Comments on: NewSpring church–a spring that brings forth bitter water

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Sat, 01 May 2010 21:06:53 +0000

R&R-- Did some of those "experiments" wind up looking like this?

By: revivalandreformation

revivalandreformation — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:43:38 +0000

I just read this post (I’m a little behind the curve…), and it reminds me of a few “interesting experiments” that two local churches (I’m from Canada, eh?) and one from the UK. One church here had a stripteasing woman pastor up on stage who took off items of clothing that had different stumbling blocks printed on them (pride, ego, sins…) and when she got down to the “nitty gritty”, shall we say, that’s when the congregation (mostly men of course) got to see the Gospel message… instead of what the men wanted to see of course.
Another church had different themes every Sunday. There was 50′s garage day with leather jackets, jukeboxes, cool cars and hot chicks to lure in the people. He then had cowboy day with all that encompasses the cowboy’s world, and the list went on. Whatever works and whatever entices the world, right? Then there’s the church over in England that promised free beer and hotdogs (if I remember correctly), to bring back the men. I imagine the pastor used some Scripture to soften the effect of the experiment. There’s a church in the States that offers services to those who are attending the ajoining nudist colony, I can imagine the Scripture that pastor used in his sermons…the apostasy is growing like wildfire. You would almost think the Holy Spirit has been pulled back somewhat the way things are going. I mean my goodness, what’s next? Never mind don’t tell me…

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:58:42 +0000

Any thoughts? I know I kinda changed the subject, but I meant for it to also apply to the comments on music. Actually, you hit the nail right on the head. The problem with so many "churches" these days (BitterSpring being one of them) is they put too much emphasis on what they call "worship"--which is exactly what you described. The whole notion of "The music makes me feel so good!" Then the pastor stands up there and gives a 20-minute pep talk that is supposed to make a person feel good about themselves for a little while--but then, like you, they walk in next Sunday morning feeling miserable, so they need that next 20-minute pep talk to feel good about themselves. Repeat weekly. Here's what Noble doesn't understand. When a body that claims to be the church gathers together, the purpose is to equip and edify the body of Christ. Ephesians 4:11-12--And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. I praise God for bringing you out of your depths, and into the glorious light that is our Lord Jesus Christ, to see that following Christ isn't all about us. It is all about shining a spotlight on Him and His perfect work on the cross, that we may have an example to follow (1st Peter 2:21).

By: reformed

reformed — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:49:29 +0000

I have been very interested in new spring criticisms since i heard about this recent “scandal.” I read James Duncan’s blog (which I think everyone should read, just google his name). I was once a new spring attender, I went there in 2001 when I attended the then Anderson College. Every service I went in miserable as usual, no joy in my life, but then the music started playing and i got the warm fuzzies and started “feeling” good. After many services of “feeling” good, I decided that I needed to get baptized because that’s what Perry told me to do. I remember I had to fill out this piece of paper so Perry could read it and determine if I really was saved. I wrote the typical BS. So, on my birthday in 2001 i was baptized. I thought I would come up out of the water with a feeling of being complete, or being full of God, or at least that I would have those warm fuzzies all the time..not just while singing at church. Well, big surprise, I was just as miserable as when I went in the water. That was devastating to me. I went on to almost fail out of college, party all the time, started smoking, got raped, hated everyone, and blamed everyone else, especially Perry Noble. He promised me something, and then he didnt deliver. I hated him.
Now, years later, God has changed my heart. Praise Him. I dont have that hate in my heart. Some bitterness, yes. However, I say all of that so maybe the New Spring followers can have an example of someone who went there, heard the preaching, heard the singing, and was miserable! Faith comes from hearing the Word of God, right? I mean, if you believe what the Bible says then you will agree with me. But, thats not what you get there. I actually had someone from New Spring tell me one time that getting “deep” doesnt save people. I couldnt believe it!! That goes completely against scripture. I also disagree with the “topics” that Perry loves to preach on. I think that you go to church to be fed, to be encouraged by the Word, and to be ready to go into the world and preach the good news. How is having a series on “dont get married until you deal with your baggage” have anything to do with the gospel? How does that equip you? I think they are important issues that all humans deal with, but we can discuss these things in other settings.
I guess I could go on forever…I’ll stop here. Any thoughts? I know I kinda changed the subject, but I meant for it to also apply to the comments on music.

By: The Desert Pastor

The Desert Pastor — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:54:42 +0000

Amen Truther! Very good points – “A rock is still a rock, and the heretic is still a heretic.”

