” and “He is a … ‘debater’”.

Yup. I kind of got the same impressions that you did when I looked over cl’s site.

That’s also why I made the comment about myself being at risk of “casting pearls before swine.”

I will continue to keep cl in prayer.

You wrote: “cl will demand the preeminence and the last word.”

He’s more than welcome to the last word – or – words – or posts, or whatever he wants. I just want him to be saved. He’s heard the Gospel, so perhaps the Holy Spirit will change his heart.

- Jeff H

Round and round we go with cl. There are other issues here.
cl on the other sites always attempt to have the last word.
Of course we know that God has the last word. We could discuss politics or the stock market and cl will demand the preeminence and the last word. He is a “thinker and debater”.
I saw this “look at me” type of stuff on wall street years ago as people debated about religion and politics.

cl has said that I do not know him. Not too much. He likes to drink beer. I see enough of his writing to know that he claims to be agnostic which is one pay grade higher than an atheist.
That is enough for me. He has made a poor choice.

Thanks for this site. I know that you will address cl on other issues because he is not through.

Blessings.

Are you saved?

In Christ,

- Jeff H

Bob,

You said, “One of your problems is that you have not made a committment to Christ… So what is your major mal-function ? You are playing a game… Why don’t you glorify God and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and shut down your blog of doubt and confusion?”

Ouch. You’re taking way too much liberty here, Bob. Please stop saying such malicious things about me that you can’t possibly know. You are jumping to conclusions that are so far off the truth I couldn’t even finish reading your comment. I trust that you’ll see the truth about me one day.

Jeff H.,

You’re not even responding to the argument I’m making. Again, you’re still trying to argue theology, when the extent of the point I was making was that people are leaving church in droves precisely because of intolerant and judgmental behavior coming from God’s own.

Do you agree that people are leaving church in droves precisely because of intolerant and judgmental behavior coming from God’s own? Or not? Because I’m willing to bet you have better things to do with your time than try to beat an understanding of the Bible into my head – that I already share.

As for the “know-it-all” remark, I consider myself to know next to nothing, and I found the remark itself ironic.

You wrote: “Did you understand what I said? That people are leaving Christianity in droves for some of the very same attitudes displayed here? Do you agree with that or not?”

Let me ask you a question: If I step out of my parent’s house, do I stop being my dad’s son?

- Jeff H, an adopted son of God through Christ Jesus

I told you before that I have been to your blog and read much of what you have written. You try and split hairs and ride the fence. Say what you will . I am sometimes blunt. I am not intentionally attempting to bring anger. If you think I am judgemental so be it . I do not think that you will ever accept my explanation or that of anyone about judgement and opinions and discipline from God or any other explanation in that arena. When someone shares from the Bible you cry “But you do not know me”. “Spend some time on my blog “. Your writing gives you away. One of your problems is that you have not made a committment to Christ . Have you ? Huh ? Have you ? Are you a Christian ? You claim to be an agnostic. If you want to call what you are something else and make it sound better, do what you like. The Biblical teaching on salvation shows that a change of heart takes place and a person is a new creation. Now what is the result of that? Plain truth…
Without Christ as your Savior and the fruits of the Spirit being evident, their is no new life. No relationship. No eternal life.
If that is what you choose that is up to you ,but guess what comes next? It is appointed for mankind to die and then comes the “judgement”. What God has shared in His Word and how he doles His judgement to the lost without His forgiveness is God judging, not me. Because I share this does not mean I am judging you. I could lie and make up a bunch of things like ,” as long as you are good to your fellowman and do not offend them everything will be ok and you will inherit eternal life”. Ring-aling-aling. Wrong. That is not what scripture says. The actual meaning of the word believe means to trust and obey. You believe ? You trust and obey Christ ? How?
Where is your fruit? Not on your blog. not by what you have written to anyone here.

You can say I am rude and that I do not glorify God. Why? Because I am honest and share what the Bible states. You do not like that. It offends you. That is what the Gospel and the Word will do when someone will deny the Word or ride the fence.

