Sorry about the way I’m speaking, C music is Chr-stian music, and G-d, L-rd and Father are the same thing (I live in China, can’t say much, but I hope you get my drift)

Of course, there is some music that is classified as C Rock when it is more secular, and also some secular music that swings toward the secular side. Does this mean all music is like this? No.
Of course, while there is some good secular music like these:

I am not my own, for I have been made new
Please don’t let me go, I desperately need you.
-Meteor Shower, Owl City

And: Lost and insecure, you found me, you found me
Lying on the floor, surrounded, surrounded
-You Found Me, the Fray

There is also music like this:

I like you a lot, lot, all we want is hot, hot
Boys, boys, boys, we want boys in cars
Boys, boys, boys, buy us drinks in bars
-Boys, Boys, Boys, Lady Gaga

Love me, hate me, say what you want about me
But all of the boys and all of the girls are begging to if you seek Amy
- If You Seek Amy, Britney Spears
(Say If You Seek Amy out loud…yep)

So, even though there is some secular music out there that is okay, there is some that could never be mistaken for C Music. C Music is meant to glorify our Father, but sometimes if the bands want to draw in secular listeners, then the bands will have to tone down the use of our Father’s name because they don’t want to listen to preaching.

I am not trying to glorify these lyrics, I admit that I had a hard time choosing which was which, and I admit that some artists are quite lukewarm. However, there are some amazing C artists out there, that produce lyrics such as these:

Who am I that the L-rd of all the Earth
Would care to know my name, would care to feel my hurt
Who am I that the bright and morning star
Would choose to light the way to my ever wand’ring heart
NOT because of who I am, but because of what You’ve done
NOT because of what I’ve done, but because of who You are….
- Who Am I, Casting Crowns (lukewarm, I think not. This is the least self-serving song ever)

I’ll be by your side whenever you fall in the dead of night whenever you call
And please don’t fight these hands that are holding you
My hands are holding you
- By Your Side, Tenth Avenue North (It’s from God’s point of view, and personally I think it’s amazing and strongly supported by Scripture)

So, there are still some amazing songs out there in the world today.
I do not agree with your point of view on these lyrics:

You can’t love if you don’t love yourself

I don’t think she was speaking about being self-serving, but much more on the viewpoint that if you don’t accept yourself the way that your Father made you then how could you love anyone else? It is speaking to those that have a low self-esteem and saying, “Hey, G-d made you, stop hating yourself!” You cannot love other people if you don’t love yourself first, because you will be too busy worrying over what they think of you and such issues. It is a high problem among teens these days.
Also:

It’s how you live

is not speaking about the deeds you did. It’s saying that you should live your life for G-d and live out your faith. Lukewarm Chr-stians are the ones that don’t live out their faith, this song is telling them to STOP being lukewarm. It says in the Scriptures that G-d wants us to live out our faith rather than believe it and just stop there.

Personally, I think that we should judge the songs on the lyrics rather than the genre that they are put into. Not all C songs are lukewarm, and not all secular songs are pure evil.

Thank you for listening!

No problem :) I understand where you are coming from. Yeah, I agree with you. It is becoming more and more difficult especially as the world redefines tolerance to mean acceptance and then demands we all ‘tolerate each others beliefs.’ When you try to tell someone that living in a ‘free’ country you may have to ‘tolerate’ their right to their own beliefs but you don’t have to think their beliefs are any less wrong or any less sin you get some strange looks.

I think we live in a time where everyone wants to see themselves as ‘essentially good’ or ‘misunderstood’ or whatever they can say to pat themselves on the back with and stay comfortably in their sins. No one wants to look in the mirror of the Word and see the horror of what we are apart from the Grace of God.

Thanks for the excellent reminder! God bless and have a great weekend, I am off to CT to visit some family :)

-Jason

Have you noticed how they have changed in the song Amazing Grace in some places from a retch like me to someone like me?

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

I think amusingly enough we may both be in agreement but saying things different ways :)

I absolutely agree with you that there are those who are / or have been making a killing of the ‘Christian industry’ for years. It is disgusting and they will be judged rather severely. Jesus himself went through the temple with a whip driving out those who were doing the same type of thing. I tend to doubt he will deal anymore kindly with those who have merely modernized it.

I do understand that Acts 4:33 was about grace and love of the brethren and supplying for their needs, not entertainment. I was merely cautioning against those who would take this to a legalistic extreme and end up condemning everyone around them and ultimately themselves in the process. I cautioned against it because I have seen it tear people apart.

