I do not fault the intent of anyone asking Jesus to come into their heart. It reflects they want Jesus. But here’s the issue: What does the Bible say? Do we see anyone asking Jesus to come into their heart in Scripture, either while Jesus walked the earth, or in Acts? Or is it taught in the epistles?

A lot rides on the issues of faith and repentance. When we truly believe the Gospel , we repent (turn around FROM following/obeying/submitting to the fallen human nature has been our normal behavior, and turn TO submission to God’s Word of truth). God the Holy Spirit is sent from the Father, by Jesus, to dwell within us. We don’t need to ask Him to. It’s part of the process that He performs. He makes us new creatures, we are given a new nature, and are grafted onto The Vine, through which we draw our very life, He adopts us as His children.

The thief on the cross displayed: 1) Belief in the basic truths of the Gospel (Who Jesus is, that he (the thief) was deserving of death, that he trusted in Jesus’ power to forgive him), and 2) He asked for the Lord’s mercy upon him. He may not have verbalized a studied and formalized version of the Gospel, but he displayed true repentance and belief. Notice he never said anything like: “Jesus, I invite you into my heart”.

Thus the problem with “asking Jesus to come into my heart” by-passes that whole process. God cannot dwell in a being who is separated from Him because of sin. Do you see the difference?

If you want to know about the doctrines of grace, I suggest you read Dr. James Boice’s book entitled ‘Whatever Happened to the Gospel of Grace, Rediscovering the Doctrines that Shook the World’.

Lyn

It seems like you didn’t read the original post.

Why would you say don’t ask Jesus into your heart, if you don’t you will go to Hell.

This is not about keeping people from “knowing Jesus better”. It is about lying to them, telling them they have come into a relationshipo with Christ when they are still dead in their sin and the wrath of God abides upon them. While it might make us happy that we are “making disciples” all we are doing is filling pews and hell with false converts.

-Jim

“Baptism represents following Christ to the grave and we come up renewed (risen to a new life) then we receive a gift (sorta like a welcome home gift) the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit is the identifying mark that makes one a christian and the only way to get that mark is through baptism. So yes, essentially baptism does save us. 1 Peter 3:21.”

Erin, are you truly saying that the believer is given the Holy Spirit at baptism and baptism saves us?

Sincerely,
-atg

“So your a calvinist”

Only speaking for myself, I am not a “calvinist”.

Do you belong to a denomination?

-Jim

You are on the threshold of breaking rule # 2, 3, and 4 at this time. As a former contributor to this blog, I feel it may be necessary to bring your comments to the attention of those who maintain this blog.

thank you
Lyn

You may want to read this http://defendingcontending.com/2009/03/28/monergism-vs-synergism/

In Christ,
Lyn

One thing I have learned is that I need to be alot sharper, to deal with people like you all. You always have an answer for everything and yours is always the right way (according to you).

Baptism is NOT a means of attaining the Spirit of God; again, one last time, let us go into the word of God…

First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.” Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation.

How do we get the Holy Spirit? Not by undergoing a water baptism, but a baptism of the Spirit. From 2 Corinthians 1:22, ‘Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.’ Who seals us with His Spirit Erin, according to God’s word? Back up one verse, 2Cor. 1:21 ‘Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;’

Ask yourself this Erin, if God seals us, how is it you can claim baptism is necessary?

As for 1 Peter 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: from John MacArthur..

What that verse is saying is that…Peter has just talked about…First, we are talking about 1 Peter 3:18. Christ has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that He might bring us to God, and so forth. It talks about there Christ’s provision of salvation. And then it says that when His body was on the cross dead, His spirit was alive–not the Holy Spirit there in verse 18–but His spirit. And, He went and preached to the spirits in prison. And, I believe these were demon beings, and the word “preach” is not “to preach the gospel” euaggelizo, but kerusso, “to proclaim a triumph.”
I believe, that when He was dying on the cross (this is a marvelous truth), when He was dying on the cross, it looked to Hell and the demons like perhaps they had won the victory. And, so, at the very moment when His body was dead, during that period of time, “His spirit was alive,” it says in verse 18, and He went right down into the prison where the spirits are kept. And, you want to know what spirits they were? Verse 20 says they were the ones disobedient during the time of Noah. And, you remember, in those days, in the time of Noah, God sent the flood because the sons of God co-mingled with the daughters of men. So they were spirit beings who cohabited with women creating a sort of “Rosemary Baby” race of people, and God destroyed them all in the flood. So, these are demon spirits. That is all you really need to know. He went into the place, proclaimed a triumph over the demon spirits, even in the midst of His death.
And then, it talks about the Ark in which people were saved by water. The Ark, then, becomes a symbol. And, in verse 21, “The like figure under which even baptism doth also now save us. But, it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.” In other words, He is saying that as that Ark was saved in water, so are we saved in water. But, it is not external water. Do you see that? It is not the water that washes the flesh, the physical body. Not that at all. But, it is that purification of the conscience. It is the purification of the conscience that He is really referring to. In other words, it is symbolic as the ship was saved by the water. It floated on the water. The water was its salvation. So, we are saved by a certain kind of being in water. But, it is not the water of the physical baptism. What water is it? Titus 3:5, tells us, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saved us”…here it comes…”by the washing of regeneration.” Okay? It is that washing of the heart.
Now, you go back with Peter and go back with Paul to a Jewish concept that really starts in the New Testament with Nicodemus, doesn’t it? Jesus says, “You must be born of”…what?…”water,” John 3, “and spirit.” What water was that? Well, what would Nicodemus understand? Nicodemus was a Jew. He was The Teacher in Israel. He was erudite scholar of the Old Testament. And, he would know that back in Ezekiel’s prophecy, in Chapter 36, Ezekiel said someday God is going to come in a unique way, and He is going to wash you with clean water. Take out the stony heart and give you a heart of flesh, and put His spirit within you. So, Nicodemus knew that someday the Messiah would come and He would do a washing work in the heart and plant the spirit. That is the water and the spirit of John 3. And, so, water, which, always in the Old Testament, was outward cleansing symbolized inward cleansing, always does the same in the New. So that the Ark, then, becomes a figure of being saved through a water. And, that water is not an external baptism. This verse in Peter argues against baptismal regeneration, but rather, a washing of the heart through the working of God and forgiveness through Christ.