Oh yes…love and tolerance. A true Christian would not purposely mislead and continue talking in circles about their spiritual life. You are not a Christian by your own denial.
So what is your major mal-function ? You are playing a game . Now if I say that is only my opinion , are those the words you want to hear so it will not be judging?
For you are there any absolutes ?

Why don’t you glorify God and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and shut down your blog of doubt and confusion? Does that offend you ? It probably will and I am not trying to.

What some folks do from time to time is to be critical and judgemental to the point that they think they make the other person look like they have no care or love at all and so they are not Christians. Where is the love? Where is the grace? Where is the understanding? But the approach you take can look that way. I would say that people here have given you much of their time and patience. Some of the same things are discussed over and over but explained in different words by different individuals. If you disagree than let it go. Let it go cl.
Move on. If you do not accept the Bible as truth and as God’s Word so be it. That is your choice. To continue living in doubt
and no absolute in this life can be a serious , painful experience and a lack of peace. Repentance would radically alter your life.
Your choice.

You wrote: “Please, try to find some common ground with me here.”

Friend, if you have rejected the free offer of salvation from Jesus Christ, the we REALLY have NOTHING in common… I’m sorry for you.

Careful, cl, the DEMONS believe… and tremble.

(Are you in Jesus too, cl?)

P.S. cl, you wrote that a cheap watch you had when you were a kid broke one day. Then you prayed for God to fix it (to show you that He really exists), and when He didn’t respond to your pharisaical (or doubting Thomas) ‘show me and I’ll believe’ request… you stated that you began a quest to find out about God.

The God of the Bible tells you everything you need to know about Him in His precious Word… and He states it clearly.

My apologies. I looked back and noticed that I had overlooked a reply to you. I work a large number of hours in two different jobs and my work schedule is very wearing on the body of an old man! LOL I will get back to you as quickly as possible.

The Desert Pastor

On September 3, 2009 at 8:22 pm, you told me, “The Bible makes it clear what the ground rules are in regards to judging another. If their actions do not line up with Scripture, and there is no repentance, and no turning from sin – there is NO LIFE in that individual. The Bible allows believers to make that call when necessary. Must get to work, but will elaborate further at another time.”

Pastor, you never came back to elaborate like you said you would, so how is it fair to return without said elaboration and then claim that you “did present a biblical explanation in regards to judgment and discipline” that I chose to ignore? You didn’t even keep your word to me. Was “your work” more important?

Bob,

You said, “cl would be happy if all Christians would all clump together like Custer and his men and let all the indians ( American Natives), run you over and say “Please don’t hurt us”.”

Bob, how does making unfounded assumptions about me glorify God? I find it rude. As for the meat of the discussion (about judgment), please don’t misunderstand or misrepresent what I’m saying: yes, we all make judgments every day. Yes, part of Matthew 7 conveys the point that as we judge, so will we be judged. I had a single point in making my first comment here: I felt DP went too far in his judgment of Garrido, and it put me off. Then Jeff H. jumped in, and I felt he had no reason to make some of the comments he made about me.

You said, “As has been stated cl has been told about judgement. What cl does not realise is the fact that not taking sides is like riding the fence. You think that God may exist. Not enough. You are as lost as an atheist without Christ. This is what the Bible teaches.”

How about not making assumptions about people, Bob? I want to tear my shirt right now. That I don’t parade myself as a Christian blogger like you guys does not mean I’m riding the fence about anything. I never said, “I think God may exist;” I said, “I don’t know God exists, but I sure do believe God exists.” Please, slow down and actually read the people you criticize.

You said, “The Christian desires to share Christ and the Word. So far that is not you. Too bad.”

How do you know what I was doing last year, last week, or even this morning? Just as Jesus warned against, you’re making judgments based on mere appearance. If you want to get to know me, visit my blog. Drop me an email. Don’t sit here and speak on what you don’t know. Christ also desires that Christians would evangelize in love and tolerance, and not judge others on mere outward appearances.

Jeff H.