I watched so many well to do people who had been blessed with nice homes, cars and even boats condemning people like my family because while they gave 200 or 300 hundred dollars to the offering plate we were all excited because we had milk that week for me and my 5 younger siblings and had still managed to save $16.75 cents to put in the plate. The snide looks and comments about ‘monetary priorities’ from these brothers and sisters in the Lord hurt. I don’t say that to try to be dramatic, merely explaining where I come from and that, while I may not be in your position at this time in my life, I do understand.

In the same vein I see so many throw a general blanket statement at artist who chose to use their talents to try to glorify God and accuse them all of being greedy money grubbers. As I mentioned in my first response your statement sounded as if you were insinuating that; I did however I hope make clear that I was acknowledging that I wasn’t certain that was the intent and of course tone is difficult to guess in written things. Someone else may have ‘heard’ it entirely differently :)

I do want to say Jonathan that I agree wholeheartedly with you that there is a war going on for our souls and those who would sit and in the name of ‘Christian Love’ fail to remind us of the need to flee sin and repent when we fail are doing a huge disservice to the body of Christ. Praise the Lord brother that you see this as well! It breaks my heart to see so many sit in churches and hear of nothing but the Love of God. We need the Love of God; we need it desperately, but we also need change. The scripture is indeed there for strength, exhortation and encouragement; and it is equally there for teaching, reproof, correction and training in righteousness! Woe to those who would take away from those, especially those in leadership. They do so to the detriment of souls and they will be judged for that.

I think that the Christian music industry has within itself those who follow all of the scriptures, those who try and likewise those who are wolves in sheeps clothing. I think the same of the church. Likewise I think an artist can have a song that is purely entertainment, and while not evil or offensive could not be considered a praise and worship song. That same artist may also have a song, even on the same album, that is a praise and worship song. There is an inherent danger though in blanket judgments. We not only run the risk of condemning something that could have been a blessing, but we likewise run the risk of accepting something that may be an abomination.

If I may share a song that has always been one of my favorites and never fails to touch my heart…. The artist is Newsboys, a Christian Rock band playing now for 20 years or so I believe. They do a lot of ‘entertainment songs’ and they equally do a lot of praise and worship and thought provoking songs. This one I believe would lyrically agree with what we are both saying. It helps to hear the sarcasm in his tones when he sings, but I think the idea is clear.

Newsboy: “Lost the Plot” from “Take Me To Your Leader”

would you bring me something from the fridge?
Heard a rumor that the end is near
but I just got comfortable here.
sigh. Let’s be blunt.
I’m a little distracted.
What do you want?

Headaches and bad faith
are all that I’ve got.
First I misplaced the ending
then I lost the plot.

Out among the free-range sheep
while the big birds sharpen their claws.
For a time we stuck with the shepherd
but you wouldn’t play Santa Claus.

sigh.Let’s be blunt.
We’re a little distracted.
What do you want?

Once we could follow,
now we cannot.
You would not fit our image,
so we lost the plot.

Once we could hear you,
now our senses are shot.
We’ve forgotten our first love.
We have lost the plot.

When I saw you for the first time
you were hanging with a thief
And I knew my hands were dirty,
and I dropped my gaze.
Then you said I was forgiven
and you welcomed me with laughter.
I was happy ever after.
I was counting the days
when you’d come back again.
we’ll be waiting for you
When you comin’ back again?
we’ll be ready for you
Maybe we’ll wake up when…
maybe we’ll wake up when
you come back again.

lies.Let’s be blunt.
We’re a little unfaithful.
What do you want?

Are you still listening?
`Cause we’re obviously not
We’ve forgotten our first love
We have lost the plot.

And why are you still calling?
You forgave, we forgot.
We’re such experts at stalling
that we’ve lost the plot.
lost the plot

When you come back again
would you bring me something from the fridge?
Heard a rumor that the end is near
but I just got comfortable here.

If I’m reading your comment right then I guess I am curious as to how you are also following this command? I’m not trying to rude and sarcastic, but you have a job I assume? Do you own a house or car etc? The legalistic mindset is to see that verse and use it as an absolute to live by. Ironically enough the very people that are saying that are sitting in their homes, having just driven back from their jobs and have their soda sitting on their table next to their computer that they are busy passing judgment on people from. That verse was not a command; it was a record of what they chose to do. Ananias and Sapphira were killed because they lied to the Holy Spirit in an attempt to emulate what was happening in order to look pious. They didn’t die because they failed to sell all they owned and distribute it to the poor, rather they died because they lied about what they had done.