By: Truther

Truther — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:44:55 +0000

I keep hearing that there are people that have come to salvation through these various ministries like Perry Nobles church and Mark Driscolls church. That may be so. God can and does work in many ways. When Joseph’s brothers sold him into slavery God did some incredible good through that, but does that excuse what the brothers did? I have heard of people finally stopping their rebellion of God because of a family member gunned down in the street. Does that excuse the murderer? Just because God may bring about good from the immoral, decadent ministries of these men does not excuse these men. I am so sick and tired of hearing about making the gospel relevant and making church interesting. John 6:44 says that “No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” It is the height of arrogance and pride to think that we can win someone to Christ through even the best of actions. We are merely being obediant to God, and hope that through God’s power, not the power of man, our incompetant actions may be used by the Almighty to draw people to Christ. It does not matter if a church has the driest, most boring sermons and singing in the world, if someone is drawn to Christ by the Father, a person will come in and be saved. Charles Spurgeon finally understood what salvation was be the preaching of a deacon that filled the pulpit due to a snowstorm. I heard of another great preacher, I forget who, that was saved because of a Sunday School teacher stopping by his work during the week and mumbling something totally forgetable. The Bible says that the earth proclaims the Glory of God, that the stones would cry out if the people would not. If God can use a rock, He can use a heretic. But the rock is still a rock, and the heretic is still a heretic.

By: shane

shane — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:45:11 +0000

Don’t speak out against Perry Noble’s “church” or he might send his goons after you.

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:18:46 +0000

AttemptingObjectivity,

I’m going to assume you are asking sincerely, and are like many who have never heard such truth. But really, your question answers itself. You admit that you can sit and listen and enjoy songs that glorify Satan, glorify sin, glorify Hell–simply because “It’s got a good beat and you can jam to it.” In other words, you are putting your own desires and your own feelings above those of Christ.

You “don’t condone” their lyrics. If you are a Christian you should be furious at such lyrics!! I, frankly, do not believe that a person can claim to love Jesus while enjoying music that glorifies everything that He calls “evil.”

I pray that you will see the truth, and repent.

By: Jeff H

Jeff H — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:27:38 +0000

Hey christ4ever, Here is a quote that, I think, might help you see where we are coming from:

The idea that the Christian message should be kept pliable and ambiguous seems especially attractive to young people who are in tune with the culture and in love with the spirit of the age and can’t stand to have authoritative biblical truth applied with precision as a corrective to worldly lifestyles, unholy minds, and ungodly behavior. And the poison of this perspective is being increasingly injected into the evangelical church body. - John MacArthur

By: The Pilgrim

The Pilgrim — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:37:53 +0000

Dear AttemptingObjectivity (A.O.):

Thanks for your comment.

Let’s look at AC/DC for just a moment. They glorify darkness, Hell, sex, drugs, rebellion, sin, and everything else that’s antithetical to Christianity.

Let’s look at God. He is holy, righteous, perfect, just, all light and no darkness.

So the question is, what does light have to do with darkness? What relationship do the things of the Devil have to do with the things of God? What benefit is there in placing before you the lusts of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the sinful pride of life when Christians are called to be set apart from such things?

In 2,000 years of church history the question of mixing blatant Satanic music, imagery, and behavior with the tings of God was a no-brainer. Now we have “churches” that are doing just that and if anyone dares to question them they’re quick with the “Pharisee” and “don’t judge” comments which reveal a woeful degree of biblical ignorance on their part.

These so-called “churches” have succeeded in blurring the lines between black and white, dark and light so that many people are left scratching their heads wondering (as you are) if a Christian should or shouldn’t listen to music that glorifies and makes light of wickedness, sin, and evil.

The American “churches” have done you wrong A.O. and I am sorry that it’s happened. And they continue to demonize and polarize those who stand for righteousness and holiness. Remember, Jesus said that IF you love Him you’ll follow His commands.

And finally, just because someone listens to music that glorifies Satan (and is probably spawned by him) does not mean that the one listening to it is necessarily “worshiping” Satan.

But also know this, billions of people will find themselves being cast into the lake of fire that never “worshiped” Satan. Sadly, this is true for many professing Christians as well.

“But Lord, Lord!”
Matthew 7:21-23

- The Pilgrim

By: AttemptingObjectivity

AttemptingObjectivity — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:25:25 +0000

Is it wrong, or I guess sinful, if I happen to listen to AC/DC from time to time? Musically I think their great. I don’t condone the lyrics but does that make me a Satan Worshiper?