Please, try to find some common ground with me here.

You said, “Your phraseology is important in that it reveals a fundamental ignorance of the biblical theology of salvation and the Church.”

Why assume I’m ignorant when you could have just asked in grace and salt? Does that glorify God? Did you understand what I said? That people are leaving Christianity in droves for some of the very same attitudes displayed here? Do you agree with that or not?

You said, “No, you are wrong again! I quoted Scripture. Those were not my Words, but the Lord’s.”

Jeff, I understand that. Do you understand that each person also has to interpret the Bible? What I’m disagreeing with is the conclusion you’ve taken from Matthew 7 – which is apparently that it’s okay to make judgments about people’s spiritual state when you haven’t even spent more than five minutes getting to know them. You’re just making judgment about me based on mere appearance – what you saw and perceived in a very short period of reading my blog.

You said, “It may be difficult for you to understand Scripture, because it is spiritually discerned.”

Right, because I’m just an unsaved fence-rider. Take care, Jeff H., and hopefully one day a believer whom you actually respect can get through to you.

Your wrote: “My “leaving the gospel in droves” comment was not meant to incite theology class; I was simply saying that certain attitudes drive people away from Christianity.”

Your phraseology is important in that it reveals a fundamental ignorance of the biblical theology of salvation and the Church.

You wrote: “You say, “I’m sorry that you can’t seem to embrace what God says on the subject.”

“No, I can’t seem to embrace what you say God says on the subject. There’s a difference.”

No, you are wrong again! I quoted Scripture. Those were not my Words, but the Lord’s.

You wrote: “I am very interested in the biblical verses that suggest it is okay to for believers to judge others…”

It may be difficult for you to understand Scripture, because it is spiritually discerned. Again, follow Paul’s admonition to examine yourself. Are you saved? You sure?

You wrote: “It’s out of my hands.”

It was never in them… :)

- Jeff H

I have read some of what you have written. It looks like someone that is trying to ride the fence cl.

Thanks for informing me. The Spirit of God is speaking. Are you listening ? The Spirit of Christ will not differ from what is written in the Bible. Have you seriously prayed and asked God to open your spirit and mind? Have you seriously given Christ an honest try? When someone is born-again they know that they know and the Spirit has the witness unto us that we are His. The Christian desires to share Christ and the Word. So far
that is not you. Too bad.

I did present a biblical explanation in regards to judgment and discipline but you have chosen to ignore this. Jeff H. is correct in that you appear to be not interested possibly because it does not line up with your opinion of a holy, righteous God.

The Desert Pastor

John E.,

Sorry I missed your comment to me. You asked, “cl – you recently stated that atheists were as “bad” as Christians when it came to entertaining free-thought arguments. Might I ask what you meant, exactly, and how would you say that your supposed experiences of that compare to here?”

Can you show me the comment of mine you’re alluding to here? That would help me better answer your question.

You said, “..if we are to have these types of discussion, it’s only fair that everyone knows where everyone else stands.”

Of course, and with the exception of a single request, I’ve told you exactly where I stand every time you’ve asked. I also told you that if we could get to a level where you’re not insulting me anymore, then I might be willing to share my religious beliefs with you. But when you’re going off and writing truly hurtful things both to and about me, I just don’t see the point. I struggle to understand what’s so hard to understand about this. Also, the special pleading concerns me: why do you allow yourself to define yourself by what you disbelieve, yet criticize me for doing the same? You know where I stand: I’m not an atheist.

You said, “At least I **know** exactly what Jeff H. believes.”

While you could surely infer some things correctly, I’m willing to bet you don’t. This type of false confidence leads to all sorts of assumptions.

Jeff H,

You said, “When we patiently explained to you the Scriptural references regarding biblical judgment, you were not interested.”

When I told you I wasn’t interested in exegesis, it was because I wanted to focus on what I felt (and still feel) was a judgmental attitude coming from yourself. I am very interested in the biblical verses that suggest it is okay to for believers to judge others and make negative statements about individuals. To my knowledge, DP never came back and provided said verse(s). Matthew 7, which you provided, isn’t what I’m looking for. I don’t think Matthew 7 gives you or anyone the right to prejudge me or anyone else.