Concerning 1 Peter 3:21, from Dr. James White…

But, someone will surely object, Peter himself said that “baptism saves us” in 1 Peter 3:21. Let’s look at the passage in context:
“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who were disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand–with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.”
…we point out that foremost in Peter’s mind, again, is the death of Christ as the sacrifice for sin. Men are brought to God, not by what they do, but what God has done in Christ Jesus (v. 18). Upon the heels of this he mentions God’s act of judgment in the days of Noah. At that time eight souls were saved through water. Peter then says that this water “symbolizes” baptism (as the NIV translates the Greek term antitupon, literally, “antitype”). Baptism now saves us, Peter says–just as the water “saved” Noah and his family. But, of course, we know that Peter was not asserting that there was some salvific aspect to the flood waters themselves–God shut up the ark, and God saved Noah and his family. But the water is a symbol, Peter says, a symbol seen now in baptism. But is Peter dropping the symbolization so as to make baptism the means of salvation? Certainly not. Dr. Wuest has commented so well that we give his words at length:
Water baptism is clearly in the apostle’s mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word “counterpart.” So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type….Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer’s inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.” Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words “the answer of a good conscience toward God,” and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, “by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,” in that he believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.

baptism marks you with the holy spirit, just as circumcision marked Abraham and his descendants. Both are acts done in faith. With that said, 1Peter 3:21 then verifies that.

You stated “The way one is born again is by believing and obeying the gospel.” Then you follow that up with, “Prior to being born again ALL are dead in their sins without the hope of eternal life with Christ”. With that said, what have I said that differs from what you say you believe?

Erin,

I have gone back over your comments, and this is a summary, according to your own words, of what you believe…

1. Yes, you need to believe & repent but you need to be baptized to become a child of God and then have entry into His kingdom.
2. Everyone who realized what they needed to be doing to follow Christ, stopped and got baptized ASAP!
3. Since being baptized things are different, the word is opened up to me
4. I attribute all of that to following Jesus Christ to the grave through water baptism.
5. Faith without works is dead. Baptism is a work and is done in faith and is humbling.
6. So does baptism save us? Yes, because we are following Christ to His death, humility is involved, death to ones self, freedom is obtained, the command is followed.
7. The keys are key to entering through a locked door and John 3:3 and John 3:5 & 6 reiterate that.
8. The baptism of John was not fully complete until after Jesus’ death, resurrection and then pentecost
9. Can you not see the gift that is given in baptism? How else can you tap into that? Yes, the blood of Jesus is the most important! The only time you come in contact with the blood is through baptism. Once you have the Holy Spirit, He can then lead you and guide you.
10. John the baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (baptism after Jesus’ death & resurrection Acts 2:38) “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
11.The only time you come in contact with the blood is through baptism
12. Does not one enter the kingdom of God while here on earth?
13. I trust my God!
14. The way one is born again is by believing and obeying the gospel.

You seem to be all over the charts with what you believe, but to sum it up, your own words testify that you believe salvation is based on a work, something you must do…in this case, baptism {see #1, 6}. You attribute your ‘changed life’ not to the new birth, but to a work you have done {see #3}. I think we need go no farther, you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth, you claim to understand the Gospel but you adhere to a salvation by works. Your complete wholehearted trust is not in the finished work of Christ, it is in Christ plus your water baptism. You are in very very dangerous and deep error and still dead in your sins.

I find it interesting how you all interpret the the word of God. I now wonder about topics such as speaking in tongues, communion, who the children of Israel are today, heaven, hell, the rapture or the return of Christ. I dont even want to go there though.

Notice in all these verses how one is born again, by God, according to His will. You cannot believe and obey unless He first rebirths you Erin. You are still attributing salvation with something you must do, you are in error.

You are dead in sin, unable to respond to the things of God {Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 4-5, But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) ;} that being said, I ask you this, how does a dead person respond to the Gospel call?

grace and peace,
Lyn

It seems to me you don’t have a grasp on the gospel or the gravity of your sin. Therefore, you are not saved, despite your feelings and experiences.

Our sin is against an infinitely holy God, and we are deserving of an infinite penalty. Either Jesus paid that penalty on our behalf or He didn’t. If He has paid it, then He has paid it. You don’t have to do X, Y and Z to receive it. What an insult that is to Christ! Is His sacrifice adequate or not?

It is clear to me you are unwilling or incapable of understanding what Lyn and Jim have attempted to explain. Your only hope for eternity is the cross of Christ, not any of the filthy rags you have to offer.

Thanks,
Bill

grace and peace to you friend,
Lyn

Question: “When / How do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Answer: The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.

This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation.

In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe. from http://gotquestions.org

When God saves a sinner, He seals that redeemed sinner with His Spirit, we are kept by the power of God until the day we die. He does it Erin, we do nothing to receive His Spirit, no work, no ritual. Please pull yourself away from the person [s] who is filling your head with a false teaching and a false gospel. You cannot earn salvation, nor can you receive His Spirit apart from being supernaturally born from above – John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.