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:42:32 +0000

Stephen,

Thank you for making some wonderful points about stumbling blocks, and NewSpring’s attitude of “Do as we say, not as we do” when it comes to Satanic music. Unfortunately, your use of Scripture may be counterproductive. As you can see from the responses from Noble’s defenders, they don’t seem to care too awful much about what the Scriptires say concerning what is acceptable in the church.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:28:56 +0000

I have a couple of questions for those who are defending the use of heavy metal music in a church to “reach the lost”. My questions are not meant to attack Perry Noble’s preaching for I have not listened to his sermon. However, I spent over 20 years of my life being enslaved to Rock Music and the power of it’s message.

First, Do you believe this music to be innocent and have no impact on lives? It is not neutral. It teaches rebellion, drunkenness, adultery, fornication, hatred, envy, rage, etc.. If you don’t believe me go look up the lyrics to some of the more popular AC/DC songs. It’s does not take a PHD or a THD to determine that these songs are a work of the flesh and Satan. Compare the music to the list of items found in Galatians 5 and Ephesians 5 (included below). Is the music of the Spirit or of the flesh and Satan? Answer that simple black and white question.

Second, have you ever considered that this music could be a stumbling block to some members of the congregation? Scripture clearly teaches we should not use our freedom for a covering for evil (1 Peter 2:16) Have you ever been addicted to this music to the point that if you hear the first guitar lick that the song will stay in your head for several days/weeks? It makes taking every thought captive a challenge (2 Corinthians 10:5) Also, using this music calls into question that it might be ok to listen to this music since the church uses it. Now if the music is of the flesh and Satan then you are encouraging those who have struggled with this sinful behavior to stumble. It really makes dwelling on the things of God to be tough when you are listening to the things of this world. And it ignores the teaching of Philippians 4:8

Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

I have placed some scriptures below for you to consider. Regardless of whether people are being saved at NewSpring, you have to realize that the music is evil. And using this music does not contribute to lost people being saved since faith comes ONLY by hearing the Word of God and not the music of AC/DC. Head the warning found in Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;

——————————————————-
Galatians 5: 19-23
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Ephesians 5
3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

1 Peter 2:16
Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.

Galatians 5:13-14
13For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Also: 1 Corinthians 10:28-30

[ Stumbling Blocks ]
Matthew 18:7
“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

Luke 17: 1He said to His disciples, “(A)It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come!

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:02:33 +0000

christ4ever,

Just so I understand. You think it’s OK to play AC/DC music in church, but not pornography, because AC/DC music is less Satanic?

Do yourself a favor. Go back and read through the comments that Lyn, Desert Pastor, and myself have written–comments which have been based on SCRIPTURE. We do not base our decisions on what is and is not appropriate in the house fo God based on our warm fuzzy feelings or in a vain attempt to be hip, cool, and relevant. We base those decisions on THE WORD OF GOD.

Can you say you do the same thing?

By: lyn

lyn — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:53:37 +0000

Christ4ever- you are unbiblical when you say, ‘Nobody knows the number of kids that this church has saved, including some of my close friends’.
We save NO ONE…the grace of God saves sinners. You are insinuating that a church has the power to transform a life. All we can do is preach the Gospel of Christ; the results, or the outcome is in the hands of God.
Luke 17:10 says, ‘So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.’ The word unprofitable comes from the greek word achreios which means ‘useless, good for nothing’. Apart from Christ, we have no worth or value. To think any human has the power to save just isn’t true. The power to change a life comes from Almighty God.
As for those who you say are saved, how do you know they are saved? Can you see into their hearts? What gives you the right to proclaim them new creations in Christ?
Do you understand the doctrine of regeneration? When a lost sinner is broken over his/her sins by the power of God, they cry out for mercy. When God graciously saves them, he ‘re-births’ them; they are born from on High. They are a ‘new creation in Christ’. The evidence of salvation is a changed life. They no longer desire their former ways. They detest what they once loved. They bear good fruit. They shun the things this world deems important. They flee sexual immorality, profane talk, drunkenness, hate, envy, gossip, slander, worldly forms of entertainment {movies, music, t.v. that dishonors God in any way}, etc.
You simply cannot proclaim someone saved as soon as they profess Christ. Instead of making such a claim, you need to pray that what they profess is genuine. Easy believism is rampant in America; it stems from preachers calling on lost sinners to repeat a prayer, or make a decision, or invite Jesus into their heart. It is a salvation based on a work of man…this is not found in the Bible.
From Ephesians 2:1, ‘And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins’. Notice, who quickens? GOD! What are we? DEAD in sin! A dead person cannot bring themselves back to life.
Also, reflect on this from Eph. 2: 8.9, ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.’