You say, “I’m sorry that you can’t seem to embrace what God says on the subject.”

No, I can’t seem to embrace what you say God says on the subject. There’s a difference. Still, no big deal. I’ve already accepted that I’m not going to be able to change your opinion, and that you don’t think you did anything “un-Christian.” It’s out of my hands.

Bob,

You said, “Knowing that God is a fair judge and has given us minds to evaluate certain things I share that cl does seem to ride the fence. cl argues a lot of points. cl seems to be an agnostic. “Ride the fence” and actually battle with everyone.”

I can’t say I agree with all of that. Am I agnostic? Of course, because I’m honest: I don’t know God exists; I sure do believe it. Does that mean I “ride the fence” as you say? I don’t think so at all, and I don’t think you or any other people need to be making judgments in that area. As far as “battle with everyone,” when it comes to argumentation, I take pride in not taking sides, and that’s one of the reasons I don’t label myself on my blog. I think you should spend more time reading me, should the Spirit lead. It will help you make an informed judgment.

My statement about a born-again person losing salvation stirred some thought about the chaplain. She told me that she was genuine in her faith but then over some time of anguish and searching that she realised that there was no God. My thought here was that she thought she was a Christian (and was a minister) but determined that what she believed in the past was an illusion and falsehood. I asked her if she was saved in the first place at all or did she backslide ( she was Wesleyan-Arminian ) and she was very upset with me.I could sense her reflection here and still holding on to old Wesleyan ways. Makes you wonder. I feel sorry for people that are blinded without Christ in their lives.

Do not forget to pray for these folks. They need the Lord like everyone else. Also pray for protection and wisdom for yourselves because the evil one is moving about in strange ways in these last days.

One more thing. Watch out for some of the sites you visit. Watch out and protect your E-Mail address. I had someone phishing and attempting to get my password and info. Also some of these atheist bloggers may use your E-Mail address and seek out info about you and maybe use it to cause some grief. I have already seen some type of threat.

Blessings

If ‘holding onto salvation’ required ANYTHING of me, I’d be lost for sure!

Thank you Lord Jesus for the elect… for knowing You would save me before You had even created me.

Most of all I am thankful to Lord Jesus for saving me IN SPITE of my wretchedness and complete unworthiness.

In Him,

- Jeff H

Amen and amen!

I want to say “Amen!” to that. There is a strange thought circulating about, by which it is sometimes said that the salvation of the Lord, which comes by His grace through faith, can be lost, stolen, or rejected. In response to this strange thought, there is probably a nicer word than “heresy,” but I can’t think of it.

Let those of us who are born again, the elect of God according to His grace and mercy, remember that we did not save ourselves, and we are utterly incapable of “keeping ourselves saved.” Many modern translations of the Bible get a key phrase in Philippians 3:9 wrong. They say that righteousness is “through faith ‘in’ Christ.” The King James (not the New King James) Version hits the nail right on the head when it says that, “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith ‘of’ Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

Today, as I type this, I am found in Jesus Christ. I am righteous in the sight of God only because the righteousness of His dear Son has been imputed to me. The eternal continuance of this gift of righteousness is not because of my great faith. It is because of the wondrous, magnificent, awe-inspiring, unchanging, never-ending faith of Christ Himself.

You wrote:

“I’m done with it.”

“Well, I was done with it…”

“Really, I’m done.”

No one has asked you to leave yet as far as I know. The concerns expressed by us here pertained to your use of the word “judge” in various forms to the exclusion of all else.

Your response was: “I’m not interested in biblical exposition right now.”

I’m sorry that you can’t seem to embrace what God says on the subject.

- Jeff

___________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bob,

Thank you very much for your insights!

You are right in that we both know that the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance.

You wrote: “I would eat the last donut.”

Not if I get it first!

