In regard to this blog post, Ephesians 5 came to my mind as I have been studying it due to my own sin.

Therefore be imitators of God as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

Continue to read that whole chapter asking the Spirit to speak truth no matter what any other man says outside of Paul.

I don’t mind pastors and teachers, but when the christian community starts to idolize them and stops using their own brain which God gave them, then I have a problem. Pastors and teachers are good, but we have misused their gifts and the church itself will decay because of it.

With all due respect, your assessment is pragmatic (looking at what one perceives to be successful results) rather than that which is Biblically sound. I have firsthand knowledge as well. One of my sisters was once a wonderful Christian lady, teaching the truths of God’s Word to many and lived in submission to it. Since attending Driscoll’s church for several years, she now uses God’s name blasphemously, is a drunkard, enjoys and tells foul jokes, enjoys the most degenerate movies, has married an unsaved man (who she got quick “saved” at Driscoll’s church to “legitimize” her marriage, yet who shows absolutely no fruit of true repentance), and is antagonistic to what she once held dear regarding God’s truth and righteousness. Yet continues to faithfully attend her Mars Hill Church, and weekly “community group”. And I’ve personally known several people who became “better” people (more moral, more “loving” and giving, more “religious”) after converting to Catholicism than they were before.

Thus fruit, real fruit, is manifested not in mere “changed behavior” but in true regeneration. True fruit of regeneration includes behavior AND belief which is in harmony and accord with the whole of the Word of God.

That Driscoll does not preach the Biblical Jesus has been documented from his own words profusely on this site. That he is a blasphemer and a teacher of false doctrine has also been documented. His own testimony in his own words reveal his faulty foundation, which he replicates to his followers.

The fruit of the genuine born again believer is to be repelled by false teachers, and to be attracted to true, undefiled Biblical doctrine.

As a side note: I’ve also lived in the Seattle area for many years. The idea that it is one of the “least Christian” areas in the country is nothing but misinformation, (which, not coincidently, is highly touted by Driscoll to bolster his “ministry” to the area). I’ve also lived in several metropolitan areas of southern and central California. And between Seattle and California, I’d have to say there is little to no difference in the amount of Christians I have found.

I encourage you to test men like Driscoll according to the Scriptures, rather than be superficial observation.

There are so many wonder Pastors in this country that tell it like it is and preach it straight. Regardless of your husbands background or comfort levels (or any of ours for that matter) the Gospel is what saves and the Gospel is what changes people. Love for Christ, which is found by being saturated with the Word of God, prayer, and good teaching will surpass any blue collar/white collar/college/no college backgrounds. Amazing men in the history of the Christian faith (Hudson Taylor, William Carey, CT Studd and hundreds of others) have gone into non-english speaking tribal and 3rd world countries preach the Word of God straight. These men didn’t have to speak in a certain way to reach the culture. They simply had to make the Gospel clear in their language and God does the work. The same is true in America today. We don’t need to contextualize to a rough crowd or a bunch of bikers or athletes or bankers or physicists. We need to give them the Gospel straight…which means we also need to attend churches that teach in this manner and not attend churches if they are afraid to preach truth.

I am very interested to know what kind of church you do attend and maybe we can help you find a solid Christ exalting preacher in your town. We only have 2 churches in my metropolitan area of 500,000+ people, but we found them and we help others find them. Then take time listening to the good ones online for sure. We can recommend tons of great pastors such as:

Look on http://www.sermonaudio.com, Itunes podcasts, and church websites for these as a sampling
1. John Macarthur
2. Brian Borgman – minden, NV
3. Albert Mohler of Southern Seminary
4. Russel Moore
5. Voddie Baucham
6. Paul Washer
7. Jeff Noblit of Alabama
8. Phil Johnson – grace to you
9. John Piper (some on this blog would disagree with me here, but Piper’s sermons are a great resource)
10. Robert Briggs – Sacramento
11. Sam Waldron – Kentucky
12. Richard Barcellos – Southern California – Mojave, I think
13. Albert Martin & David Chanski – new jersey
14. Mark Chanski – Holland, Michigan
15. Joel Beeke – Grand Rapids (I think)
16. Ligon Duncan – Jackson, MS
17. Sinclair Ferguson – south carolina

And the list goes on and on and on and on. We might not agree with every doctrinal position, but the preach the Gospel straight and direct and in a Christ Exalting way.

