46 Comments

Perry Noble’s message from AC/DC Sunday

perry-noble

Well, I went and did it. I took the plunge and listened to Perry Noble’s message from this past AC/DC Resurrection Sunday. Nah, I wasn’t surprised. Just the kind of ear-ticklingly good pop-psychology pep-talk I expected. With a little bit about Jesus thrown in. Here’s the summary:

  • 1st 4 minutes–Talked about American Idol. Not a word about how Satanic music relates to what he is going to talk about.
  • Talked about how salvation is “Not a program, or a process, but a person.”
  • Tells us how Jesus can make our life exciting and fun this side of eternity…and after we die, too.
  • Funny story about Sunday School teacher at NewSpring, and how his kid had to pee at the mall. I kid you not.
  • Reads Matthew 7:14-15. Still no mention of how joining the temple of God with idols is relevant to his message.
  • Tells funny story about driving around Buckhead (Atlanta) and a traffic cop telling him to get out of the intersection–and how he wanted to “run him over.” I kid you not.
  • Displays firm grasp on the obvious by spending about 3 minutes talking about how we’re all going to die.
  • Spends about a minute and a half talking about how Hell is real and it’s hot. Misses chance to use Scripture that talks about fire never being quenched and worms never dying, or even the purpose of Hell.
  • Mentions how God doesn’t compare us to other people but to Christ. OK, maybe things are looking up.
  • Or not. Goes into discussion about popular movies (A Time To Kill, Ransom), and that we’re all bad guys. Includes funny story about his daughter running in to his study and counting to 10. I kid you not.
  • Mentions Romans 3:10, 3:23. Misses chance to talk about how we are God’s enemy, about sin, or repentance.
  • Talked about how salvation is “Not a program, or a process, but a person.”
  • Tells funny story about dead chickens in Kenya. I kid you not.
  • Tells us that Jesus left Heaven to come here, asking us “Can you imagine leaving that kind of comfort?” Yeah, comfort. Nothing about Jesus’ perfect communion with God. Nothing about the glory He shared with the Father. It’s all about comfort. I kid you not.
  • Tells us that “Jesus came to rescue us and set us free.” Free from what? Hell. O………K. Still no mention of sin. Still no mention of repentance. Still no mention of how rehearsing and performing Hell-glorifying music is supposed to glorify the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
  • Talked about how salvation is “Not a program, or a process, but a person.”
  • Spends 7 minutes describing the physical aspect of the Passion Week and the crucifixion. No mention of WHY JESUS HAD TO DIE.
  • 30:00 until the end (about 20 minutes in all)–invitation, slow music, guilt-laden manipulation, and 300 people “met Jesus.” Still no mention of how rehearsing and performing Hell-glorifying music is supposed to glorify the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

In all, the Lord Jesus Christ merits about 10 minutes out of 50. Hell gets about 90 seconds. The rest of the time is filled with fluff about movies, little girls counting to ten, and kids peeing at the mall–with a couple Bible verses sprinkled here and there. No mention of how our sins grieve the heart of God. No mention of WHY Jesus had to die to rescue us from Hell (Because, you know, it’s all about us). No mention of what is required on our part after we “Know Jesus” (You know, all that repentance and sanctification and holiness stuff we Pharisees are so worried about). No mention of whether they told people, “Yeah, we know we played Satanic music in our service. But that was just to get you in the door. Now that you’re here, don’t listen to it, OK? Yes, that’s right. Do as we say, not as we do. Sin? Ah, don’t worry about it. You know Jesus, you don’t have to worry about all that stuff.”

He had a platform to present the Law, to warn people about WHY we need to be rescued from Hell, to provide chapter and verse from the LIVING WORD OF GOD, and to let the Holy Spirit speak from the word He spoke to the holy men of old. And instead he filled people’s time with a happy little pep talk about movies, kids, and cops.

And Satanic music.

46 comments on “Perry Noble’s message from AC/DC Sunday

  1. Dear Four “Took One For The Team” Pointer:

    Thank you for subjecting yourself to the swill of New Spring’s myths and fables (prefaced with a Satanic song glorifying a party in Hell) so that we didn’t have to.

    You should receive a purple heart and a medal of valor for subjecting yourself to that trash, especially when you consider that you’ll never get that hour of your life back.

    This of course will only last so long. The next time we expose the newest worldly and completely unbiblical church stunt that Mr. Noble employs to fill seats, expect the same old weak defense:

    “Don’t judge Mr. Noble by his past sermons. In order to understand the song ‘Their Satanic Majesties Request’ by the Rolling Stones played for New Spring’s Christmas service you need to listen to his sermon about firemen, public restrooms, flying monkeys, and hula dancers.”

    Truth is stranger than fiction.

    - The Pilgrim

  2. They should have heard a Easter message something like the one I heard.

    http://www.smbconline.com/misc_audio/?file=19&sort=1

  3. Dear John:

    I downloaded that sermon you linked to and listened to it today on my MP3 player. Very good. That’s the kind of preaching that should be heard in churches; not the tales told to tickle ears after songs played to please the flesh.

    I have featured this sermon on my weekly Wednesday Sermon of the Week found here.

    – The Pilgrim

  4. perry noble is the poster child for everything that is wrong with the seeker-friendly movement

  5. “Displays firm grasp on the obvious by spending about 3 minutes talking about how we’re all going to die.”

    I’m not sticking up for Mr. Noble, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, not everyone seems to have such a firm grasp of the obvious with regard to their own mortality.

    Very often, at the end of a church service, there will be a time of what is called “invitation.” This is when people who feel that the Lord’s Spirit has spoken to them through the preaching of His Word may come to the front of the church and pray with, or receive Biblical counseling from, the pastor or another spiritual leader. The area between the first row of seats or pews, and the pulpit, is sometimes called the “altar.” During funeral services, it is often the place where the coffin is set, as well.

    Sadly, for many people, the first time in their whole lives they come to the altar is when they are wheeled there in their own coffin. Possibly even more tragic, though, are those who attend funerals, and are unaffected by the graphic illustrated sermon on display. I have seen people attend the funeral of a loved one who died prematurely due to drug or alcohol abuse, or due to the effects of an immoral lifestyle. As these people pass by the coffin to pay their last respects, they seem to be grieving or seriously shaken (and no doubt they are). Then, they proceed out of the church and immediately return to the type of actions and lifestyle which caused their loved one’s death.

    Surely, these people do not think that they are the exceptions to God’s rule that people do not live forever. “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” (Hebrews 9:27). What seems more likely is that they have the attitude of the people who heard the prophet Ezekiel’s warnings. “Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off.” (Ezekiel 12:27)

    The Israelites in this passage of Scripture thought there might be truth to the prophet’s warnings that judgment would come upon them, but, since he had been prophesying for a while, and nothing had happened yet, God’s judgment must be far off. They even had quaint little sayings and proverbs which made a mockery of the seriousness of God’s impending judgment. God’s response to this, relayed through Ezekiel, was that the consequences of our sins are always nearer than we think. “Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.” (Ezekiel 12:28) It was about six years after this prophecy that the Babylonians broke through the city walls of Jerusalem and brought disaster and destruction upon God’s people.

    Do not wait for some mythically future “right time” to respond to the Holy Spirit’s invitation. When you are prompted by Him, move with urgency. Generally speaking, there are two things that keep people from confessing and forsaking their sin, and from calling upon the Lord for forgiveness. One is pride. (“What will people think of me?”) The other is procrastination. (“I’ll get right with God one day…”) When David returned to the cities of Israel, gloriously victorious in his wars against the Philistines, the women of Israel sang a song, comparing him to King Saul. They sang, “Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands.” (I Samuel 18:7). If you are putting off the invitation to respond to God’s Word in your life today, my song to you is: “Pride hath slain his thousands, and procrastination his ten thousands.” Do not presume upon God’s grace a day longer. Call upon Jesus Christ this very moment.

  6. I “met Jesus” on Easter Sunday 2009 at NewSpring Church after hearing Perry Noble give the sermon you so kindly outlined for your readers.

    Yes, Perry has an unconventional way of teaching. It is this unconventional way of teaching that finally got through the wall I had built up after years of bucking the legalistic ways of traditional church. I listened as I had never before… my hardened heart finally melted. Christ’s message got through to me. And I’m not the only one that day. As you stated, 300 other souls “met Jesus” that day. And since that day, over 600 more have “met Jesus” and we are all getting baptized this Saturday… in an unconventional way – a tailgate Baptism. It doesn’t matter the course taken to receive salvation… just that salvation is received!

    If you were brought into the kingdom by a Southern Baptist preacher or a hippie no denomination minister with a nose ring… I don’t care. I am just happy for you! Judge not…

  7. Dear Met Jesus Easter Sunday:

    I have two honest questions.

    1). What exactly do you mean when you say you “met Jesus?” Can you explain what that means and what actually happened to you?

    2). If you were truly saved during this exhibition, did God save you because of the music glorifying Hell, the idea of Jesus making your life exciting/fun this side of eternity, the story of dead chickens in Kenya, the story of the kid having to pee at the mall, and concluding with the mood-music appealing to emotion, or did God save you in spite of it?