Blessings,

Jeff H

Atheists do run together to different sites and many do have a plan to disrupt religious freedom and that of the Christian. I have been told by an atheist that her plan was to cause doubt and pull away as many from the faith as possible. Interesting that Christians have before them this issue. Is it possible for a born-again Christian to fall away from God at the working of any body including seducing spirits ? You would have different points of view depending upon a Calvinistic view or Arminian.

One final point. I feel both atheists and agnostics are people without Christ. All need the salvation through Jesus and his free gift paid for by His own blood. Atheists think they know that there is no God. Agnostics think that there may be a God. Christians know there is a God and His Name is Yeshua-Jesus.

Too bad we could not sit down face to face. Imagine having two hours together with coffee and donuts or bagels. We could talk about many things and realise that we could gain from one anothers company . We would have to let Phillychief have the last comment. I would eat the last donut.

I’m not angry. I’m not offended. I’m honestly just curious to see if you can’t see even a grain of truth in anything I’ve said. I read the “rules of engagement” after my first and second comments here. Since folks seem to be mentioning the rules all of a sudden, note that although Philly’s question was deleted, as was SI’s support of Philly’s question – Gideon’s disparaging remark against Philly was allowed to remain published – despite the fact that “rule of engagement” number 5 states that “demeaning” or “insulting” comments will not be tolerated. The message I’m getting is that demeaning or insulting comments are tolerated – when made against atheists. So let’s stop talking about the “rules of engagement.”

Really, I’m done. You don’t think you erred at all, there’s nothing I can do. “It’s in God’s hands now,” as the saying goes.

Pastor’s Wife,

Please. I’ve not used any of the phrases from “Rule #10,” nor am I hear “under the guise” of anything, but if you folks simply want to silence those who don’t lull along in thoughtless agreement, I can’t stop you. Honestly – of course nobody should condone Garrido’s behavior – but what is any of this that we call Christianity if we’re sitting here calling Garrido – the man – names? What is any of this if I’m judged as “straddling the fence” because my blog received an award from an atheist and I dared to publish it? Apparently, folks are okay with that. I respectfully disagree, as I still have not heard a good explanation for how the Bible permits that sort of reasoning.

Also, I too would be fascinated to hear your “testimony” or whatever you might choose to call it. Quite honestly, if we are to have these types of discussion, it’s only fair that everyone knows where everyone else stands. At least I **know** exactly what Jeff H. believes.

In fact, regarding cl’s ‘boot-ability’, Rule 6 applies:

“6). We will not tolerate your intolerance of our intolerance.”

cl,

For your benefit, I will also list Rules 5 and 10 below:

“5). If you leave comments under the guise of being a fellow Christian, yet you consistently espouse ideas antithetical to the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith, expect that your comments in particular to be moderated much more carefully. It usually takes just one comment from false teachers for our discernment meters to register something is wrong. We will not provide a platform for you to spread your “Hath God said” seeds of doubt and outright damnable heresies but instead, you will be stripped of the sheep’s cloak you’ve disguised yourself in and you will be driven from the flock like the wolf you are.”

“10). If your comment contains any of the following, (combination of the following or variation of the following) remarks:

“Judge not!”

“You’re a Pharisee.”

“You’re Self-Righteous.”

“Touch not God’s anointed.”

Then there’s a good chance your comment will not see the light of day. Although we are not averse to disagreement and debate, we do not have the time to deal with such baseless, Biblically illiterate, shallow platitudes and twisting of Scripture. It’s like calling the proponent of legal immigration a “racist” without ever intellectually discussing the matter. It slyly changes the focus of the debate from the issue itself and places it onto your opponent’s character. This sinisterly clever polarization of your opponent puts him on the defense and you think you’ve won the debate. We seriously do not have the time to play these games. Your argument should be the persuasive element to the debate, not your Orwellian-style doublespeak.”

So there you have it, cl.

2 Corinthians 6:2 declares that today is the day of salvation:

“For he says,

Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”

Make your election sure, cl.

- Jeff H