I hope that this is of some help and I would love to help you find someone in your town if you are willing to name the city where you live. I can hopefully provide a couple worth trying. There is no time like to present to get the best teaching.

Faithfully,
-atg

It might be beneficial to you and your husband to ponder the use of rough language in light of what is taught in this post: http://defendingcontending.com/2011/10/01/little-sins/

May the Lord be your refuge and strength is all things.

and Paul Washer: http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Paul^Washer

Just fantastic! :o)
Kindly,
Katy

It would be well worth your while to call up all the other Driscoll posts on this site and take a serious look at the profuse documentation given here regarding Mark Driscoll. His language is the mere tip of the iceberg. He is a repeated and unrepentant Blasphemer and false teacher, and is VERY adept at mixing orthodox truth with the most demonic of errors. No matter how well he may “relate” to the Blue Collar worker, the Christian is commanded to avoid those such as Driscoll. If you are unsatisfied with your current pastor, there are other god-fearing men “who tell it like it is” featured on this site (check out the side bar on the right).

I have not listened to a full MD sermon. Just snippets. I do agree however that I would NOT want my 11yod to hear some of these things but maybe my highschoolers.

My husband on the other hand is very BLUE Collar and comes from a very rough BLUE Collar background with only “surface church teachings”. He is not “college educated”. (Perhaps most people on the blog are white collar and college educated. I don’t know why this makes a difference, but it does.) I know my husband can definitley relate to this sort of preaching. Maybe these are the people MD is trying to reach?

Many Christians are afraid to speak their minds with the fear of “being judged”. And also I find many Parents DO NOT teach their children truths as they should. They leave that “stuff” to public schools. Isn’t this better learned at church if the parents won’t “step up”?

My husband and I actually have an ongoing conversation about certain words we consider “foul”. He does not find some words to be “foul”.

My thoughts seem disjointed and just thrown together, but Please don’t think I’m defending MD and not post this. I’m curious to hear if others with a similar background as my husband’s understand where I’m coming from.
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As a side note. I did go back and read some more of the posts. All are very eye-opening. Guess I’ll just have to suffer with my boring, no-imagination, scared-to-stand-up-for-what-I-believe-in pastor. I was hoping I found a god-fearing man who “tells-it-like-it-is”.

Methinks the man protests too much….I’m just saying.

Excellent point. Just because someone may be opposed to Rob Bell doesn’t necessarily make him one of “the good guys”. Emergent Bell has his target audience, and Emergent Driscoll has his. But the goal is the same: to destroy the Faith once delivered unto the saints. The enemy has been doing this sort of manipulation from the beginning.

The only thing I would hasten to add is: take a close look at Driscoll’s ACTUAL fruit instead of the spin doctoring!

“How dare you suggest pastor Mark is bearing bad fruit! Why, 9 gazillion people were baptized by him personally last week alone, and he’s built 400,000 churches with his own two hands out of 100% recycled, environmentally friendly, renewable and biodegradable materials that reduce the carbon footprint of the Christian church as a whole by 45% and he personally feeds the entire homeless population west of the Mississippi in his own home each week! How dare you! As if! Hater!”

See, Driscoll’s rabid fanboys and erstwhile defenders are their own worst enemies. They’re his fruit!

Driscoll makes converts to Driscoll instead of making coverts to Christ.

Driscoll makes disciples of Driscoll instead of disciples of Christ.

