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Posts by DefCon Contributors
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Pilgrim
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thejunglemissionary
- Liberia Update from The Jungle Missionary
- Sermon of the Week: “The Bible’s View on Missions – Part 9 (Conclusion)” by Akash Sant Singh
- Sermon of the Week: “The Bible’s View on Missions – Part 8″ by Akash Sant Singh
- A Liberia Update!
- Sermon of the Week: “The Bible’s View on Missions – Part 7″ by Akash Sant Singh
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Bill
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fourpointer
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Manfred
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abidingthroughgrace
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Chris Hohnholz
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Contributors
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Do you have a passion for God?
This entry was posted in Random Selections and tagged Christianity, God, Jesus, Paul Washer. Bookmark the permalink.
speaking of seeker-sensitive . . .
Um, I have a problem with his opening. Can someone tell me where in the Bible passion = love for God? I’ve heard emotionally manipulative pastors speak this way.
I read in the Bible that love is evidenced by obedience. I don’t read that passion – emotional fervor – is THE evidence of love.
Amen on hating sin, growing more in that and growing more in love for God. Understanding how gross sin is. Ain’t no problem with the rest of this video (except the music is bothering me). And his comment at the end that “when the worship leader gets up here, this place ought to go WILD!”
In my limited exposure to Washer, he comes across as too near the edge of his emotional cliff. I posted a comment about him under Quote 518:
In a message from 2005 or so, at a small church in north Texas, Washer was commenting about the church youth who were disrespectful to him earlier that day. While rebuking the youth at the evening service, Washer compared himself to Elisha, saying that they should reckon whom they were disrespecting, as a bear might come out the woods and eat them up. Next evening, he told the men in the front row of the meeting that he knew suffering for Christ (based on his mission work in South America) and that he was man enough to take out all them in the first row.
Now, I have no doubt about Washer’s heart for the Lord nor his service and suffering therein. But nobody of whom God hasn’t spoken such stuff about ought to open his mouth in such a manner as did Washer that evening.
I believe many people have been saved that I would never want to hear a sermon from cuz they’d stick there foot in their mouth and not deliver the Lords message properly, as well as many people that are saved and could give good enough sermons to build a nice big congregation on, as well as many people that are saved and can give a good sermon that noone would want to sit in church for on a regular basis. My point is that I am on the lookout for sermons being LIVED by those who have been saved, not preached for money, which corrupts, or on youtube or on TV, or in order to build the biggest megachurch. That’s a hard thing to find in today’s world. PEOPLE that are living and breathing sermons as ambassadors of Jesus Christ and HIS gospel and not for one red cent of filthy lucre or for power or for fame. Ya know what I’m sayin?
Let us not overlook the fact that we are all still in the flesh, and we should pray for one another. There seems to be a growing ‘critical spirit’ coming from professing believers; what happened to humility, and love? We seem to want to nitpick every word that comes from certain mens’ mouths. If what they are preaching cannot be found in scripture, that’s one thing. But, to pick them apart over trivial things is another. I have read vicious attacks against Washer and J. MacArthur as well, just to mention a few. All these verbal attacks came from ‘within’. Both of these men are well known for their sound biblical teaching, so why do we grumble and complain against them? Is that not a sin in itself?
As for this claim against Washer, shouldn’t you go to him via his website and handle this biblically, rather than post it here?
Simply put, if Washer bothers you, don’t listen to him.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with the word ‘passion’. It is what my heart desires.
Are you saying this website and forum is “a sin in itself”? Noone is perfect and that’s why we discuss where someone may have erred I.E. Joseph Smith, Roman Catholics, Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Evangelicals, Seventh Day Adventists, Lukewarm Christians, Joel Osteen, New Agers, POP Christianity, Islam, Freemasonry, Evolutionists as well as all those who are putting themselves out there professing to preach Christ’s Gospel. Christ’s sacrifice was necessary because of ALL of our imperfections including those within his fold.
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall
come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead
captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers
lusts, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Lyn,
Public speakers are open to public criticism – there is NO biblical warrant to confront one with sin unless he sins against you. Having said that, criticism of a public figure in the brotherhood of Christ should not be hateful or spiteful – which I don’t think I was.
Passion is not a bad thing – people tell me I have passion for the Truth and so forth. All I was asking is does the Bible tell us what Washer said – that passion is THE evidence?