Not once in your previous post did you provide scripture to back anything you said. All you’ve posted is based on your opinion. Heed the word of the Lord, ‘There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.’
How do we stay on the narrow path? “man doth not live by bread only, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.” Deut. 8:3
When we stray from God’s word, we open the door for heresy and deception. 1 Peter 5:8 warns, ‘Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour’.
Be a good berean and search the scriptures to see if what your pastor proclaims lines up word for word with God’s word.

By: lyn

lyn — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:12:16 +0000

So where do you draw the line *Christ4ever*?
Is it okay to have an unmarried man and woman perform sexual immoral acts in front of the pulpit and say, ‘these two are going to hell!’, or to have a homosexual couple perform an act of perversion and repeat the same phrase? What is the motive of dragging a worldly song into what is supposed to be set apart as worship of a Holy God? Do such illustrations have the ability to break an individual over his/her sins? What does the Bible say?
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:16

Do you understand, from this passage, where the power to break sinners lies? In the Gospel of Christ…not in a song sung by a bunch of lost sinners {AC/DC}. The original meaning of this song has NOTHING to do with being saved from sin or being fearful of hell. It deals with selling your soul to Satan for temporary fame, fortune, and all that comes with it. If you want to reach people concerning their spiritual condition, you MUST do it God’s way, according to His word. If you want to preach on hell, sin, wrath, judgment, etc…you’ll find everything you need within the 66 books known as the Holy Bible. A true man of God who trembles at His word will expound from His word; he will not drag cutesy, cool, relevant ‘things’ into what is meant to be set aside as H-O-L-Y.

You also state, ‘Everyone doesn’t have to worship the old fashion way, we do live in the 21 century’. Do you really believe playing acdc’s highway to hell is an acceptable form of worship to a God that is holy, too holy to even look upon sin; who is exalted high above His creation, who is righteous, unchanging, merciful; a God that absolutely hates, with a deep, white-hot kind of hatred, ALL sin? And you insist that a song that glorifies Satan, cheapens the reality of hell, and doesn’t even mention God is worthy to be part of a worship service?!?
Almighty God is immutable, “For I am the LORD, I change not” Malachi 3:6
Why do you insist on bringing the world into the church through rock music and calling that ‘change’? Can you show us, from scripture, where this is ordained by God?
Rock music is ‘of this world’; with that said, how do you respond to this, ‘Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him’ from 1 John 2:15? How do you justify dragging the world into worship?
Those who still cling to the things of this world need to dwell upon this passage, ‘”But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?”- Luke 6:46
It is essential that we cut the ties to our sinful past, and that includes sinful worldly music. If it does NOT glorify God, we should not indulge in it. Again, let me reiterate from His word, “Depart! Depart! Go out from there, Touch no unclean thing; Go out from the midst of her, Be clean, You who bear the vessels of the LORD.” {Isaiah 52:11}

If your pastor wants to preach on hell, he must expound from God’s word. Luke 16:19-31 is a good place to start.

By: christ4ever

christ4ever — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:40:15 +0000

Please let me tell you a story and a little history about Newspring and PLEASE read it with an open mind.

Newspring is in Anderson, SC. Extremely close to both Anderson University and Clemson University. Every Sunday they preach to thousands of teenagers and college students that do not know the Lord. Some have never even been in a church before.

Nobody knows the number of kids that this church has saved, including some of my close friends. these people used to sleep all day Sunday and the thought of going to church never crossed their mind. But now they go to church, not all attend newspring still, and are involved. These people attend FCA and RUF on a regular basis now. They are in small groups and some lead small groups. Not only do they go to church now but you notice their new found love for Christ in their everyday life. These people are not faking their love for Christ, and Newspring is not worshipping satan.

I understand everyone has a right to their opinion, and i disagree with you. Whether you like it or not, Newspring church is worshipping christ and bringing people to the Lord every week, isn’t that what counts. I hope you are not saying that satan has never been in your church. You are correct, God does not grade sins on a curve. So that little sin you committed at the pulpit, or in your office, or the kid in hallway committed, are they not the same as this?

I am assuming that you do not know Perry and have not talked to him about anything that you are bashing. But am i correct that it is not our place to judge him. In the end everything is up to Christ, so why worry about this.

On easter sunday i did not attend Newspring because i was at the church that i am a member of. I did not see perry’s sermon but might watch it soon. I also think all of you should watch the sermon before making these comments to see how he tied it in. Maybe he just made a mistake, like you do from time to time, but that does not justify what is going on here.

“Desert Pastor”
I hope you are not saying that that all these people are worshipping satan because i assure you they are not. It is fine to disagree but to try and discredit their faith for Lord is wrong. We are all brothers in Christ, aren’t we?