    Sincerely,
    – The Pilgrim

  8. Did you ‘meet Jesus’ because He crushed you under the weight of your sins? Did He reveal to you your true condition…a lost sinner without any shred of hope apart from Christ? Did that crushing weight cause you to cry out to Him ‘O God, have mercy on me, a sinner’? Did you come to Him broken, weeping, and asking for mercy and forgiveness, or did you ‘be-bop’ up to the altar with the rest of the crowd like you’d just won a raffle drawing and you were going to get your ‘prize’. “The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit”. Psalm 34:18
    You understand now the commands to repent, deny self, pick up your cross and follow Jesus? That means you separate yourself from the world, which includes worldly music and other forms of worldly entertainment. Legalistic you say? A heart that has truly been changed by God will want NOTHING to do with anything this world offers as entertainment or otherwise {Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him’- 1 John 2:15}. A heart that beats solely for Christ desires to serve Him, regardless of the cost. Have you counted the cost? {Luke 14:28-32-also, READ THIS VERSE – ‘So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple’ Luke 14:33}
    True followers are hated by this world, why? Because we are not like them, and we speak out against the sins they so dearly love {including exalting rock stars and their satanic music}. Are you prepared to be hated? {If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you’ John 15:19} What about persecution that is sure to come, do you understand that promise in scripture {‘Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution’ 2 Tim. 3:12}?
    Do you understand what ‘living godly’ means? We are to pattern our lives after Christ, walking in humility and love, as well as proclaiming His truth boldly.
    “He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.” 1 John 2:6
    “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19
    Prayerfully, you understand, by His grace, that ‘meeting Jesus’ is more than an emotional feeling and a water baptism. God must do a work, He draws lost sinners to His Son, He saves to the uttermost all that come. The new birth is something no man or woman can produce, it can only come from God Himself.
    “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. “And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.” Ezekiel 36:26,27
    Salvation is not based on anything we may say or do, it is based solely on God’s grace. “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:8.9
    I pray God has saved you, because you are a sinner w/o hope [like I was] apart from His grace. Because He has opened your dead heart to it’s true condition…if you base your salvation on anything you may have done…you are still in your sins.

  9. I have been to Newspring several times, I neither defend or condemn Perry. The Sundays I was there seemed like a regular Sunday service except for the upbeat music. I truly think these churches will somehow bring in the end times and that there is probably not much we can do about prophesy fullfilling. My problem with “traditional” church is(and I attend one) that we are so self righteous. We do things the way we do them “because thats they way it’s always been done”. Now is it done because Jesus commanded it or just because thats they way so and so in the churches grandfather set up the church. Many of the things we do are not biblical, they are man made things we do. We don’t really follow the holy spirits leading, we make decisions based on not hurting the people in the churches feelings or because it’s always been done that way. I attend a “traditional” baptist church, I see it all the time, my husband is in leadership, but he can’t follow God’s leading, he has to follow not stepping on toes or making someone cry, we will never have revival doing this. The church will die doing this because it’s not biblical to follow mans feelings but to follow God’s leading. We can gossip and argue about each other all day, the bible predicts that in the last days it will happen, and it is. But in the end it will accomplish nothing!

  10. This is addressed to the fellow who tried to comment here using the screen name “NewSpring Member (and, by the way, Christian)”:

    As you can see, your comment did not make it to the light of day, nor will any future comments that begin by calling us “idiots.”

    Although, in hindsight, I could have allowed your comment, if for no other reason than to show the “fruit” of Perry Noble’s man-centered philosophy, er, um, “ministry.” If your comment and attitude are any indication of others who follow Perry Noble, then I’d say our assessment of his “ministry” is rather spot-on.

  11. I have attended newspring for four years now, and I can honestly say that Perry uses the funny stories to make a point about Christ. I am in no way putting Perry up on a pedestal, but every Sunday I hear the man say it is ALL about Jesus. It truly breaks my heart to see those of us in the Kingdom of my Lord and Saviour fighting over “styles” of preaching. By the way, I know that I am saved because I REPENTED of my sin and asked Jesus to forgive me and come into my heart. I am just saying, what if the bride of Christ stopped all the infighting and truly united to show people who are lost who Jesus really is? I sincerely hope that this comment helps raise the view of the congregation of newspring, because we may not do it right all the time, but we DO love Jesus and do not want to see anyone die and go to hell. With Christ’s love, Rick.

  12. Rick,
    Have you been born again, or born from above? This is not something you can do, only God can re-birth a lost sinner from the inside out. Is there evidence of a change in your life? Do you hate the sins you once loved, i.e., immoral sex, drinking, coveting, selfishness, pride, arrogance, the love of money and what it can buy {this are sins in general, I am not insinuating these are necessarily your sins}. Does Jesus Christ permeate your thoughts, from the time you wake up until the time you lie down? Are you sensitive to sin, both your own and the sins of others?

    Nowhere in scripture do we find the command to ‘ask Jesus into our hearts’. If you are banking your salvation on what you’ve done {you said you repented, and you asked Jesus into your heart}, you may very well be deceived. You claim to know Jesus, BUT, does He know you?

  13. Hey guys, I tried to post something on this discussion about two months ago. It was not approved by the admin to be posted. I don’t mind it. It must not have been the right timing. So here is another attempt…

    I have come to a general consensus that just about everyone I have seen post on this board knows Jesus on some level. “Does Jesus know you?” Valid statement Lyn; however the statement may not have been interpreted or directed in the most loving way. We all know that interpretation of a caution or a rebuke may be difficult to understand on this type of a forum, especially when it is out of love, but too impersonal or few words to cover our own mal-interpretation.

    There are different levels of authority that people will respond to: Positional… Relational… Spiritual. PLEASE HANG WITH ME A MINUTE I AM GOING SOMEWHERE WITH THIS. I am certain that if Rick is plugged into the Body at Newspring, just as each of us may be plugged in at our own respective churches, there should be somebody already there encouraging personal relationship with Christ. That is called discipleship and mentorship.

    We have to remember that although we might be received well when we say these types of things to those who we have been placed over (positional), we have relationships with (relational), or them who may look to us for guidance (spiritual) authority… When we say the same things to people we do not have any of those relationships with; the statement comes off as rather brash and unloving… even if it is completely true.

    I only say all of this because many of the posts on this forum; I feel and would like to believe are generated out of real concern for the other, iron on iron type stuff; even out of love. But delivered in a defensive/offensive format; schism and enmity are present. Offense is taken up in defense here and now unity is broken, sides are taken and the bride of Christ seems to be Schizophrenic.

    Jesus said “Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” John 13:35. May I implore you all with Christ Love, let us all stop whatever is going on and love the other. If you want to tell others what they are missing, first be an example in love to them. Show them you really are a follower of Christ, not with theology or words, but with gestures and genuine love. Please, Love each other. Love Perry. Love NewSpring, Love your neighbor. Isn’t that what God has called us to. Get close with Jesus, His Love will change you, It is His Love that we know, and recieve so others may know the Love of Christ through us. “We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:20-21. If you know Christ and He knows you, please do as he says and make an appeal to reveal Christ Love to the world. It starts with me, and with you. Let us Draw together in unity; of Christ Love, and see the worlds perspective of the Church change. See the world itself change. It will change in the place God casts his blessing which is Unity and Love. Psalm 133.
    1 How good and pleasant it is
    when brothers live together in unity!

    2 It is like precious oil poured on the head,
    running down on the beard,
    running down on Aaron’s beard,
    down upon the collar of his robes.

    3 It is as if the dew of Hermon
    were falling on Mount Zion.
    For there the LORD bestows his blessing,
    even life forevermore.

    “Thank you Jesus for calling us to a “more excellent way” which is to your Love. Help us all to remember your Love for us and to live in an expression of it so that we might be salt, light, and a city on a hill that cannot be hidden. You alone are good, Thank you for sharing your righteousness with us… Amen”

  14. Anthony, Love is the driving force that prompts most of us to speak out against heresy; the love of our Lord Jesus, the love of His truth, and the love of the lost, deceived sinner’s soul.
    We cannot embrace false doctrine, or the tares it produces and call them a ‘brother’. Christ did not die for the self-righteous, nor did He die for those who claim salvation by their works. Christ died for the ungodly, those who see themselves as they truly are…wicked sinners with no hope apart from the grace and mercy of God.
    Iron only sharpens iron if both are indeed ‘iron’. I urge you not to misuse God’s word, or be all one-sided. What I mean by that is simply this; God is love, His people are to walk in humility and love. These are biblical truths. BUT, that does NOT mean we are to bury our heads in the sand, that we are to embrace false converts, false doctrine, or anything that opposes God. {Remember how Christ overturned the moneychanger’s table in the temple…He did not wrap His arms around them and sing ‘kumbaya’!}The way is narrow, few actually find it. Why is the way so narrow? Because sinful men insist on distorting God’s truth, they tweek His Gospel so as to ‘broaden’ the road. They are broadening the road alright…the broad road that leads to destruction. We are commanded to proclaim and defend His truth…what better example of love is there than to point a false convert to biblical truth?

  15. Understood Lyn. I agree with and I understand your stand on defending the Word of God. We also must remember the greatest commandment and the “one like it.” And please do not make statements of misuse of Gods word. That is not for me or you to decide… just like it is not for us to decide who is saved or who is not. We may judge only the fruit; but such judgment cannot be made about people we have no personal relationship with… These are people like Rick.