I don’t listen to Washer much – not because I think he’s wrong. I think he’s on target more than most preachers. He’s the spinach in my salad – I don’t like it, that’s all. Voddie Baucham – he’s the carrots in my salad, like him lots. Don’t agree with everything I’ve heard or read from him, either. But then, I don’t agree with me much of the time – I am not all that I know I should be.
Thanks for your response Manfred, I understand we do not like every man’s approach and demeanor as they preach God’s word; perhaps if you would have said that from the start there would have been no confusion. I too enjoy Voddie Baucham, with that said, we can agree to disagree on Paul Washer.
Grace
Could you explain the verses you quoted, i.e., how they pertain or are relevant to this posting?
There are many Christian Preachers who “have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof”.
This is true Grace, but, God gifts His own with discernment to distinguish between ‘good and bad’.
Thanks for posting this video Lyn. As always, very convicting.
I personally did not have a problem with his opening. In the New Testament we see that all the Disciples and Apostles had a “passion” for God.
Granted, one can have a passion for music, money, cars, or gardening, but if one truly loves God, you should expect to see some degree of passion.
This, however, does not prove one’s salvation. Many will say to Him on that day “Lord, Lord.” No doubt some of them had a “passion” but it certainly wasn’t for God and God alone.
So in a nut shell, you can have a passion for many things in life but that does not = love for God. However, I believe if you love God, you will have a passion for Him.
I hope that made sense.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
Pilgrim,
It makes perfect sense, thank you for your response.
I will add I don’t agree with the statement made by Manfred claiming that public speakers are open to public criticism, especially when the speaker happens to be a brother in Christ. Again, I think we too often forget to love one another and remain humble.
I have heard Washer say others claim he is arrogant and prideful, to which he agreed. He knows he is flesh and blood in need of continual repentance; aren’t we all?
I do not follow Washer, I follow Christ. But, I think part of the unity of the body of Christ should be to pray for one another, love one another, and thank God for one another.
Criticism against the body of Christ should never be a trait of a believer, it is sin. There really is no defending it. Unless a brother or sister steps outside the boundaries of Scripture, we should not speak against them. As Matthew Henry says, ‘Our lips must be guided by the law of kindness, as well as truth and justice. It is required of us that we be tender of the good name of our brethren; where we cannot speak well, we had better say nothing than speak evil’ — commentary on James 4:11
With apostasy running rampant, I believe we need to pray for the faithful preachers. They are still only human. None of us are wise in every word we speak. I do not think we need to criticise or always speak up about things they say we don’t agree with. Our Father has gifted us with these men at a time when truth is seldom heard. They need our prayers and support, or we become like the Israelites always grumbling and complaining
Manfred,
With all due respect, in answering your question Um, I have a problem with his opening. Can someone tell me where in the Bible passion = love for God? I’ve heard emotionally manipulative pastors speak this way, I would point you to King David, and what the prophet Samuel said of him in 1st Samuel 13:14–”YHVH has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and YHVH has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the LORD commanded you.” Add to that the fact that he desired to build a temple for God, and I dare say that he had a “passion for God.”
I really don’t desire God…not like I should anyway.
He said, “If you love me you will keep my Commandments”.
I guess there are too many out there that love Him. (like…nobody)
BUT!…
He loves us! That’s the Good News!
“So in a nut shell, you can have a passion for many things in life but that does not = love for God. However, I believe if you love God, you will have a passion for Him.”
I agree with that statement, and I admire Paul Washer for being so forthright, which is getting rarer among pastors today. But, while I think it’s good to be passionate about the Lord, I wonder too sometimes if it’s the passion of the speaker that attracts folks more, not the Person of the gospel.
I think that’s what we have to be careful about when we talk about passion, because I’ve noticed this trend in both charismatic and reformed preachers – that when the emotion wears off from a powerful sermon, many times so does the message. Let’s hope this isn’t the case with Paul Washer, and that lives are being permanently changed by the message He carries about Christ, not just his passion in presenting it.
God bless.
fourpointer,
I ain’t denying that it’s a characteristic of the redeemed to have a passion for God. Washer starts out in this video saying the actions, etc. are not love; that love = passion. He says this with passion. Here’s the question: does the Bible equate passion with love? I read that it equates obedience with love.