We ARE called to help those around us. Bless those who curse us. Pray for those who despitfully use us. Give asking nothing in return and lend to a brother in need without charging usury. You are absolutely correct that there is a calling to be charitable in everything from our belongings in helping the poor to our attitude and grace in helping the weak – be that spiritually or physically.

I do COMPLETELY agree with you that there is often a lot of charity missing. Unfortunately this is often missing in our own lives as well and I doubt either you or I are exempt from this statement. I think we would do well to live what we are called in freedom not in legalistic endeavors that merely serve to bring us back into bondage. “But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?” Gal 4:8-11.

I am NOT suggesting that giving to the needy is putting yourself in bondage. I am suggesting that there is a point at which charity becomes nothing more then the product of legalistic actions and kindness nothing more then a mask behind which to hide a hollow heart. ‘Then he added, “Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”‘ Mat 9:13

There is a balance. If God calls you to give something up and give it or the proceeds to the poor. DO IT!!! Don’t sit and hide behind ‘grace’ of ‘freedom’ when God calls you to move. Likewise do not condemn someone else because they have not been called to do what you may have been.

Jonathan, I know this was a lengthy reply to your comment…as we’ve seen I can be lengthy…. but please don’t misunderstand me; I am not saying you are wrong, just cautioning that the way I read it made it sound perhaps like it was insinuating a level of legalistic judgment that may not have been your intent. I wasn’t certain but felt it pertinent enough to the discussion to comment on the idea I believe the Bible is trying to get across to us in relaying this piece of history. As I said, this may not have been your intent at all, and I ask your forgiveness if I have misinterpreted what you said. You are indeed correct that it is a very important thing.

God Bless!
-Jason

I like that song “poor wayfarring strnger”

That being said, I imagine they charge what the recording industry sets the prices at and I imagine it covers their equipment, time etc. Bear in mind that while some of these folks have other jobs they use to support themselves with, for many of them this is also their occupation.

I dare say the Lord might raise an eyebrow at us just taking what these artists work so hard to produce and then telling them ‘go in peace, be blessed and feed’ and failing to ‘feed’ them.

As mentioned, I have been friends with and known enough Christian artists to know that while some may do well, the VAST majority don’t exactly live in the lap of luxury… by any stretch of imagination.

My grandfather is a pastor. He works a side job to support himself. Despite this I am sure there are those that would ask how much he is charging for his spiritually inspired sermons.

None of them are charging an outrageous amount. If they do well, then Praise the Lord! He is blessing them; I pray that they will not fall prey to greed but will pour His blessings back out on others.

Tough one to answer. Musical tastes vary widely, and no matter who one likes, someone is bound to take issue with something about it. For instance, some Don Francisco songs have really drawn my focus upon the truths of Scripture. Other tunes of his don’t do much for my spirit.

“I get tired of trying to listen to all of the words of an artist’s songs to determine if they are sound.” I can relate to that. But we really do need to do that. Because if we don’t, we go just for the tune that we like, and the “message” gets pounded into our heads through the medium, until it alters our beliefs or convictions incrementally.

May the Lord guide and direct you to listen to music that is beneficial to your spirit.

I hear you on that one. It’s of course always still good to be aware of the music and lyrical content no matter who you are listening to. Having bands you trust though certainly helps to keep you from having to constantly be wondering though.

I would love to help you find some theologically sound bands to add to your list but I want to be respectful of the folks that run this board and don’t want to deviate the conversation.

If the owner of this board is willing I am fine with him emailing you my email address if you would like to contact me directly. I also noticed that you linked your name to a blog, if this is you I would be glad to contact you that way.

As I said though I respect that many of the folks here have different personal beliefs than I do in this area. They have been very polite, open and honest in presenting their beliefs and I wish to respond accordingly. …Not that I would be excused to do otherwise even if they hadn’t been so kind :) … Biblically I feel that I would be violating the concept of avoiding doing something in front of a brother that offends that brother merely because I disagree with them. I hope you understand where I am coming from there :)

Of course as this is their board if they want to offer suggestions…. :)

God Bless Shane!

-Jason

I find myself listening to more secular music, talk radio, and recorded sermons. I get tired of trying to listen to all of the words of an artist’s songs to determine if they are sound.

That is very disturbing! As a Christian I am glad you mentioned this evil movie. I will be keeping my eyes open and warning my friends about this.