    Since Constantine we “the church” have become the authority on truth, right, wrong, sin and righteousness… a major power of decree, law, and standards. This is not what the church was created for, I have found no biblical proof that we are judges in this day. There is one judge and it certainly isn’t us. I also want to mind you that I am a Pastor of a very healthy ministry and have been trained well by the Holy Spirit and gifted/appointed teachers on biblical study… I only say this to say I have studied to show myself approved. Although I don’t expect you to automatically believe the things I say… After all I am a man that is fallible just like you; I would like for you to open yourself up to my stand on the approach, not the issue itself. I have done my homework.

    I want to say thank you Lyn for your heart, and for being open to my apologetic. I have a few points to state, there are always two sides to a coin. Some arguments cannot be won on either side… IE: Armenian and Calvinistic viewpoints/conflicts. Loss of salvation, free will, I am sure you know the arguments… and like many you may have your standpoint: perhaps you would defend them to death… Good for you, but I will tell you that there are some arguments that cannot be won because we cannot fully understand the infinite God with our finite minds. There has never been and never will be until the return of OUR Lord and Savior an authority on these issues because it is not for us to know, Jesus is that authority and He will Say whats up! I say this because defending Gods word is a noble theme, the pharisees were really good at defending and enforcing the Law, but fell short of pleasing Jesus. I am not in any way accusing you or any of the people on this forum of being a “Pharisee or Sadducee.” I am only throwing caution out there and a reminder of what Jesus has called us FIRST to. Love. That is not an abuse of scripture, that is truth and no bible believing person could possible argue with the Word of God that Jesus has first commanded us to Love Him and in doing so Love eachother.

    As for Pointing out the speck in anothers eye or the hole in their theology as being an expression of Extreme love, or as you put it “what better example of love is there than to point a false convert to biblical truth?” The greatest expression of Love is that we lay our life down for the other. That is, if you genuinely are concerned with the doctrinal stand or lack of discipline a person may have in their life, forget about who you are, what you know or think you know. You can start with prayer, not about the issue, its defense, or what to say/type in response. But about how you are going to Love on them with the Love that they do not know (assuming they dont know the Love of Christ as you might.) Laying down your life for another occurs when we ascribe value to the other because Christ ascribed insurmountable value to them when He died for them. This is done in blindness to flaw, because Jesus loved us and continues to love us even in our flaw.

    There is no place in the Bible that I have found that condemns listening to specific types of music. But I will agree with you that there are spirits associated with music, but the spirit of the music is in the writer/performer. AC/DC by all means is not something I feel born again believers should seek to listen to; however when this song is edited and performed by God fearing people with the objective of winning a few; I find the spirit of the music to be intentionally directed towards glorifying God. Jesus cares about our motives. Even if we make bad decisions. Singing Godless music is not condemned by Jesus; as a matter of fact Paul quoted Greek philosopher Phaenomena of Aratus when He stated “28’For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.'” Acts 17:28.

    Church service evangelism 101… How do you get the unsaved saved in your church service? You have the unsaved there; and deliver the gospel in a productive manner. Productive is relative… Relative to the audience and its maturity, demographic, age, etc. “Highway To Hell” Definitely drew in the unsaved, and hundreds received the gospel and allowed it to be real to them for the first time. For this I would say Job well done Perry. I wish I would have thought of it myself. Not because I want to play AC/DC but because I know what his motives were. Like Paul when he quoted Phaenomena the song Highway to Hell is a reminder that hell is a real place and there is a real need for a savior. This use was productive, and the Holy Spirit did the convicting.

    As for the turning of the tables in the temple… I have heard that argument many times, unfortunately it is without proper research. The tables were set up around the outer court of the temple… The Jewish merchants took the gentiles place of worship on the passover and occupied it. Because of this the Gentile was unable to come to a place of Worship… Jesus was upset because of the motive of the merchant… That is they were doing what they could to make it so the gentile couldn’t worship, but rather shutting them out. That is why He said My house is a place of Prayer… Jesus was defending His word, but beyond that He was defending the need for those that may not be as “perfect” to worship and pray. I find Jesus was more upset because of the motive, not the neglect of the Law. Rather He reminded them of the Law to state…”the gentiles too shall have a place to worship.”

    Jesus knew many would come after Him preaching another gospel… He said if anyone adds to this gospel they are decievers in so many words. We have to be careful of what we have added to the Gospel, regulations and standards that are not in the bible… Since when do we have the authority to come down on others because of what the church has decided is right or wrong. I will say this, right and wrong is black and white, and some things are simply wrong; I am not in favor of rebellion or lack of discipline. But just as a reminder, Obesity is a major result of a sin and clearly outlined in the Word, gluttony. I have heard the excuses, simple fact.. if you consume more than you need, you gain weight… Nothing multiplies calories. I only point that out because while we are so busy pointing out the flaws of others, we just might be taking more than our share; while children die of hunger and never get to hear the Gospel. My challenge is not a purely a defense… It is a plee that we might put on the eyes of Christ and see where the real need is.

    The time I spent writing this message, if spent working a minimum wage job; would have fed a child for a month, or provided mosquito nets for a dozen people who are going to get malaria and also die not knowing Jesus loves them. God is great at defending His Word; He has protected it for over 4000 years. It isn’t our job to defend it on a large scale, but rather to allow Him to use us to bring others to a full revelation of His love.

    Discipleship is a growing need. Thank you for your hearts. My plea is that we trust Jesus that what he said will happen. That is “if anyone should seek me whole hearted they will find me.” To claim to be a Christian is to claim to know Jesus, and to belong to Him. 1 John outlines what it looks like and I am sure you have read it over and over… again it states knowing Jesus means knowing His love and expressing it to ALL. Lyn I would like to have more discussion with you; not about who is right and wrong, but rather about our efforts to see the lost be found. Remember the great commission… We are not to dedicate ourselves to the defense of the Word, but to discipleship of the lost. Please do not rationalize pointing out specks as a gesture of extreme love… It is a nice gesture but as I was mentioning in my last post… It isn’t being received as love, thus creates schism and animosity. Lyn if you are open to it, perhaps we shall talk about those people in our lives that we are pouring ourselves into… challenges in doing so and what opportunities there are to rather point our efforts towards… I have found bashing the ministry of Newspring to be a chasing after the wind… full of two people groups who will never be unified as long as they disagree. What can we agree on… There are people out there that are dying without knowing Jesus name or what he did for them. There are students commiting suicide because they have found nothing but rejection from the church and “christians” because they are not as perfect or sound. Love is the solution, I understand your stand and agree with it to a certain extent. I just dont think it is an effective expression of Love to continue to point out the others flaw in such an non-personal manner. This is why I would like to pray with you Lyn and put our minds together to feed some bellies and see some people enter into the kingdom for REAL… because nobody is getting saved with our bickering on this forum! Blessings and may God increase His territory where ever you go.

  16. I only have a brief amount of time, so I cannot respond fully right now. I will say this, this forum is not for the lost sinner, it is for the edification of the born again believer. If/when the lost sinner comments here, the Defcon team responds with truth, in love. It may not be your idea of love, but, you cannot see into our hearts. The ‘bickering’ you accuse us of here is taking a stand against heresy, which is what we are called to do. As for the music, I disagree 100% with your ‘opinion’.

    May we part company at this point going the direction in which the Lord leads.

    Grace and peace

  17. Anthony,

    What do you think the apostle Paul meant when he wrote, in 2nd Corinthians 6:14-18, “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ‘I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.‘ Therefore ‘Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters,‘ Says the LORD Almighty.”

    In this section, Paul is telling the Corinthian believers to stop using Satan’s methods and devices in the house of God. By using Satanic music in their service, NewSpring has joined the work of Satan to the house of God, something which is clearly prohibited by this passage of Scripture.

    By asserting, AC/DC by all means is not something I feel born again believers should seek to listen to; however when this song is edited and performed by God fearing people with the objective of winning a few; I find the spirit of the music to be intentionally directed towards glorifying God you contradict yourself. Do you truly believe that Bon Scott, Angus Young, et al, came up with that music as a way of glorifying Almighty God? That, my friend, is about as wrong as wrong can be. The “spirit of the music”–i.e., AC/DC’s motive in writing that song–was nothing more than flat-out worship of Satan. How does worshippiong Satan glorify God?

    You also say that AC/DC by all means is not something I feel born again believers should seek to listen to–then you go on to say that it’s OK to use it in a church service. So, which is it? What you are saying, in effect, is that born-again believers not listen to it–but it’s OK to use in a church service. How do you justify that? Plus, this statement is totally contradictory to Scripture. Nowhere are believers encouraged to use the tools of Satan in the worship of God. In fact, we have an example of sorcerers in the book of Acts burning their books of magic when they hear the gospel (see Acts 19:17-20). If a church is using Satanic methods to cast out Satan…well, I think we know what Jesus said about that.