We’re taught in my church that “good deeds” must have right action, right objective, and right motive. So Paul Washer’s introductory statement – prior to the love = passion statement – is true, because key elements were not included. But does being passionate (and perhaps we need to define that term) make something good?
Was Christ “passionate” when His face was like flint as He approached Jerusalem?
I’m not trying to slam Washer.
But everything that comes from the mouth of man is to be tested.
It’s been less than a year since I left a church wherein the preacher tended to sensationalize his message, ostensibly to “connect”. I’m of the opinion that preachers do this type of thing for the same reason all speakers do – they want their audience to pay attention.
My elders preach with passion. It’s obvious.
The question is does love = passion? I’m not sure that is true. I am certain there is a connection.
Manfred,
We’re taught in my church that “good deeds” must have right action, right objective, and right motive.
Absolutely true. That was the Pharisees’ problem: they were doing the “right things” for the wrong reasons.
But does being passionate (and perhaps we need to define that term) make something good?
If the thing one is passionate about is of God, then yes, it is good. In Galatians 4:18, Paul encourages the Christians there to be zealous toward God: “But it is good to be zealous in a good thing always, and not only when I am present with you.”
I, personally, would put the two (passion and love) in at least close proximity to each other. If we read the letters that He commanded John to write to the seven churches in Revelation, He saved some of His most scathing words for the church that was simply “going through the motions” (that church, of course, being Laodicea). What warning did He give them? “Because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” Why did Jesus warn them that He would “spit them out?” Because they had no zeal. No “passion” for the things of God. He was basically saying, “Look, wake up and do the things I have commanded. Otherwise, take My name off your gathering.”
If a child of God truly loves God, then I believe there should be a zeal for God. Now, can a person love God, be saved, and be “ho-hum” about Him? It is possible. But, by the same token, that “ho-hum” attitude will grow into a coldness toward doing the things God calls them to do, eventually leading to disobedience. Also, think of the blessings that person misses out on. Paul tells Titus that Christ “gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works” (Titus 2:14).
I for one don’t see anything wrong with calling the people of God to be passionate about the God they serve.
We may agree to disagree on this. That’s my $0.02
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
I received this personal e-mail from a reader of Defcon; I wanted to share what she has to say about brother Paul Washer…
“It was actually because of Washer – the Lord used him – that I came to understand the doctrines of grace. I couldn’t believe I’d gone almost 40 yrs. without EVER hearing these things said. Some things rankled me a bit, but they somehow rang true and when I searched them out, I discovered it WAS the truth. The same can be said of my husband’s conversion.
I have begun to study the sermon on the mount and am using Matthew Henry’s commentary. One of the things he said re: being poor in spirit is that we “look with a holy contempt upon ourselves, to value others and undervalue ourselves in comparison of them…to be willing to make ourselves cheap, and mean, and little, to do good”. I also heard Washer say in the recent Q and A session from Denmark on the biblical church how we need to be very careful with one another and to show more preference for others. Even the “least” in the kingdom of God is one He purchased with His blood. This has been something being driven home n my own heart. We are what we are by the grace of God and no one can boast re: their understanding, etc. I realized how prideful I have been at times and had to confess it to the Lord.
Anyway, didn’t mean to get off on a tangent, but even the best of men (if such a thing can be said), are but, men. We are too quick to bite and devour one another rather than display charity. George Whitefield is a great example of someone who displayed great charity towards those who differed from him in some things and even those who caused him harm. It was humbling to read this man’s biography, but he was not a perfect man. I see many similarities between Whitefield and Washer – we need men like that today.
We do well to think more highly of others than ourselves”…
This is how God gets glory for Himself, through His people, men like Paul Washer. May we lift our brothers and sisters to the Lord in prayer, may we cherish them as our Lord does, giving thanks for each and every one.
well said lyn, i’m liking more and more with each of your posts. ;-)
Jude, I almost missed oyur great comment because of all the posted responses, but THANK YOU for your insight, spot on!
The more I studied the Holiness of God and doctrine of sin the more dear Jesus was to me.
The sermon on the mount broke me and changed me into more Christ like person.
I know that I forget how great a sinner I am and how great and Holy God is, if I’m not reading His Word.
How deep the Father’s love for us,
How vast beyond all measure
That He should give His only Son
To make a wretch His treasure
I will not boast in anything
No gifts, no power, no wisdom
But I will boast in Jesus Christ
His death and resurrection