Something like this is unequivocally evil and against the Bible. There is no room as far as Christians are concerned in this for ‘entertainment’. The Bible calls it sin point blank. It is not opinion, someone’s personal feelings or anything like that. So I would have to say that it is definitely a completely different thing then Christian Rock or anything like that.

Once again, I pray that these people repent before it is too late.

Joe,

I agree, we are absolutely called to a higher calling. I would however caution against dismissing an entire avenue with which to witness for the sake of some. I agree that there are those that get into too much foolishness and a compromised lifestyle. There are just as many in the churches including elders, deacons and pastors. None of us are perfect. We shouldn’t forget the grace we are given, or as the Bible says ‘so quickly forget where we came from and that at one time we were that way’. For some of us perhaps we are still maturing from that point. All of us are at different places in our walk and I pray for those especially in the spotlight that the Grace of God would empower them to walk a walk worthy of the calling. With this in mind we should also not excuse sin when the Bible has clearly defined it as such.

Jonathan and Joe… on that same topic as they tie together…

I know an artist who called herself Christian has recently announced that she is a homosexual. While sin is sin and her sin is no less sin then someone who lies all the time, she is choosing to live a lifestyle in opposition to the Word of God. We cannot stand by and condone that, and as this is not a ‘oh they slipped and said a cus word’ thing, or some onetime out of the ordinary thing, this is a lifestyle, this is walking in sin, as Christians this person needs to be told they need to repent and turn from this, and publicly, or (and possibly anyways) they need to step down. Certainly Christian stores etc should not be carrying her music any longer, and in fact most are refusing to and have pulled them from the shelves and have been outspoken in denouncing her life style and calling her to repent.

We are called to a higher lifestyle. Sometimes it is obvious what that is. We still need to be careful not to confuse our personal preferences, tastes, bias or opinion to determine what is a higher lifestyle for the very reason stated. We aren’t God. Our thoughts are indeed not His. Ultimately God WILL judge that and I don’t doubt that there will be much stubble that burns; both in the ‘Christian entertainment’ realm and in the Churches. In what we know, we MUST however strive to live to that higher calling. Let God judge the rest.

As the Bible says, if it is not of God it will come to nothing and prove itself false by that. Meanwhile, let’s be wise as serpents, Gentle as doves and let’s not pit the house against itself but do let us be bold to call out sin where the Bible has already judged it for us. As you know, I feel this topic is one where we DO have guidelines that MUST be followed if anything is to be called ‘of God’. Our personal opinion on whether something by Beethoven is more of God then something by Demon Hunter may not be the best measuring stick. Things you would doubtless except I tend to doubt your great great grandparents would have accepted. The very hymns we sing were once the subject of this same controversy. There are clear guidelines. Division comes when we start drawing our own in. Failure comes when we compromise the ones God has clearly drawn.

I think it is safe to say I will be joining you both in praying that God protects people from deception…and corruption… from this evil movie/play.

God bless you both and thanks for the great discussion!

The movie ” Corpus Christi ” is due to be released this June to August. A disgusting film set to appear in America later this year depicts Jesus and his disciples as homosexuals! As a play, this has already been in theatres for a while. It’s called ” Corpus Christi ” which means “The Body of Christ”.

One of my favorite Psalms :)

So self serving…And I think this is why we have so much of combining the things of the world with the so called things of God. So called because they really don’t know what is pleasing to God…

I agree this is certainly a danger. Hence why we are called to be discerning. Wise as serpents yet gentle as doves.

Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding you. To be honest I wasn’t 100% sure I followed everything you were saying. I don’t mean that disrespectfully, merely honestly.

A salvation that is based on works is of the tares,

And a salvation not manifested by works is dead.

the only thing that should bring anyone to Christ is the fact that they are lost and in need of the Savior.

Indeed and amen :) There are many poor reasons. Everyone is doing it, my parents did it etc. Many pastors try to preach fear. While I understand their motivation is to reach people and while I agree that there is a healthy amount of fear as we are indeed called to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling…I pray for those who accept Christ out of fear that they would come to know the love of God and would walk in that fullness.

Not entertainment!

So what you are saying is that God is not God enough to use this medium to open someones eyes?

This shines the light on a fundamental flaw of the argument that Christian Rock is evil because it is entertainment.