    Finally, the notion that Church service evangelism 101… How do you get the unsaved saved in your church service? You have the unsaved there; and deliver the gospel in a productive manner, again, we see man-centered methods, using Satanic music, to do the work of God. And, of course, that word that so many man-centered “churches” like to use–“relevance.” This silly notion that “Oh, gee, if we don’t make the gospel relevant to today’s culture, nobody will get saved!!” Friend, let me tell you something. The church where I teach Sunday School is located in the projects here in Knoxville. How do we draw people in? Because we are real about who we are. We don’t use Tupac, or Snoop Dogg, or any other kind of filthy music to bring people back. We show the people love, we preach the truth, we teach what the Bible says without watering it down with Satanic, man-centered methods. We don’t say, “Come in and listen to Tupac this Sunday!!” and then turn around and tell them, “Well, you know, you really shouldn’t listen to that kind of music.”

    And guess what? Our church is growing with true believers. Want to know who most of our members are? Young, urban, African-American boys. They don’t come to have their ears tickled. They don’t come to be “entertained.” They come to hear truth. Somebody might want to tell that to Perry Noble before he goes on and on about how young people can’t be reached without compromising biblical truth.

    Anthony, if someone is going to get saved–truly saved–then we must rely completely on God and His grace to save the person. When we use Satanic music to do the work that only the Holy Spirit can do, then we are saying we depend more on the work of Satan than we do God, and we glorify Satan rather than God.

  18. Well pointed out… And Yes God intends to grow His church with His love.. His Spirit.. His Grace. As I mentioned in the last message; there are some battles that cannot be won. Just so you know, I have been around the block a few times in ministry… but I am not here to boast of who I am; for my boasting is in Christ, but these arguments are not foreign to me, and they are not without recognition to to a certain extent.
    FourPointer; Thank you for being faithful with your Sunday school class. Do you sing hymns… are you properly informed that a large number of hymns originated from “bar chants” that’s right, they were the songs of drunkards that eventually got slightly changed, but were used because of their “relevance” in the day they were written. Also that there is no explaination for Pauls use of greek “godless” poetry to convey a truth about God in either yours or Lyns responses… the intention of the poem was not to Glorify Jesus; but coming from the right person; Paul, and with the right intention it did convey a real truth about Jesus and became a widely quoted passage of scripture.

    Now to appeal to sanctification… that is being set apart. The passage you used from 2nd corinthians 6… this was in reference to idols… and the worship thereof. Is AC/DC an idol? Yes. Was the Music intended for evil when it was written? Yes. Can those things be used to glorify God? Yes. Genesis 50:20 is a parallel for motive. “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.” Romans 8:28 is another good one. AC/DC intended to use it for evil, just as Josephs brothers meant to kill Joseph out of evil motive, God used it and brought much good. You sing the hymns don’t you. Allow me to open this up a little more. Again Paul quoted a greek philosopher FROM MEMORY that must mean he was reading it, beyond that studying it… even though it was not pointed at Christ; Pauls intentions were to be will educated and versed in the culture he was reaching out to. Because of this and the Leading of Gods Holy Spirit, he was able to effectively communicate Jesus to these greek people. This is relevance; it was an ice breaker. When “Highway to Hell” was played; nobody was invited to sing along, it was an icebreaker; which brought in people who otherwise had no intentions of seeking relationship with Jesus, but now are. As for when I stated that AC/DC isn’t something I find we should SEEK to listen to as believers… that is for further clarification; as needed because written forum can be difficult to fully convey and cover all the “holes.” When a satanic person or group AC/DC sings to glorify Satan, we should shut our ears to it because it does nothing to edify us as believers; the spirit of the deliverer is wrong. To that I am sure you do agree… however when a Spirit Filled individual looks forward to what Jesus is going to do and prophetically states that some of the people in this room are not on the road to heaven, but the highway to hell; the room was prepared to acknowledge the existence of Hell and the need for a savior. The spirit of performed music is the overflow of the performer. A drunkard in a bar “singing Be Bold, Be Strong.” doesn’t glorify God, but it does when sung by people with right hearts. Listening to satanic music because we like it, sows after the flesh, which reaps destruction. (seeking Jesus and His Spirit) sowing after the spirit reaps eternal life. Galatians 6:7-8 outlines that.

    One more set of scripture for you to better give you a clear stand on the topic. “19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.” 1 Corinthians 9:19-22. This set of scripture states… by all possible means I might save some. even if that means quoting a godless philosopher/poet or lyricist in this case.

    Please allow me to make my motive for even bothering with this forum clear; as long as we continue to disagree, the enemy is successfully robbing us of time and effort that could be spent otherwise in more productive means of discipleship and evangelism. My motive is to open your eyes to the methods of ministry used by the explosive early church. Nobody is looking for a list of “must do’s” and Acts do not save a person, but rather the “truly” saved will do works out of overflow… Every person moves at their own speed. In Ezekial 47 outlines 4 levels of depth a person goes through spiritually: ankle deep, knee deep, waist deep and swimming in it. Did perry cause people to jump in over their heads… Maybe not, but many got their feet wet and are wanting to take the next steps. I dont know how your church is set up and I am not the one to tell you how things should be run, but I will say any church that seeks to see people go deep will have the young in faith discipled by the rooted. Through this process discipline is taught and embraced. Being said, my motive here is not to disagree fully with you or your stand on righteous living… It is to illuminate the scriptures that might be slightly outweighted in the balancing of Love/Wrath Grace/discipline and the approach to winning a few or many. What I am getting at is Perry may not have had hundreds of people come forward to receive Christ sacrifice and all of them became saintly people. But they are all ankle deep and it is up to Gods grace to continue to draw them. God will continue to draw them towards righteousness as they seek relationship with Him, and those that love Him begin to live out the Word.

    Are they “true” converts? God didn’t call us to make “true” converts, but to make disciples out of people who were once on the highway to hell, but now on the road to heaven. It also is not for us to decide if they are saved, or not. Romans 10:9 states “9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” If you choose not to believe this and call these people “false converts” who may have confessed Jesus as Lord and savior by accepting his salvation and the price He paid on the cross for us. And if they truly believe, this is true… you will be saved. To deny this is to deny the validity of the Bible as Gods perfect word. This is a spiritual law, it cannot change and does not change. A persons stand on salvation and its permanence and place of occurrence is an issue that there are two schools of thought on, which do not agree until Jesus returns… play it safe here… we will be accountable for every word.

    Again I pray God will continue to bless you all for your gusto for the Word, multiplication of your efforts results, and the presence of Gods Spirit in your ministry endeavors. Jesus… Be real to all of us and those that might meet you through us and need you… Jesus be who you are and humble us to serve you best as you illuminate the next steps as the lamp to our feet. Break our heart for what breaks yours. Yours be the honor and glory and power. Amen.

  19. This is still a theory I’m checking out concerning Paul in Athens, but so far it makes sense to me. I’m open to being told I’m way off, but here it is.

    Right after Paul left Athens, having given his message including the secular poetry, he went to Corinth (Acts 18:1). In 1 Corinthians 2:1-5, Paul said,

    “When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.

    There are many examples given throughout the Bible, and they are not always examples to be followed. Some of them are examples of what not to do. It seems to me that Paul thought through his methods in Athens, and resolved not to use such methods again, but to preach the pure gospel.

    Even if that theory is incorrect, it’s clear to me that Perry Noble didn’t approach Easter Sunday with “weakness and fear, and with much trembling.”

    I admire Newspring’s desire to reach rock and roll fans. I would recommend that they go to a concert, and preach the gospel. They shouldn’t use trashy gimmicks to attract people into church.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  20. Anthony, I refer to your comment about hymns originating from bar songs. I have heard this before and have read a bit about it. I have just browsed and am no expert, but there seems to be some disagreement about that subject, on whether they did or not. I pray that your mind will also be opened, as we are never that far along that we cannot learn. As for ACDC I don’t understand why a church would even consider playing it. Does our God and Father really have to rely on that so He can bring people to salvation. He draws us, He gives us the faith, and now He needs ACDC to help Him. As for defending the faith I write what Jude says “Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ” Jude 3,4. Praise God for people who have got the courage to speak up about the state the churches are in. Praise God for the preachers who are willing to contend.

  21. Bill, Thanks for being humble in your submission and willing to study some. Please let me help you through this passage and your theory. I want to point out that in no way am I trying to be mean, but as the other people on this forum would point out, we all want to know Jesus better; so here it goes.

    If you go and re-read the passage you used to support the “Oops theory” as I might name it. You will find that Paul was not saying… sorry I was wrong or, I messed up last time. He was saying that when he came to them, it wasn’t Paul and his wisdom, but God and His Holy Spirit working/speaking through him. This is why he resolved to himself or to reword it he came to the decision that he knew nothing except the truth of Christ and was weak except for the Holy Spirit in Him; by which he spoke. I am sure you will agree after further research and re-reading the scripture in context. This was not an apology… It was a “not me but Jesus” statement.