By: The Desert Pastor

The Desert Pastor — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 03:54:54 +0000

“christ4ever”,

You are correct – this has nothing to do with pornography. I used that as an illustration. What it does have to do with is sin. In the eyes of God, sin is still sin although some (many) people think that God grades on a curve. Pornography for example surely is not AS BAD as say playing evil lyrics with the evil accompanying music backing it straight from the pits of hell.

Kind of like in the New Testament where the Pharisees decided that as long as they didn’t actually perform any sexual acts with a woman who was not their wife, then they were free to look AND lust after what they could not have. Jesus Christ made it clear that even looking was just as wicked as the actual act itself would have been.

You have yet to address the other comments I made. Maybe there is no true biblical defense which is why you were more concerned with the use of an illustration than you are with the truth. As for worship “the old fashion” way, God is still the same God yesterday, today and forever. His glory He will NOT give to another.

Music is only a small part of our worship no matter what century we live in. 1 Corinthians 10:31 states that, “Whether we eat or drink or whatever we do, do ALL to the glory of God.” So tell me, what part of AC/DC or the song “Highway to Hell” brings glory to the Most High??? Again, may I remind that God will NOT be mocked for whatsoever a man sows that he will reap. Those that sow to the flesh shall reap corruption, but those who sow to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

To what are you sowing?
The Desert Pastor

By: christ4ever

christ4ever — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:20:23 +0000

This has nothing to do with pornography!

It was a song, which the lyrics are not great but there are songs with far worse lyrics. To say this is the same as showing porn in church is rediculous. So Perry made a choice that you wouldn’t make but his choice was used in a way that he felt he could reach more people.

Everyone doesn’t have to worship the old fashion way, we do live in the 21 century.

By: The Desert Pastor

The Desert Pastor — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:33:30 +0000

“christ4ever”,

Thanks for stopping by to read. Let me illustrate the absurdity of your defense of Perry. How would you have felt if the following opening words were used while pornography was being shown on the screen or pornographic shots from….oh say…”Titanic” or “Dances with Wolves” etc. —

From “Perry” – “on easter the band will open with Mantovani as you watch these shots portraying lust, infidelity, fornication, adultery, etc. because a lot of people in this building are probably on that road! This will give you a reminder that your sin is open before God.”

The truth is that every true blood-bought child of God would be appalled and devastated that Christianity has devolved to such a state. Oh wait a minute, actually some of this is already happening if not in visual form in audio form!

What matters is the truth of God’s Word is upheld in all integrity! It is not the church that turns anybody to Christ, but the gracious work of the Holy Spirit of God convicting men of their sin and need for repentance before the wrath of the Holy God demands eternal justice on their souls.

As for Perry “not being a typical preacher” and “does questionable things sometimes”, I would have to say that the Word of God tells us that the man of God who ministers the gospel is to be without blame and above reproach! As for “ALWAYS preaches the truth and that Christ is our only way to salvation”, that is good. However, I could name you many who claimed to be ministers who have said the same thing and yet chose to add poison to the barrel of apples. Billy Graham is a great example of a good message being watered down by the heresy he held to and gave testimony to.

We here at DefCon fully recognize that no church is perfect and I as a pastor of a church see this not only in our own congregation but also in my own life. However, I am not and have never (and by the grace of God will never) stoop to using the world’s tactics along with the smut of the world and demon-inspired music to attempt to “turn” people to Christ. To say this is possible is a mockery of the sacrifice of Christ AND the infallible, inerrant Word of God.

In response to one of your last comments Newspring is “REAL” alright but “REAL” what I am not sure, for they do not qualify as a Biblical New Testament church unless you count Laodicea as one, but that was before the message of warning was sent by the apostle John which history shows they did not heed. For what it is worth, I am not sure what they are teaching in YOUR presbyterian church for doctrine, but people are NOT on they way to hell because we are “BASHING a CHURCH!” The ONLY reason people will go to hell is because they reject the plain, old-fashioned message of salvation plus nothing and minus nothing!

Finally, ultimately worship boils down to two entities 1) the worship of the ruler of this world who is satan (lucifer, the evil one), or 2) the worship of the One True God who is Maker of heaven and earth. You cannot WORSHIP one while worshiping the other. So, yes Newspring may be a great place to worship, but if there inclusion of the world and demonic music is any indicator then I would have to say it is only a great place to worship anything BUT the Lord Jesus Christ!

Friend, we are not here to play games with you or anybody who thinks they can play games with God’s Word or God Himself for He will not be mocked. Whatsoever a man sows, so will he reap! Only two paths to choose from – heaven or hell. The path to the first is narrow and VERY FEW find it, while the path to the second is broad and paved with good intentions.