Driscoll multiplies Driscoll.

He’s a cult of personality.

I challenge anyone to honestly ask themselves what would become of Mars Hill Church and its big screen satellite clone “church plants” if Driscoll dropped dead tomorrow, or simply came out and said, “Ya know what, I don’t believe this stuff anymore and I’m moving on, so long suckers!”

It would last about two seconds before it collapsed under its own dead, bloated weight, that’s what.

In Christ,
CD

Thank you for your honest opinion. My sister is also a huge fan of Mark Driscoll, as are some of my friends. I’ve also read 5 of his books and listened to countless hours of his sermons. So I’m familiar with his beliefs and teachings.

Mark Driscoll does use the Bible, he does encourage “men to be men”, and he does seem to have a positive impact on the younger generation. But then, don’t the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormon Church, and Jehovah’s Witnesses all use the Bible as well, even encouraging people to dig deeper into their Bible? The Mormons certainly have a “positive impact” on the younger generation in my town. So certainly there is more to determining what is of God than what may seem like positive results.

But the bottom line for the Christian must be: Who is my God, what has He said, and what is my response to Him? For these answers, we must turn to the only solid, authoritative source of truth. And that is not in what our pastor/preacher says, nor in what our church says, nor public opinion, nor in our own feelings or philosophies, but in God’s own Word to us (the Bible). By it we test all religious teachings and teachers, as well as our own thoughts, to see whether they be truly of God. Indeed, it is utterly foolhardy NOT to test our teachers (Matt.7:15; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1Jn.4:1). And by the Bible, and the Bible only, will we be judged for all eternity (Jn.12:48).

I understand your desire to find the good in Mr. Driscoll, and your desire to “correct the bad”. If this were a case of personal struggles in the flesh that Christian men deal with, I would certainly also pray for a man to overcome such personal struggles by the power of Christ within. Tragically, this just isn’t the case with Mr. Driscoll. “Struggling with his filter” really doesn’t begin to address the depth nor heart of Mr. Driscoll’s errors. And as for his claim that he is “in the process of repentance” and such like, he’s been making such claims for many years now, yet continues his false teaching and unbiblical behavior. Rather than hashing out again the many lengthy details of what has already been said before, I urge you to honestly read for yourself what has been documented on this site (simply search above for “Driscoll”). There you will find posts and valuable comments which contain profusely documented evidence addressing Driscoll’s false teachings (teachings from the pulpit and/or in his books which are contrary to the Scriptures), as well as specifically forbidden behavior which renders him unqualified to be a Christian elder or pastor.

As we look in Scripture for the concept of overlooking the bad in favor of the good, we simply don’t find that in regard to truth or righteousness. Nor does God allow mixture of His truth and righteousness with error and unrighteousness. In fact He ALWAYS condemns such mixture. Jesus is very clear on this (see Matt.7:21-23, Rev. 2). Paul also makes the same thing clear for the Christian today:

“Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,” 2 Cor. 6:15-17

The very name for Church: “Ekklesia”, means “called out ones”. The word for “holy” (as in 1 Pet.1:16: “be ye holy for I am holy”) is “hagios”, carrying a very similar meaning: “different from the world” because it is “like the Lord”. The Christian is called out of the world and is to leave it behind to follow Christ. That’s why we proclaim the Gospel to the world, and show them a transformed life in obedience to Christ which is miraculous evidence of His Spirit living in us. We are not “very much like them (the unsaved), but redeemed”. On the contrary, we are entirely new creatures, very UNLIKE the world around us, and we show that through holy, transformed, non-worldly living and thinking.

Tragically, Mr. Driscoll has perverted all this. He has perverted the very concept of the Church, bringing the world and it’s perversions into it. He has perverted God’s Word, deconstructing much of it and redefining it to conform to his own idea of “Christianity” as he wants it to be. He is leading many to follow a false “christ” who is not the Jesus Christ Who is described in the Scriptures but rather a “christ” fashioned in his own image.