    As for, the “Oops” and never doing it again. Greek quotes and Greek “lingo” is used in a few other places to emphasize a point… and yes this was inspired by Jesus, they were not the words of man, but Holy Spirit Breathed. If Paul who wrote to the Corinthians between 56 and 57 AD which were among the first to receive an epistle from Paul… and If he made a mistake and was stating that It was Him and not Jesus: (Which we already clarified he wasn’t saying.) Than why more than 6 years later (some time between 63 and 66 AD) did Paul do it again in Titus 1:12. He both quoted and agreed with a Greek philosopher, Aratus; from around 350 years before this; when He said “Even one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”” He says “this testimony is true” in the next verse. John also chose to use the word “Logos” to open His Gospel… there are a few other words that could have been used that are more litterally “word” such as rhēma which means basically “utterence, or spoken” or, epō meaning to speak or say… But rather we find “Logos” intertwined in the New Testiment, not just by John but widely used by new testiment authors. Logos before this was almost EXCLUSIVELY a word associated with Pantheistic concepts meaning “the reason for everything that exists, the ultimate principle imminent in things.” John wasn’t just saying the spoken word or the black and white and red print always existed. He said Purpose… Reason… Meaning Has always existed and Is in Christ and is Christ. He was saying the meaning for everything being created was for Jesus, In Jesus, and all Jesus. The use of Greek Lingo associated with godless theology, was used to convey the truth every Greek philosopher was trying to answer and that was, “what is the meaning…”

    I hope you can see the Word is living, will not return void unto the Lord. Even if some other culture, or godless person gave birth to the “word” it does not return void, but reaps a huge harvest. Again Paul said we shall become “all things to all people” as I quoted in the last message.

    A last caution for you. Theory is not theology… Let your motive not be… Theory to back up a traditional thought. Any scientist will tell you, the best way to prove a theory is to do everything possible to disprove it. We can begin with this… The “DONT DO’S” in the Bible are really clear because they end in destruction and a direct parallel is drawn there. IE Ananias and Saphirah… a don’t do with direct parallel to consequence. There are many more. The question is… What was the fruit of the activity? In this case read Act 17 when Paul quotes the Greek philosopher… V. 32-34 states that A few followed Paul and believed. A few were of notable recognition. The outcome was… People who were dead in sin, now could live in Christ. No Oops there. Rationalizing or creatively coming up with an explanation is dangerous; but your diligent study is powerful. Please do not go into your study looking for an answer for your theory; dive into the scriptures and let Gods Holy Spirit teach you and illuminate the scriptures. The Word is LIVING. It is Powerful. What happened 2000 years ago can, is and will continue happening every day, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Let the word speak to you, personally, convict you personally, and change you personally. Let your life speak volumes to others, not what you might come up with, but who you are in and through Christ. Jesus has called us to Love and Mercy and Grace and Faith.

    As for going to a rock concert… Good Idea. Maybe you should do that; maybe you will win a few. Can I throw some caution out there though; This would be an atmosphere of “Satan worship” where you are not invited, you would be a trespasser; thus the willingness to listen or read a track or whatever people do goes down. (can and will God work… Yes) Is it futile, no. I just got home late last night from doing a similar thing at the county fair. Saw nearly 40 people over the week come to belief in Christ, renew their faith or be called into ministry. Cool! Quick statement. If you go out into a pack of wolves thinking you have any chance of properly domesticating any of them, you most likely will scare them away, be harmed, ruin your chances or worst die! However using food to lure A wild wolf or two in, placing them in a domesticated environment with a pack of domesticated dogs, you will have yourself a few domesticated wolves. then you can go back out and entice a few more wild wolves and do it all over until all the wolves are saved. The question is, which is a more effective approach? Going out into the pack, “going to the concert and swim in Satan worship hoping to win a few; or bring them to you with what they feed on… The unsaved seek flesh gratification, entertainment and ear tickling… In Perry’s case it is the food that brought the wolves in, and people who love Jesus, know Jesus and Have His Spirit in them, are now influencing the hungry and wild. Just a paradigm shift for you guys.

    Jesus we lift you high and thank you for your word, your purpose and meaning. Apart from You there is no life for You are the Way the Truth and the Life. You be Glorified; You be lifted High, it’s all yours Jesus; it’s all Yours.

  22. Bill, Thanks for being humble in your submission and willing to study some. Please let me help you through this passage and your theory. I want to point out that in no way am I trying to be mean, but as the other people on this forum would point out, we all want to know Jesus better; so here it goes.

    If you go and re-read the passage you used to support the “Oops theory” as I might name it. You will find that Paul was not saying… sorry I was wrong or, I messed up last time. He was saying that when he came to them, it wasn’t Paul and his wisdom, but God and His Holy Spirit working/speaking through him. This is why he resolved to himself or to reword it he came to the decision that he knew nothing except the truth of Christ and was weak except for the Holy Spirit in Him; by which he spoke. I am sure you will agree after further research and re-reading the scripture in context. This was not an apology… It was a “not me but Jesus” statement.

    As for, the “Oops” and never doing it again. Greek quotes and Greek “lingo” is used in a few other places to emphasize a point… and yes this was inspired by Jesus, they were not the words of man, but Holy Spirit Breathed. If Paul who wrote to the Corinthians between 56 and 57 AD which were among the first to receive an epistle from Paul… and If he made a mistake and was stating that It was Him and not Jesus: (Which we already clarified he wasn’t saying.) Than why more than 6 years later (some time between 63 and 66 AD) did Paul do it again in Titus 1:12. He both quoted and agreed with a Greek philosopher, Aratus; from around 350 years before this; when He said “Even one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”” He says “this testimony is true” in the next verse. John also chose to use the word “Logos” to open His Gospel… there are a few other words that could have been used that are more litterally “word” such as rhēma which means basically “utterence, or spoken” or, epō meaning to speak or say… But rather we find “Logos” intertwined in the New Testiment, not just by John but widely used by new testiment authors. Logos before this was almost EXCLUSIVELY a word associated with Pantheistic concepts meaning “the reason for everything that exists, the ultimate principle imminent in things.” John wasn’t just saying the spoken word or the black and white and red print always existed. He said Purpose… Reason… Meaning Has always existed and Is in Christ and is Christ. He was saying the meaning for everything being created was for Jesus, In Jesus, and all Jesus. The use of Greek Lingo associated with godless theology, was used to convey the truth every Greek philosopher was trying to answer and that was, “what is the meaning…”

    I hope you can see the Word is living, will not return void unto the Lord. Even if some other culture, or godless person gave birth to the “word” it does not return void, but reaps a huge harvest. Again Paul said we shall become “all things to all people” as I quoted in the last message.

    A last caution for you. Theory is not theology… Let your motive not be… Theory to back up a traditional thought. Any scientist will tell you, the best way to prove a theory is to do everything possible to disprove it. We can begin with this… The “DONT DO’S” in the Bible are really clear because they end in destruction and a direct parallel is drawn there. IE Ananias and Saphirah… a don’t do with direct parallel to consequence. There are many more. The question is… What was the fruit of the activity? In this case read Act 17 when Paul quotes the Greek philosopher… V. 32-34 states that A few followed Paul and believed. A few were of notable recognition. The outcome was… People who were dead in sin, now could live in Christ. No Oops there. Rationalizing or creatively coming up with an explanation is dangerous; but your diligent study is powerful. Please do not go into your study looking for an answer for your theory; dive into the scriptures and let Gods Holy Spirit teach you and illuminate the scriptures. The Word is LIVING. It is Powerful. What happened 2000 years ago can, is and will continue happening every day, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Let the word speak to you, personally, convict you personally, and change you personally. Let your life speak volumes to others, not what you might come up with, but who you are in and through Christ. Jesus has called us to Love and Mercy and Grace and Faith.

    As for going to a rock concert… Good Idea. Maybe you should do that; maybe you will win a few. Can I throw some caution out there though; This would be an atmosphere of “Satan worship” where you are not invited, you would be a trespasser; thus the willingness to listen or read a track or whatever people do goes down. (can and will God work… Yes) Is it futile, no. I just got home late last night from doing a similar thing at the county fair. Saw nearly 40 people over the week come to belief in Christ, renew their faith or be called into ministry. Cool! Quick statement. If you go out into a pack of wolves thinking you have any chance of properly domesticating any of them, you most likely will scare them away, be harmed, ruin your chances or worst die! However using food to lure A wild wolf or two in, placing them in a domesticated environment with a pack of domesticated dogs, you will have yourself a few domesticated wolves. then you can go back out and entice a few more wild wolves and do it all over until all the wolves are saved. The question is, which is a more effective approach? Going out into the pack, “going to the concert and swim in Satan worship hoping to win a few; or bring them to you with what they feed on… The unsaved seek flesh gratification, entertainment and ear tickling… In Perry’s case it is the food that brought the wolves in, and people who love Jesus, know Jesus and Have His Spirit in them, are now influencing the hungry and wild. Just a paradigm shift for you guys.

    Jesus we lift you high and thank you for your word, your purpose and meaning. Apart from You there is no life for You are the Way the Truth and the Life. You be Glorified; You be lifted High, it’s all yours Jesus; it’s all Yours.

    P.S. Jude I would like to see your sources on the hymn research. I’ll get on it too. It isn’t that I disagree I am eager to see what you dig up. As I mentioned lots of times, there are some arguments that cannot be won. Jude did talk of people that would make the grace of God into lewdness and deny Jesus in His Lordship. Also just to let you know, I am not a grace only, Love only type person. Because of my passion for Jesus and His Word to tell you the truth, part of my mission in ministry is to show others that Jesus and his community is not about condemnation or paintings of Jesus on the wall, banners hung up and lots of religious activity. Jesus has promised us abundant life on THIS side of eternity which is achieved in Him. Christianity is not boring or constricting, it is exciting and liberating. What a person does is an overflow of the heart. Jesus works on the heart when people open up to it.