Following the Risen Saviour,
The Desert Pastor

By: christ4ever

christ4ever — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:58:19 +0000

I can not believe all of you so called christians. Just because a church opens it service with Highway to Hell by AC/DC instead of the typical “worship song” that most other churchs sing doesn’t mean it’s aweful and they are worshiping satan.

Perry’s exact words were “on easter the band will open with AC/DC’s Highway to Hell, because a lot of people in this building are on that road.”

You people are actually bashing a church that turns hundreds of people to Christ. Isn’t that what matters?

Perry is not a typical preacher, and he does questionable things sometimes, BUT he ALWAYS preaches the truth and that Christ is our only way to salvation.

To say that his sermons are “man-centered” and other things are crazy. I don’t go to newspring regularly because i am a member of a presbyterian church nearby and have been at other churchs too. newspring is different than the others, but thats not a bad thing. I have disagreed with alot of things at other churchs and no church is perfect (you people should know this) But Newspring is not any less of a church than any i have ever been to.

They are for REAL, but most of you are to ignorant and light headed to see that. This will probably not change your mind because you don’t have a clue and half of you probably are on your way to hell because you are BASHING a CHURCH for crying out loud, who helps so many people and the community.

Karen you are fighting a lost cause with these people and i feel for you. Newspring IS a great place for you to worship.

By: lyn

lyn — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:10:49 +0000

This goes well beyond the playing of one satanic song ‘grace’; this man is in dire need of repentance. Do you understand what happens to those who preach God’s word? They will come under stricter judgment {‘Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.’ James 3:1} Do you understand what it means to fear the Lord, to have reverence for Him? I encourage you to watch the video posted here by Pilgrim entitled ‘judgment’.
From Titus 2:1, ‘You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.’ Now I ask, is AC/DC in accord with sound doctrine?
Noble sides with apostates, those who preach a ‘different gospel’ of which the Apostle Paul warns, ‘But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. ‘ Galatians 1:8
God takes the preaching of His word very serious, so serious that those who add to it or take away from it are under a curse. Rather than defend this man, pray for him. Call on him to repent of his whoredom, his mutilation of God’s Holy Word, his cheapening of the Gospel by adding worldliness to what should be kept holy and highly esteemed.
Why do so many follow and defend the false teachers that Christ warned us of {Matt. 24}? Because there is NO FEAR of the Lord, there is no reverence for Almighty God. There is NO understanding of the attributes of this God who sits exalted high above His creation; He is majestic, mighty, and worthy of fear and reverence.
People do not want the God of the bible, they want a god they have made, a god that will accept satanic rock music, a god that will accept flippant language, dress, and attitude towards worship. They want a god that makes them comfortable in this world, a god that doesn’t demand they “Depart! Depart! Go out from there, Touch no unclean thing; Go out from the midst of her, Be clean, You who bear the vessels of the LORD.” {Isaiah 52:11}
They want a god who’s just like them! BUT, what does the Almighty say?

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.” Isaiah 55:8,9

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 00:25:02 +0000

But for the grace, You're absolutely right. I mean, just because a pastor shows pornographic movies in a service as a way of introducing a sermon about the evils of pornography, who are we to judge? I guess you're right, trying to use Scripture to show why allowing Satanic music into the house of God makes us Pharisees. Besides, this isn't the first time Perry Noble has used AC/DC to bring 15,000 kids to Christ. This is also the same Perry Noble who told his people that he's such a big, important man that he didn't have time to hear about their petty little problems. So this is not an isolated incident. It is more like a pattern of embracing anything Satanic in order to grow their numbers. Perry Noble on TD Jakes and Joel Osteen– “Anytime I mention TD Jakes or Joel Osteen on this website we have idiots e-mail in with their “concerns” about issues in regards to their theology or teaching style…I have an incredible amount of respect for both of those men. God is blessing their ministries in an incredible way…and I know there are tons of things that I could learn from them.” He called Jakes “One of the most anointed men on the planet.” —TD Jakes denies the Trinity, denies the Deity of Christ, and preaches that the cross is an ATM. Joel Osteen does not have the guts to preach about sin or Hell. Perry Noble on “The Shack”– “I can say that, for the most part, I enjoyed it. It made me think…and I love books that make me do that. It will definitely cause you to look and God in an entirely different way.” —”The Shack” is a book filled with all kinds of heretical ideas, and has been embraced by every Emergent, Liberal, Unorthodox heretic on the planet. Do these quotes give you a picture of Perry Noble’s discernment of what is right and what is wrong?

By: But For The Grace Of God

But For The Grace Of God — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:53:54 +0000

Hey folks, just throwing in my 2 cents, as everyone else seems to feel like they are entitled to do.