In saying all this, please understand, I certainly do not hate Mr. Driscoll. His teaching and behavior display a very deceived man, who in turn is deceiving thousands of others. I would like nothing better than for him to repent, to repudiate his false teachings, and to truly become born again.

Kris, I sincerely and urgently pray that you study God’s Word, not through “Driscoll glasses”, but study it for what it says, and pray for the Lord to open your eyes to His Truth. Your eternity depends on it. Farewell.

On one side, he knows that he struggles with his filter at times (Who doesn’t) and has confessed it multiple times while stating that it is one area he is in the process of repentance. On the other hand, consider his context, Seattle, WA. Not sayin that to justify all his harsh words, but definitely some.

One thing I hope we can agree on, is that Driscoll has had a large positive impact on the younger generation who are now seeking to dig deeper into their word and theology. Additionally, he encourages men to be men and father their children with love while teaching them the gospel, rather than legalism which I was taught growing up.

To use a Driscoll-ism on Driscoll, we must not either receive or reject, but also redeem. Every pastor is going to have bad qualities and good, so we are responsible for finding the good and correcting the bad. As a pastor who has multiple times confessed his struggles (Something many pastors don’t do) we know where to start our prayers FOR him (Not AGAINST).

As one way of example, if we’re going to reject Driscoll because of the harshness of the things he says, then should we also reject Martin Luther because of anti-semitic statements? While I understand you may want to appeal to how you believe Driscoll uses the harshness as humor, we could say that it is possible that Luther did the same since records state he had a personality as well.

I really hope you don’t just kick this comment out because I am a supporter of him. Like all Christians he makes mistakes, only his are more visible (And more blogged about); I fully support discussion and can admit when I am wrong, but in reference to point (3), I found this post by accident and wanted to voice my side since all the other comments seem to lean the other direction.

If anything, you may contact me on Facebook or some other medium. Thank you for your time and God bless bud!

matt. 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hadesd will not overcome it 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

if you study then you realize that Jesus never told Him that He was the Son of God before this point, other wise Jesus wouldn’t have said what he did after that. a lot of people get it wrong and believe that it was peter that He was referring to when He said the rock, but as time and testimony show, people are wrong. it was the fact that peter got the revelation of who Jesus was without some earthly person spoon feeding to Him…the rock the church is built on is the revelation of who Jesus is and blessing came in peters life when he came to understand that and learn that through studying and praying and perpetuation a one on one relationship with God.

ever wonder why preachers fall? ever wonder why churches fall a part? ever wonder why so many people are deceived and duped by these false teachers? it’s because they have no idea who Jesus is…
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15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

if Jesus was standing face to face with today’s church and asked us this question…i wonder what we would say?

Thanks again.

Thanks for sharing. For those who may not be aware of this “genius” that Driscoll is so impressed with, a simple read through Jay Z’s lyrics on http://www.jayzonline.com/lyrics.php , reveals a profuse amount of the most foul language imaginable, mixed in at times with references to God and Jesus. Song titles alone include “Ignorant S***”, “F*** All Night”, “P***y”, “B****es and Sisters”, etc. etc. Such things may be the language and the music that the unsaved like to hear, but no Christian should have any part of it. There certainly is nothing truly honoring to the all-Holy, all-Mighty Creator God in it, because all such foul language is specifically forbidden by God in His word. Scripture is clear, we must abide by God’s rules, not make up our own (2 Tim.2:5). And those who scoff at or ignore God’s rules (as defined by His Word), are merely heaping God’s judgment upon themselves.

As an alleged “christian” “pastor”, Driscoll’s recent admiration for and endorsement of Jay Z to his flocks (“Mars Hill” is a multiple “campus” franchise) not only continues to disqualify him from holding the pastoral office, but is further evidence of the rotten fruit of his continued unrepentant, unregenerate state.