    Does Jesus need AC/DC? No. Does he need pot lucks? No. Does he need Chris Tomlin? No. Does He need Joyce Meyer? No. Do you catch what I am saying. To tell the truth He doesn’t need anything or anyone, after all He is God; but all things can be used by Him, and He will move as and when He pleases because He is God. It just so happens that nearly 1,000 people now confess Christ and believe that He died and rose again because they got, “enticed or sucked in by a gimmick.” My question is, are we all so calloused by “how we do things” or see things. That we cannot see when God has moved. Can’t you all just get excited because these people are on their way to heaven… The angels are throwing a party while people nit pick over the tactics used to deliver the Gospel to the unbeliever! Paul’s mission was to do whatever it took short of sin to bring a few with him into the Kingdom. I am growing tired of this bickering over tactics… Put on Kingdom eyes look past whether it lines up with YOUR vision, open up and see; God moved and He used an unorthodox method to do it. Rejoice for people are entering in relationship with Jesus. God makes Judges out of people like Isreal, disciples out of the most unworthy and filthy and sin stained, and because He choose to use the scum of society to build His Church, all people might know Gods strength, Love, and Grace. Where is the Halellujah 1,000 people just got saved forum? I guess we are too busy worried about other things to celebrate a move of God. I love you all, just tired of jaded motive and people not seeing the outcome because they are sooo stuck on a detail. Please get the whole picture. Jesus is about His fathers business and that is providing unconditional Love to the point of paying for our salvation… That is what we should be about, so where is the celebration?

  23. Is there evidence of this salvation you boast in? These 1,000 saved souls, do they now hate the sins they once wallowed in? Is this salvation of the Lord; have they been re-birthed by the power of God, or are they saved because they made a decision, or prayed a prayer, or did any work they claim as salvation? We are so quick to popishly claim someone as saved; but, the question is, what is this salvation based on?

  24. Anthony,

    I have gone to a few concerts, and I agree that there certainly can be a physical danger. (I’m not endorsing going into the concert, but standing outside on public property.) However, God will protect me until He doesn’t, and then I’m going to heaven, so I’m not worried.

    I’m surprised that you caution against this type of evangelism, because it is clearly the method we see in the Bible. The disciples went out into the world, and proclaimed the gospel. They went to Satanic places they weren’t invited. They didn’t try to lure people into their church with worldly attractions.

    I don’t think that proclaiming the gospel in a confrontational environment is “scaring people away.” The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

    Even if my theory is a bad one, Paul going into the Areopagus and using idols to his advantage is completely different from Paul advertising some worldly event at his church to get people to come and hear the gospel. Church is for believers.

    You say 40 people were born again at the county fair where you evangelized. That’s great! I have to say my results at all different types of venues (parades, gay pride events, teenagers, JW conventions, state fairs, parks, etc.) with all different types of people have never yielded such great results. I’d be very interested to hear what you tell people. Do you lead them in a sinner’s prayer? Do you tell them to repent? Do you discuss sin or hell?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  25. Lyn, it isn’t for us to state that people are not saved. It is Gods Grace that saves us through faith. You know that. Don’t belittle the results of an event or outreach so you can continue to bash the tactics. Each person will work out their faith as Jesus works on them. I would hate to say Jesus was a liar when he told the thief next to him on the cross that he would be in heaven with him. There was no outward change, but inward. That inward change that Jesus Holy Spirit works in us (rebirth, new creation) does change our lives. As I said last time, we must be careful what we say for we will give account for every word; including the condemnation of them whom Jesus has counted righteous. He decides who makes the cut and He alone knows the heart. How horrible is it to tell someone that just came to a real revelation and experience with Jesus; Confessed Him as Lord, and believes on Him for their salvation, to strip them of the blessed assurance that Jesus has purchased them and the mess they are in and provided a life and a future for them. How crushing is it to say, you confess and you believe (as romans 10:9 states you will be saved) but there is more to “do” to earn your salvation. Salvation is not based on our goodness or our works. It is Christ righteousness and the work He did on the cross and in defeating death that we might be saved. Do not decieve yourself or your brother; are there fruits that tell others Jesus has changed ones life… Yes; but have any of us even sat down to have a cup of coffee with these people that are so quickly being written off as “false” converts because the tactics were a little shady. Take your blinders off, get off your soapbox and rejoice because these people need others to disciple them and build them up… Throw a party for them and welcome them into the family… these people dont need people in their own righteousness making statements like “your not saved yet.” It is Gods Grace that saves us through faith, and not our call… especially for those we have not even met to say they are not saved.

    as far as church being for the believers… I feel for you I really do. It hurts me to think the churches doors are not open to the unbeliever, pray about that one.

    As for going where the sinners are… I am all for it; my caution was to evaluate and contrast the effectiveness of it all… bringing the unsaved demographic into a environment prepped to praise Jesus gives authority. Also if a person were to evangelize at a satanic concert would they tell the people who receive Jesus to leave; and then stay themselves. this is silly… Seriously!!! Or was it all vanity because they must not have really gotten saved if they didn’t leave right away. If you would recall I said “good idea.” in regards to going to a concert… I am not cautioning against it, I just have seen in my personal life more success bringing them in rather than going out.

    As for the county fair. We had a trailer set up that said “Take the Test… Are you going to heaven.” We had a few people in the trailer and others in front. I used some of my student leaders to help. It was free and seemed fun so people at the fair would come out. it wasn’t hard to say…”have you taken the test” and be excited and fun about it because we knew Jesus was doing big things. the survey asked two questions… do you think you are going to heaven: yes, no, i dont know, I hope so. the second question is why do you think so: I go to church, I’m pretty much a good person, I do the best I can, I believe in God, I’ve kept the 10 commandments, Other_____. none of the answers were right, unless they said “i believe in God” and we asked “who is God” and they replied with Jesus. In “other” they can write Jesus in and some solid people did. 95% of the people were disillusioned about Jesus and getting to heaven. Many didn’t have any idea one way or the other. At this point we delivered the Gospel, walked them through romans 10, outlined salvation with three things, confess, repent, receive. Confession of sins, repentance from it and reception of Christ sacrifice. Right there we prayed with them and got information on them to plug them in at a bible believing church near them so they can take the next “continuing” steps in their faith. We also prayed for Healing for a few people and Jesus was definitely there. Bill, Jesus will use those that are willing. Thank you for inquiring of the tactics used at the county fair to see a few enter into the Kingdom. To tell you the truth, people didn’t care that we knew about Jesus or had a few answers… they cared that we ascribed value to them, were fun people and they could see that we were people that have truly been set free and live in peace and joy… that is what speaks loudest, the rest is simply serving where we are sent.

    I have a busy next few weeks, Jesus is doing a lot everywhere, I am just lucky and honored He is choosing to use me in some capacity… I hope you all can see, Jesus can and will work through all things, and we must become all things to all people as the Word of God states. To deny this is to deny the validity of Gods word based on our own conceived notions of righteousness. I love you all and pray WE will continue in diligence seeking the face of the Lord and finding His ways that are so much Higher than programs, procedures, religion and so on.

  26. Anthony,
    what makes you think these people are saved?

    Another valid point is this…God does NOT work through false teachers. Those that are truly saved will not continue to sit under false teaching/preaching. The power of the Gospel does not lie in using man-made tricks to draw them in, such as playing satanic AC/DC music.
    We are indeed called to inspect the fruit of a professing believer. Someone is not saved because they say they are. A person is saved solely by God’s grace. NO credit for salvation goes to any mortal man, nor his ministry.
    You want to embrace folks as brothers and sisters based on their profession of faith. I suggest you watch the Washer video on this site http://defendingcontending.com/2009/08/09/true-christianity/

    You state it isn’t for us to say people are not saved, but yet, you seem to think you have the authority to state people are? Can you see into the human heart and tell if God has truly re-birthed the dead sinner? The doctrine of regeneration seems to be void from what you believe. You place an emphasis on salvation by what a man/woman may confess to believe; which is easy believism. It is also considered a ‘work’, i.e., read this, repeat this, or pray this, or make this choice, decision, etc. This is salvation by works. We cannot coax a dead heart into believing, nor can we popishly proclaim them saved, on the spot. Time will tell if the heart truly has been regenerated. Too many get excited about numbers, yet overlook those same numbers when they dwindle six months from now. This is a fact, surveys have been done on the number who profess to be saved, yet, within a years’ time, they fall back into their old pattern. Check out Barna for these numbers. Yet, people like you want to popishly proclaim them saved, which you have NO RIGHT to claim.
    How is a dead sinner saved? Simply by grace, nothing added, no hoops, tricks, or catchy phrases.

  27. Hi Anthony,

    It seems that you’ve rejected (for the most part) the biblical model of evangelism. The apostles and laymen went into the world, and proclaimed the gospel everywhere. They didn’t just invite people to church. If someone at a rock concert repented (became a convert to Christianity or a disciple of Jesus, which are the exact same things), I would expect them to leave the concert or join me. That isn’t silly.

    We don’t choose the proper evangelism method by what works best. We do what the Bible says, and leave the results to God.

    You said, that people at the county fair “cared that we ascribed value to them, were fun people and they could see that we were people that have truly been set free and live in peace and joy… that is what speaks loudest, the rest is simply serving where we are sent.”