Where is the notion of grace in all of this criticizing and condemning? Jesus is our example, Jesus extended grace to us, and in following, we ought to be extending grace to others.

Completely writing a pastor off as an apostate because of the use of one song, and refusing to even watch the sermon because apparently you have seen enough of what this man has done to be able to predict what the sermon is going to be like (which I believe is called prejudice and is illegal in other contexts) does not seem very grace filled to me. You aren’t even willing to research HOW the song was used before deducing with your magical future-predicting powers that it was obviously to go and make everyone in the audience believe that Satan is better than God or something else equally nonsensical.

Is that a Christ-like attitude? Or do you think that Jesus at the very least modeled to us that we should give Perry the benefit of the doubt, and check out the WHOLE service before passing judgment on it? Would that not seem like the kind of respect Jesus wants us to afford to fellow image-bearers of God’s?

Or do you think that Jesus is sharing your kind of attitude? How do you like the idea that you might get up to the judgment throne and have Jesus say something like, “I don’t even need to examine what your profession of faith was like, I know that by the few things I have seen you do that your profession was fake and I’m sending you to Hell.”

Does Jesus seem prejudice to you? I doubt it. So why should you act prejudice toward other people trying to serve God?

Because it’s not the same as your vision of serving God? Well, I doubt that you have a perfect mind, and I doubt you could perfectly figure out what serving God looks like exactly, so I doubt that you can say that no other interpretations of serving God are valid.

The only people in the Bible that I see with the kind of prejudice attitude that is displayed here in these comments is the Pharisees in their treatment of none other than Jesus himself.

So give the guy a break, he was trying to tell people not to think the way the song lyrics do about Hell, because that’s the way a lot of non-believers DO think about Hell. Last time I checked, there is nothing anti-biblical about telling people that.

Stop trusting in your own understanding so much, and be a little more accommodating of other people who are trying to follow Jesus too. We aren’t all going to look and act the same and go about things the same way. And that is okay. Its not bad. Its not something we need to fear.

Here’s a little bit of scripture for you as well, since everyone seems to be enjoying throwing their favourite verses out there:

Philippians 1:18 (New International Version)

18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

If an apostle can say that, why can’t you recognize it? If Perry’s methods aren’t the best possible ones, we should still be happy that he is proclaiming Christ. That’s a lot better than someone that doesn’t believe in Jesus preaching against Him.

Grace folks, let’s have some grace.

By: fourpointer

fourpointer — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:27:31 +0000

Actually, “Highway to Hell” is indeed a worship song. Of course, the one being worshipped is Satan. And there was NewSpring church, on the day when we are to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, offering full-fledged worship to Satan. But 8,000 kids “met Jesus,” right?

Karen and Anonymous, which is more important for you to defend? Man-centered methods of drawing in crowds who will be changed for a while? Or following the clear commands of Scripture? Because I have yet to see either one of you defend Perry Noble’s actions with SCRIPTURE. Yet Pilgrim, Matt, and I have given you plenty of Scriptures which warn us against bringing AC/DC music into church.

So, it’s pretty obvious that your allegiences lie more with Perry Noble than with the Scriptures. Especially after reading Anonymous’ comment that “All they hear are the lyrics.” Well, yeah. We hear a song containing lyrics that glorify Satan being performed in a place that is supposed to be set apart for the worship of God. You know, that whole “Do not join the temple of God to idols” thing I’ve been trying to get you to understand.

Karen–what about the fact that bringing AC/DC into church is no different than bringing pornography in? Do you agree or disagree?

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:38:53 +0000

Sorry, but I'd like to chime in one more time... Karen, you said 'this was not a “worship” song.' While I certainly agree with you there, what I disagree with is the notion that, when the Church gathers as a body, any action should not be thought of as worship and done with the utmost humility and reverence. It should ALL be worship from beginning to end.