We are called to do all to the Glory of God. While I would argue that SOME (not all mind you) Christian Rock is modern day worship music I doubt I would convince you. I could tell you that there are many songs the lyrically, blatantly, give God the glory and exult His Holy Name. I can’t count how many times I have stood and sung, or sat in the car and sung these songs while my heart weeps at just how much God has done for me and at the majesty of the Love He has shown me through His Son Jesus. I wasn’t on an emotional ‘high’ I was broken before God and just awestruck at His love for me and at how short I fall of His standards and the Grace He gives me to press forward, put those things behind me and continue to walk out my faith as the flesh is daily put to death and slowly starves as God’s word and presence continues to fill me.

I could tell you all of that and I would be telling the truth. But we can safely disagree on that if need be as it doesn’t change what I would like to respectfully propose.

Let’s agree that rock music is entertainment. So we have Christians out there playing rock music. These people are called to glorify Christ in all they do. So they chose to sing about the Lord and what He has done in their lives. They chose to reach out to people and point them towards the Lord by their lyrics. So let’s say it is just entertainment. Then I would ask you; If they are ‘entertaining’ in this way and are not indulging in evil then are they not living out the very idea of ‘doing all to the glory of God’? If someone’s sees how they live their life, or hears the words they say and believes, then is that person’s faith any less real for the medium God prepared their heart to be receptive to?

Tell me; how would you play a game of scrabble to the Glory of God in the way in which you are defining that term? Would you say ‘thank you Jesus’ every time you got a word? Would you only spell out words that directly glorified God and avoid words like ‘car’ or ‘house’? Of course not. That would be misunderstanding the very idea of what is being said. In ALL that you do, in your life, your overall, your day to day walk, and yes in the details, DO ALL TO THE GLORY OF GOD! :) :) :) Remember though, sometimes in the details, doing something to the Glory of God is about receiving it with thanksgiving because there is no inherent way that it itself ‘Glorifies God’. It’s your heart attitude more then the action – NOT REFERRING TO SIN. For this same reason if we do something good for the wrong reason that is no less then sin. It works both ways….something I think we would both agree that too many people try to gloss over.

Legalism is a dangerous thing. Paul warned about this many times. At one point while speaking on it he says: “These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body., but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh” – Col. 2:23

I imagine this is the ‘ah ha’ point where people will try to tell me that this is merely about ‘entertaining the flesh’. The Bible is clear on what indulgence of the flesh is. Too many Christians try to define ‘fleshly things’ as anything not inherently ‘spiritual’. They are missing the point again and once more falling into legalism. The works of the flesh are clearly spelled out in the Bible. Avoid those things. The Bible tackles the idea of things that are not spiritual per-say but are not evil. It tells us those things are lawful. They just may not be beneficial. Won’t hurt us to do, but in all things like that, moderation. Don’t starve yourself because you never get into the meat of the Word.

Now please bear in mind that while we apparently disagree on whether or not there can be a positive spiritual feeding through Christian Rock music, I still always tell people that their first and foremost source of spiritual food should be the word of God and their time in prayer with their time together with other believers following a close second. I believe that is clearly spelled out in the Word of God.

And when its about entertaining our flesh its not about giving praise and glory to God.

If for you it is all about the flesh, yep, probably should avoid it. Now, I do think as stated, you can stand and praise the Lord at the top of your lungs and if you are only doing it to look good in Church then not only are you not glorifying God but you are also sinning. In the same vein I can polish my shoes and in my heart be thankful for those shoes and for the wedding I am wearing them to and I did that to the Glory of God. Same with the music. Same with the scrabble :)

Because we can’t please God in our flesh. Only in His Spirit can we be pleasing to Him.

Yes, and that is why the Bible says before we were saved all our ‘good works’ were just filthy rags. Now, as Christians, saved by the Power of God we can please Him and Glorify Him in all things. If some chose to even use their musical talents to reach out to people, then Praise the Lord! While people sit and debate over whether this music is purely entertainment or if it can have a redeeming spiritual value these musicians are out there reaching the lost and many many of them are getting saved. Their fruit has born out. I come from that scene. I know it. Yes, some falls on shallow or thorny ground. So do the words of many preachers. Is there still fruit? Yes. Is the gospel being preached in the lyrics? Yes. Do the musicians openly give God the glory for their musical abilities? Yes.

I would say their fruit is born out.

1Jo 2:15-18

Amen :) And allow me to say, if you allow Christian Rock to be more important to you then the Lord, your walk with Him or allow it to become an idol, then it has become sin to you. Repent. If you can’t seem to change that, then stay away from it. The same goes for anything, even leading a Bible study etc.