    What if a Buddhist had a booth at the county fair, and really cared about people, and was really a fun guy? What if a Christian who has the eternal gospel of Jesus Christ doesn’t have the greatest personality? I guess my question is does the gospel really need our swell personalities to be effective?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  28. Wow… you guys enjoyed a free-for-all, eh? All I did was get saved by the Holy Spirit, professed publicly my proclamation of accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior in front of many, began ministering to the un-churched and thoroughly enjoying living my new life in Christ and shared my wonderful news with you guys and come back to find this.

    I did not get saved by Perry. As a matter of fact, I arrived late at church that day and missed the whole AC/DC thing. And I still got saved even without having seen it. How did that happen?!?

    Lyn, I agree that some of those who thought on that day that they had received Christ may not really have and they may have “fallen off the wagon.” But I can’t speak for them. I can only speak for myself. I know I was saved. My life transformed that day. Everything was new. Yes, I changed my ways. I was saved Easter Sunday, April 12th, at 12:22 p.m. at NewSpring Church. I was baptized on May 16th at 5:14 p.m. at NewSpring Church. And today is August 18th and I am on fire for the Lord – still.

    Lyn, you stated, “Is there evidence of this salvation you boast in? These 1,000 saved souls, do they now hate the sins they once wallowed in?” Is there evidence of your salvation, Lyn? I don’t know you from Adam’s house cat. I don’t know if you are a false prophet or not. And you do not know me. All you have as “evidence” of my salvation is my saying it is real. The other 999 people may say the same. Because you are not here, and not physically seeing the life changes in these people, in the way many of them have taken to personal evangelism to reach others, I understand your statement. I’m not a great orator, or even good at expressing myself period! So you may take everything I saw totally the opposite way I mean it to come out. I’m sorry for that if that is the case! Suffice to say, in my heart and in my head, I know I got saved the day NewSpring played AC/DC at the beginning of the service. Where I had not attended church more than three times in 15 years, I am now there every time the doors are open. I volunteer, I minister to others as I am called to do in scripture… I have given up my ways that were sinful and ungodly.

    I have no argument with any of you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I fervently believe in your First Amendment right to speak freely. Fourpointer, Pilgrim, Lori, Rick and Bill, thank you all for your insight. Anthony, your insights more closely mirror those that I may have, and I thank you for sharing them!

    You guys may not approve of NewSpring’s methods, but those methods saved my life. I’m the daughter of an Independent Baptist preacher, but the traditions of the church and opinions of some of the members of the church kept me away for a very long time. One case in point… my mother asked me to come to their church for a service. I told her I’d love to come if I could come in my best pant suit. See, I’m a rebel like that. You don’t go to church in pants! Mother said, “I’ll buy you a dress.” You’re missing the point, Mother. So, she said, “Well, I suppose its better that you not come if you can’t conform.” A Christian woman telling someone not to come to church because of clothing! I couldn’t believe that if Jesus were holding a service that He wouldn’t let someone in because they weren’t wearing “appropriate” clothing. So, again, I went more years without attending church. Then, I was invited to NewSpring by someone at work. “You can come as you are, you are welcome clothed or naked,” I was told. I was made so welcome. I don’t remember the context of the sermon that day, but I do remember this very subject was broached. The things that had kept me away had been stripped away in the planting of this church. I remember thinking, “I fit in here.” I loved the music, although I do miss the hymns I grew up on. But now, when I play those hymns on the piano, they hold so much more meaning for me. So now, when I meet up with someone who was stifled from attending church the same way I was, I say, “Come to NewSpring. You are welcomed here – as you are.”

    I’ve gone on for too long, said things you could care less about, I’m sure. But I thank you for the venue to express how much I love the Lord, how I want to live my life for His glory, and how I want others to know Him the way I have come to know Him.

  29. MJES,

    First, let me just say that I do in no way doubt that you are saved. So, whatever I write here, don’t misunderstand me. We cannot judge whether a person who claims to know Christ is saved, but we are commanded by Scripture to guide those people into living a life that shows evidence of a new birth. You see, there are churches all across America that are filled with people who think that showing up at church on Sunday morning cancels out what they did on Saturday night. There are churches that do not teach about sin, about righteousness, about holiness (that is, being completely different from those who do not know God). And there are many wolves out there who dress in sheep’s clothing, who are being used by Satan to bring sin into the church and lead new Christians astray. That is why we do what we do here–show people the truth of God’s word.

    You see, salvation means more than just “meeting Jesus.” It means turning your back on sin, and living a life that is holy and set apart to God. We look at our lives and we ask God if certain things are objectionable to Him. And if they are, we give them up. For the rest of our life. 1st John 3:9-10 (New Living Translation) says, “Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. So now we can tell who are children of God…Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.”

    If we are supposed to give up certain things (like, listening to Satanic music) and we don’t, then we need to ask if we are truly saved. If we say we belong to God, we cannot continue to enjoy the things we used to enjoy before. “We are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth…If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth” (1st John 1:6, 8).

    In fact, I would encourage you to read through the book of 1st John (Near the back of the Bible) since it gives one a clear understanding of what it means to follow Christ.

    The problem we have with a pastor bringing Satanic music into a church is, that is supposed to be a place that is consecrated (separated, set apart) to the worship of Almighty God. I’m curious about some things (and I am simply asking out of ignorance, not to badger you or anything like it): Did you ask them why they used that particular song? If so, did they tell you that one who calls themselves Christian should not listen to it? If they did, is that not a bit hypocritical on their part, to tell people “Do as we say not as we do?” Do you listen to AC/DC? And if so, are you going to stop now that you say you’re saved?

    Let me close by saying that if you are indeed saved, then may all praise go to almighty God! If He has truly shown His grace upon you to show you the truth, then Amen! And I would encourage you to search the Scriptures and learn what it means to dedicate your life to the one who bought you.

    PS–if you have any questions about Scripture, feel free to ask away. If you want to learn what is taught by some of the false religions which claim to be Christian, but teach things about God that are contrary to Scripture (i.e., Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, Catholicism, authors like Rob Bell and Brian McLaren), then we will be glad to help.

    PS (part 2)–Anthony, if you are reading this, would you please give us a list of the church hymns that have, as their melody, drinking songs? Because I have checked all the songs we sing at our church, and none of them do. Sorry.

  30. I would just like to say that I am a member of Newspring and I love going there. I had been hurt terribly by a church all my teenage years and I was so confused and afraid. I was saved as a young child and God has brought me out of so many things in my life! I do not go to Newspring to worship Perry Noble.(Perry would not want us there just to see him) I think he is a great speaker and I know that from the first service I attended that I was finally somewhere that people showed their love for God but also not afraid to admit that they were not perfect and that they were only saved by Gods grace. There is no need for us to judge each other because no matter what is said some people will always think a certain way. I often wonder why people try to make salvation so hard! Jesus already did the hard part. He died on that cross to save us( not for us to argue.)Just love Jesus and pray for each other. None of us are perfect nor will we be untill we home with him.

  31. ok, so from what I’ve read…most of you condemning New Spring have probably seen one or two messages preached by Perry and think you know how it works…well you don’t. Why are you all so friggin’ self righteous and pious. It’s the friggin’ gospel, and it’s preached the same everwhere. Yes, there are different interpretations of how it should be delivered, but the concept is exactly the same. Jesus died to save us from an eternity in hell. You can’t EARN his acceptance, he won’t love you any less because you sin or screw up, nor will he love you anymore because you’re a “good” person. I’m in college and its the people in this forum who are negative and condemning and hypocritical that drive my generation away from church and away from Christ. So shut your trap if you’re not gonna do anything to save us, stop talking if all you’re gonna do is tell us we’re going to hell and we’re not worthy of God’s love. WE KNOW! and guess what, you aren’t either. Don’t you dare point fingers at ANYONE without looking at yourself first….you heretics sicken me. You should be building us up, helping us to discover our relationship with Jesus. It’s MY generation that’s gonna lead next…it’s OUR time to step up to our paths set before us by God and lead the church in the direction God wants to take it. You should be ashamed for criticizing the gospel. It may not be how you like it to be presented, but it’s the friggin’ TRUTH! So deal with it! Those 300 people saved will fill 300 more seats in heaven. Does it matter how those seat are filled? People who accept Jesus aren’t “tricked” into accepting Him. They have a genuine desire to know him, so what’s the difference in how they accept him?

    PS:

    WTF is “Satanic” music??? Really??????

  32. Dear Kyle the college student.

    Wow.

    That is one of the most vitriolic comments we’ve ever received here.

    Not surprisingly though, it comes from one who alludes to being a Christian (professing Christians always seem to be more angry than even the Wiccans and Atheists who comment on here).

    Other than being taken aback by your colorful language and amazed at the fact that you have the ability to judge the hearts of 300 people to proclaim that they are saved, there’s not much else to say about your comment that doesn’t already speak volumes for itself.

    It truly stands as a living testament of the fruit of Perry Noble. Thank you for being a living example of what we have been warning others about.

    – The Pilgrim

  33. To Cindy:
    I don’t know what circumstances have caused you hurt in a church (or churches), but I can personally testify that a lot of hurt goes on in churches. Some people claim to be Christians, hang out in their little cliques, talk the talk, then stab viciously in the back. They will bear judgment from the Lord for their behavior. The Lord sees all, and it grieves Him that there are those who come in His name, but do not display His ways in their behavior. So I can understand how such experiences can drive people away from churches. Because churches are, after all, gatherings of people. We think it ought to be the safest place on earth, when too often it’s the most dangerous. Not because of God, but because of people. And because Satan wants nothing better than to destroy the things of God.