By: The Pilgrim

The Pilgrim — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:01:12 +0000

Well said Matt. I'd like to make a couple observations starting with Anonymous' comment that essentially said it's a Holy Spirit thing, you wouldn't understand. Observation 1: Sorry, Anonymous, the Charismatics have the market cornered on that shallow excuse to justify unbiblical standards and wicked behavior (see Todd Bentley for a great example). This excuse is unreal because the Holy Spirit has as much to do with a "church service" honoring the horned god of rock 'n roll (with one of his best songs) as much as the Holy Spirit would have to do with a Benny Hinn crusade. What you and others fail to realize is that the defining attribute of the Holy Spirit is "HOLINESS." Observation 2: I was so repulsed by the performance of this song at New Spring (as can be seen in the video on this post) that I couldn't watch the whole thing. It shocks the senses! Observation 3: The folks at New Spring (and the countless like them across the Laodicean landscape) will listen to the account of Jesus' turning over of the tables of the money changers in the temple, and they will reply with a resounding and hearty "Amen." But then those same people will sit through an utterly evil (dare I say Satanic) song glamorizing and trivializing Hell during their own church service without batting an eye, (and will even defend it)! It boggles the mind! Observation 4: The defenders of this wickedness claim that since Bible verses are used before and after this song, that makes it ok. That's like saying as long as the crack house has an "As For Me And My House We Will Serve The Lord" sign on the front door, all else is good; or that the adulteress affair was ok because the couple used a hotel room containing a Bible in the nightstand. Defending this foolishness would be laughable if it weren't so sad and if it weren't for the fact that countless souls are perishing. - The Pilgrim Do not love the world nor the things in the world If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 1 John 2:15-16

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 03:11:15 +0000

My heart breaks for the people of New Spring Church. It is clearly a "seeker friendly" church, so their intention--which, apparently, is to fulfill Matthew 29.19--is correct. But when seekers find this body of Christians, to what kind of God are they being introduced? Is it the same God Whose holiness permeated the very ground on which Moses stood? (Ex 3.5) The God in Whose presence Moses "trembled with fear" on Mt Sinai (Heb 12.21); at the sight of Whom the Prophet Isaiah became "undone"? (Is 6.5) Is it the God at Whose appearance Abraham, the Prophet Ezekiel, and John the Evangelist fell on their faces? (Gn 7.1-3; Ez 1.28; Rev 1.17) Whose holiness so filled the House of the Lord that "the priests could not stand to minister"? (1Ch 5.13-4) In worship of Whom Joshua "fell on his face to the earth"? (Josh 5.14) Is it the God Who is "glorious in holiness, fearful in praises," (Ex 15.11) Who "art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and cannot look on iniquity"? (Hab 1.13) Are they encountering the God Whose glory fills the whole earth (Is 6.3), Who is to be served with fear (Ps 2.11), Whose ways and thoughts are as above ours as the heavens are above the earth (Is 55.9), Who is "greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him"? (Ps 89.7) Sadly--tragically!!--no. The god whom these seekers at New Spring Church are being shown is one who should be worshipped with satanic, profane, wordly, "relevant" garbage. People were brought to "Christ" through the use of AC/DC? Great. Too bad the "Christ" they committed themselves to was not the Christ of the Bible. Matt p.s. If this is the extent of the holiness that they are attributing to their god, then how much holiness can they truly believe is expected of them? (Ex 19.6; Lv 11.44; 19.2; 20.7, 26; 21.8; 1Pt 1.16; 1Th 4.7)

By: lyn

lyn — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 03:01:03 +0000

Anon~ you fail to understand scripture. God is NOT involved in what this church is doing. The fact is this; when ANY worldly form of entertainment is dragged in, it taints anything you may think is holy. Darkness and light do NOT mix, it is just that plain and simple. Holy and unholy cannot coincide in the same worship service. This is what God’s word teaches {read the passages already posted from 2nd Corinthians 6}. You can boast all day long of the hundreds of converts you claim to have, but you are NOT following scripture in your form of worship. If you go against God’s word, He will turn His face against all you try and do; anything you claim to accomplish is merely a work of man, NOT of the true Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit will NOT dwell in a church that uses worldly means to lure in lost sinners. Why? Because God has already given us all the essentials we need, it’s simple. The preaching of the word [the whole counsel] is all that is needed.
May God open the hearts of all who defend men who use worldly methods, may He pour into these hearts discernment.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:47:14 +0000

Karen, do not fight any longer. Only those that have been to NewSpring can feel the weight of the Holy Spirit there. We must not fight with those that do not understand because it brings no more glory to God.

They do not know of the hundreds of genuine salvations that occurred. How do we know the truthfulness, they were asked after the service to talk to us about what happened. These were lost people accepting Christ for the first time and it was hundreds.

All they hear are the lyrics, they don’t feel the weight and emphasis that was put on it that actually people go there and actually live this way with this mind set.

You may judge NewSpring but remember if we judge something that the Holy Spirit is at work in we get judged just as harshly.

As for the references to Mr. Noble. Seriously, why has anyone reverted back to 5th grade in calling someone names. That brings Jesus Christ no glory at all.

Slandering does no glorification at all. Let’s concentrate on glorifying Christ and trust that NewSpring is making decisions bathed in prayer and if not then scriptures illustrate that justice will be brought.