So self serving…And I think this is why we have so much of combining the things of the world with the so called things of God. So called because they really don’t know what is pleasing to God… Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

A salvation that is based on works is of the tares, the only thing that should bring anyone to Christ is the fact that they are lost and in need of the Savior. Not entertainment!

And when its about entertaining our flesh its not about giving praise and glory to God. Because we can’t please God in our flesh. Only in His Spirit can we be pleasing to Him.

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

That being said, I know many young adults who have radically and permanently had their lives changed to the Glory of God by Acquire the Fire as well (as I mentioned before I believe) by God opening their eyes via the medium of Christian Rock music.

The Bible teaches that a spring cannot send forth good water and bad water; and there are some obvious things we can look at and say the word of God clearly condemns this. Other things we can’t. I think what you will find though is that people will try to apply the same judgements to things or events that they would apply to people. The problem is you can’t. In all of the verses in the Bible where the analogy of a ‘tree by it’s fruit’ ‘well bringing forth bitter and sweet water’ etc the analogy is to be applied to a person’s life, not an event.

The problem is in how people take things. As I mentioned (so know one can accuse me of ‘going light on sin’ or ‘compromising the Word of God’) there are black and white things in the Bible and there are things our conscious clearly tells us to avoid. There are still things though which we do not have a predefined black and white guideline for. To clarify I am ONLY speaking of things that are not defined as sin but rather are a matter of opinion.

If no good has directly come of something then it’s probably fairly safe to say it is better to avoid it. IF good has commonly come of it however then perhaps it becomes more a matter of conscious. If your conscious condemns YOU then for YOU it is sin. Avoid it. Plain and simple. The problem comes though when you begin to apply your personal conviction to someone else in areas like this.

Is milk right or wrong for you? Of course the answer is neither. Are you lactose intolerant? Then avoid it. Please refrain from telling me to avoid it as well. I love it and actually feel ill if I don’t get enough in a given week.

The point is; Christian Rock, Acquire the Fire etc have a stated Christian basis, slant and goal. They have positively touched many lives. Others are put off by it. I think it is very safe to say that those put off by it were put off by it for personal conviction reasons. They weren’t put off by it because either one decided to teach that Jesus was chill but Satan was just a misunderstood dude too or something equally evil. Yes, there have been parts of both communities that taught things in error. Praise God, those tend to not last. The same thing happens in good churches all over the world as well. That doesn’t make it indicative of the whole until the whole becomes that.

As for moshing. Is it wrong? Well, I will say right off I think it is foolish, stupid and childish. That said can I show you in the Bible where it is wrong? Nope. Can you show me in the Bible where it is wrong? Doubt it. I bet you can show me things that further your personal conviction to avoid it; scriptures you feel apply to it. One of the common ones would be ‘do all to the Glory of God’. I think some common sense is here; does playing scrabble glorify God? What about driving your car to work? You get the idea. I am not discounting that verse at all. Live it and breathe it, you will be blessed. I am saying understand what it means to glorify God through your life. The whole picture.

My brother left drugs and a wicked lifestyle in large because of an Acquire the Fire event. He is now studying to become a pastor. I think the biggest problem is not that we ship them off to ATF and they just get some emotional high and crash; I think they get something they need and it really does affect them. The problem is we as Christians and we in the Churches behind them fail to feed the fire started in them. To keep it burning. Like starting a bonfire; It roars up initially then starts burning out. It has to be tended to be kept going. You can’t take that much in and put that much out without fuel.

God bless all of you, have a great week and please keep my friend John in your prayers. I believe he is very close to a decision for Christ praise God!!! 8 years witnessing to him now and I am begining to very strongly see the Lord working in his life!

thanks

Seriously, though, my coworkers can hear the difference. One told me that he actually likes the contemporary Christian music that I play because it has a deeper message. He says he’s getting tired of the shallow lyrics of secular music.

Anyone can engineer a questionaire like this to forge a desired outcome. While it’s true that I’ve found myself reading Christian lyrics and wondering the same thing, how an entire Christian album can lack any reference to God, church or anything scriptural, still, there is enough of a difference that I keep going back to the Christian bookstore for my music. If the two were really the same, then what would my motivation be? If the Christian music market failed to appeal to its niche, then it would lose its customers to the secular market, which is better at that market because it’s been in that business for years. If this music industry of ours does go fully secular, then it will die, and your problem will have solved itself. We’ll go back to our hymns and organ music, and our kids will be wondering why all of our music has to be boring.

The secularization of Christian music is a real problem, but it has not really reached the point that there is no difference between secular and Christian music.