    Then someone goes to a church, and suddenly feels loved like they always hoped they would. People are praising the name of Jesus there, and it all feels and sounds “so right”. They get emotionally attached, because they want that love so badly, and they want that in a church. And that’s when things get difficult. Because God’s word tells us to test everything that is being taught, to see whether it is indeed soundly according to the whole of the Word of God. He wants Christians to love one another. But He first requires a pure and faithful church. Is the gospel being preached there the true and whole Gospel according to the Scriptures? Is the Jesus being preached there the true Jesus of the Scriptures? Or is it what Paul calls “another Gospel” or “another Jesus”, (not that there’s another, but a perversion of the true).

    So it is imperative that we test what is taught to see whether it truly matches up with the whole of Scirpture. We do not judge a pastor or teacher for his personal sins, for we are all sinners. But we need to determine whether or not he is proclaiming God’s whole truth. If not, we are commanded to expose such false teachers and warn others about him. It is not our desire to lift ourselves up by any means, but to warn out of love. If you knew a sheep was trustingly following a wolf in sheep’s clothing, would it be an act of love to just let them be led astray without saying anything?

    Yes, Jesus did all the work. What He now requires of His children is to deny our flesh, take up our cross, and follow Him. That is what repentance and sanctification is about. Part of obedience to His word is to test what is taught in His name. And if they display in their teaching or behavior that which is not according to the Scriptures, then no matter how “Christian” they may claim to be, it is not a place approved by God.

    Our great and loving God has provided true and pure fellowships where He desires for us to worship Him and love each other. It’s important we pray for Him to direct us to them.

    To Kyle the college student:
    If you think you are a Christian, you need to reassess what the Scriptures say a Christian, is and how he ought to speak and behave.

  34. Hmmmm………More fruit of Perry Noble’s “ministry.” Hey Kyle, you don’t think it’s a bit hypocritical that you come in here saying we should just all get along, and love each other–all the while spewing hateful, vitriolic bile and the gall of asps.

    Hope you enjoyed your one visit here.

    Hey Pilgrim–funny, isn’t it? He blows in here screaming at us that we have no right to judge other people–all the while calling us “heretics.” Yep. Typical of the Perry Noble Experience. Thank you, Kyle, for proving our point. Goodbye.

  35. Pharisees…

  36. Kyle, I will not tolerate your intolerance!

  37. Those who bring false teachers to task are often accused of being Pharisees. Yet Pharisees were contrary to Jesus, not on biblical grounds, but because He wasn’t obeying their rules, playing their game. Because they didn’t have any truly biblical argument against Him. Bible Christians are commanded to test teachers and preachers according to the Scriptures. And when we call false teachers to account, it’s not for some religious taboo, not because they aren’t playing by our rules, but because such teachers claim to represent God and preach Jesus, and aren’t abiding by God’s rules. Misrepresenting the faith we are commanded to contend for, and the Gospel we must defend. That doesn’t make their critics Pharisees.

    Such preduditial accusations are also the kind of behavior cultists display, and it is very hard to reason with them because their emotional attachment to their leader is far stronger than their love for God’s word (which they say they have, but are ignoring what it specifically says on the subject), for God’s ways (as described in His word), or for God’s truth (which is not what they want to hear).

  38. DavidW, You are spot on.

    I was wondering myself if Kyle even owned a Bible, much less ever read it.

    Again, well said David!

    In Christ,
    – Jeff H

  39. ok well then I’m done…obviously we have a difference of opinions and I’m not going to ruin my name, Perry’s name, or the church’s name anymore that I might already have. I’m sorry if I’m not worthy enough to worship the God who sent his son to die a criminal’s death and hang stark naked and bleeding on a cross for me. I was under the impression that it didn’t matter who I was and I could do so freely…

    My apologies for my language and outlandish behavior.

    Kyle

  40. Kyle,

    Thank you for your apologies. The issue here is NOT whether you or anybody else is worthy enough to worship the God of heaven. The fact is that NONE of us are worthy before God. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags before the holy One of Israel. What does matter is that the Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to atone for the sins of ALL who would believe upon Him. What does matter is that in that regard alone it does not matter who you are or what you were, for it has nothing to do with us, but it is by grace alone that we are saved.

    As for freely worshiping, we only have the freedom to worship as the Scriptures give us leave to do. May I humbly recommend this series on Biblical Worship and Music on my own website. The bottom line is that when we inject our own feelings and emotions of a depraved heart into the Biblical manner of worship we are sinning against the Most High who has prescribed certain principles for that worship. It is for these reasons that we take the stand that we do against what we see passing for Christianity in much of America. Tragically, it is an apostate, man-made, feel-good-about-yourself movement that sweeps through churches and it resembles nothing of what the true Church has looked like for almost two millennium.

    The Desert Pastor

  41. To Kyle the college student:
    First, I totally accept your apology for your language.
    I hope you understand it is not our purpose to condemn anyone for their behavior as if we are any better than anyone else. Not one of us is worthy to come, of ourselves, before the throne of Almighty God. All of us, who claim to be Christians must submit, with absolute surrender, to God’s word and what He says. And in doing so, we must keep His commandments. Which is why we take it seriously when He commands us to test all things. And out of love for others, we warn them of deceivers who preach a false Jesus and/or a false Gospel. Our loyalty must be first and foremost to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and His word. I encourage you to examine the Scriptures, test your pastors and teachers, hold them accountable to God’s word. And follow Jesus with your whole heart.

  42. Hi Kyle,

    Hey, you are totally forgiven concerning the language earlier.

    You should have seen me before I was saved by Lord Jesus… better yet, maybe not!

    I looked at all 10 of God’s commandments and they just destroyed me.

    I had broken them all. I’m not proud of that, rather I’m sickened by who I was. And that’s the point, Kyle… We were all like that before we were saved and rescued from our bondage to sin.

    Now we are a new creation in Christ and, as David and others have pointed out here, we want to obey Jesus.

    Before, we were enemies of God (His word, not ours), but now we are reconciled to Him through Christ and we belong to Him.

    This is why proper theology (thus an understanding of Who God is, Who Jesus is) is so important.

    We have access to God through Christ, but we must never forget that it is still God’s Throne we are approaching.

    Teaching (from any pulpit) that contradicts Scripture, or makes light of our relationship to God is deadly.

    Kyle, read your Bible, and grow in the Lord… you will see what the Lord can do – and that is exciting!

    It’s better than anything man can contrive.

    Blessings,

    – Jeff H

  43. Kyle, college student
    For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3: 23. We are all the same sinners in need of a Savior. Reasons for this site is because of all the false teachings and false teachers around.
    ” Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Mathew 7: 21-23.
    This is warning to people who consider themselves saved not unbelievers. The Bible is full of warnings like this. Whole denominations are falling into apostasy. As well as proclaiming the gospel we are also to contend for the faith, and usually be very unpopular because of this. The Gospel is not preached the same everywhere. So Kyle can you please tell me the reason for all these warnings in the Bible

  44. It is sad when a Christian tells someone they have to dress a certain way when they come to church.
    It is even sadder when a Christian tells a lost sinner that.
    (I am not saying it is okay to go to church naked or nearly naked in case someone thinks I am)
    Kind of reminds me of the Pharisees…..
    I know people like that, they believe a woman will go to hell for wearing pants.

    “Met Jesus Easter Sunday
    “I told her I’d love to come if I could come in my best pant suit. See, I’m a rebel like that. You don’t go to church in pants! Mother said, “I’ll buy you a dress.” You’re missing the point, Mother. So, she said, “Well, I suppose its better that you not come if you can’t conform.” A Christian woman telling someone not to come to church because of clothing!””

  45. Matthew,

    Yes, you were indeed beating a dead horse–and with the same, tired old stick that others have been beating it with. That’s why you won’t see your comment.

    You claim that we are “taking verses out of context” and yet that is exactly what you did–giving a hip/cool/relevant and quite lukewarm spin to the word of God. Yet not once did you address 2nd Corinthians 6, which commands us to separate from all things Satanic. Oh, that’s right. You don’t think AC/DC music is Satanic. How hip/cool/relevant of you.

    If you want to see a passage that deals with NewSpring “in context” then I suggest you read this post I made about the classic taken-out-of-context passage, 1st Corinthians 9:19-22.

    You could also read this about the bitter fruit that Perry Noble has produced. A pastor at the church that likes to sprinkle his talk with vulgarities. How absolutely edifying to the church!

    If that’s not enough, there’s this as well. Another pastor who thinks that Christians should “loosen up” and listen to Eminem rap about raping his 10-year-old sister. My, how our Lord would be so pleased to have His children listen to such filth! Oh, sorry. I guess I’m just being some fundamentalist, Bible-thumping Pharisee.

    Gee, maybe some day I can be as hip/cool/relevant as the potty-mouthed pastors at BitterSpring!

  46. Hello
    I have been doing some studying about the emergent movement, unbelievable. Pardon my english but,
    it just keeps getting worser and worser and worser
    peazy

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