59 Comments

Music lyrics quiz: Christian or secular?


kelly-clarkson

Are you ready to take a fun little quiz to see if Christian music is distinguishable from the music of the world? Let’s see if you can tell the difference between the lyrics of songs performed by Christian musicians and that of songs performed by secular musicians.

Grab a pen and a piece of paper and number the paper 1 through 25. Then read the following 25 lyrics and see if you can distinguish between the sacred and the secular. Put a “C” next to the number if you believe the lyrics are from a Christian song, or an “S” next to the number if you believe the lyrics come from a secular song. The answers are at the bottom of this post (so don’t cheat). Each correct answer is worth 4 points (possible total of 100 points). I’d love to hear how you did. And when you’re done, don’t forget to take the three-question pop-quiz on music lyrics found here.

If you intend on taking the quiz, don’t read the comments beforehand because there are some spoilers in the comments.


All lyrics are taken from the internet–as is–grammar and spelling not corrected

Have fun!

1.

He knows just what to do
When it comes to the girls
He writes them poetry
And he picks them flowers
He knows just what to say when it come to the ladies,
Knows how to make a girl smile
How to drive a girl crazy

2.

. . . Can’t you see that He spread love for you
Shed blood for you, cry for and die for you . . .

. . . I surrender all to thee
I want the whole world to see
That you’ve always been, you’ll always be
My best friend
I love you Jesus
Thank you, forgive me for my trespasses
As I forgive those who trespass against me
Thank you

3.

Cause I know that there’s a better place
Than this place I’m livin, how far is heaven
and I just got to have some faith
and just keep on living, how far is heaven
Lord can you tell me, how far is heaven
cause I just gotta know, how far is heaven
yeah Lord, can You tell me, how far is heaven
I just gotta know how far, yeah I just gotta know how far

4.

At times the woman deep inside me
Wanders far from home,
And in my mind I live a life
That chills me to the bone.
A heart, running for arms out of reach,
But who is the stranger my longing seeks?
I don’t know.
But it scares me through and through,
cause I’ve a man at home
Who needs me to be true.

5.

It’s hard to stand
On shifting sand
It’s hard to shine
In the shadows of the night
You can’t be free
If you don’t reach for help
And you can’t love
If you don’t love yourself

6.

On my way down
I’m not ready to lay, I’m not ready to fade
I’m not ready to die
Not ready to lay, I’m not ready to fade
I’m not ready to die

I’m taken home – and you’re still here
Just clear your mind – and dry your tears
We’ll take our voices – with our hands
We’ll Make like knives – we’ll make demands

7.

Oh, wherever you are and wherever you’ve been
Now is the time to begin
So give to the needy, and pray for the grieving
Even when you don’t think that you can
‘Cause all that you do is bound to come back to you
So think of your fellow man
And make peace with God, and make peace with yourself
‘Cause in the end, there’s nobody else

Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances and let it all out
‘Cause you won’t regret it
Looking back from where you have been
‘Cause it’s not who you knew
And it’s not what you did
It’s how you live

8.

You can all call me crazy
For the things that I might say
You can laugh all you want to
I know there will come a day
When we all will come together
And learn to set aside our hate
And we can learn to love our neighbor
Just like we would love ourselves

We’ve got to come together
‘Cause in the end we can make it — alright
We’ve got to brave the weather
Through all of the storms
We’ve got to come together
‘Cause in the end we can make it — alright
We’ve got to learn to love
We’ve got to learn to love

9.

Who’s to blame for the life that tragedies claim no matter what you say it won’t
take away the pain, that I feel inside I’m tired of all the lies don’t nobody know
why it’s the blind leadin’ the blind.
Guess that’s the way that the story goes, will it ever make sense somebody’s
gotta know, there’s gotta be more to life than this, there’s got to be more to everything
I thought exists

10.

Every time I try to find you
Every road comes back around
Just another hoop to jump through
Another mile of covered ground . . . .

So lay down the sword
And put away the doctrine
Love a little more
Love a little more
Cuz everybody’s broken

11.

For the life of me I cannot remember
What made us think that we were wise and
We’d never compromise
For the life of me I cannot believe
We’d ever die for these sins
We were merely freshman

12.

I see you holding your grudges
I see you gunning them down
I see you silencing your sisters
And I love you still
And I love you (still)

13.

One, Two, Three, Four.
Without Jah, Gonna Say, What
you sayin up here.
Without Jah, But know it sucks
boy. So something’s here.
Now. Jump. Nothing to nothing.
Who say you know you say.
What you say is without jah.
Jah. A lift off, a lift off.
Jah. Jah. You know you love it
when you say Jah. Jah.
Without Jah, Without Jah.
You know it’s time for
lift off.

14.

The Son of God is in our face
Offering us eternal grace
If you want it you’ve got to believe
‘Cause being free is a state of mind
We’ll one day leave this all behind
Just put your faith in God and one day you’ll see it

15.

You got something I like about you
You seem to be a lot like me
I’ve got ticket to adventure for two
Could be your golden opportunity.
The travel agent, she set up the itinerary,
First class, you can see the moon from a window seat
An agent guided tour of the galaxy,
Tips included, if you want them come with me
Chorus: I wanna know, is there life on Pluto?
Wanna go with me?
We can go in a UFO!
I wanna know, is there life on Pluto?
Wanna go with me?
We can go in a UFO!

16.

I met a girl named Tara
And she lived in the heart of America
She like black caddies
Listened to puff daddy
Danced until her legs were sore

She worked around the corner
At a diner with the grouchy owner
And her boyfriend Shady, dates another girl named Katie
He loves her definitely maybe . . .

. . . And she’s staring at his picture hanging in her locker
She’s telling all the girls about all the things that he bought her
I saw what really happened all those times he went for water
When we were at the movie theater watching Harry Potter
He had his hands on
Every single girl he laid his eyes on
Hate to break it to you, he’s a pylon
And even when he kissed her
He was looking over, staring at her sister

17.

Thinking how it might have been
If you had never
Walked into my life
I would have been nothing
Without you where would I be

Every moment used to feel
Like living through a
Cold and starless night
But everything’s changing
Everything is feeling right . . .

. . . How could I have been so blind
When you were always here
So near to me
And there is no other
Who knows me the way
I feel you do

And you were waiting all the time
For me to come around
And finally see
All the love I was missing
There you were right beside me
Always beside me . . .

. . . You made it so easy
Your love brought out
The best in me

18.

I’ve got it all, but I feel so deprived
I go up, I come down and I’m emptier inside
Tell me what is this thing that I feel like I’m missing
And why can’t I let it go

There’s gotta be more to life…
Than chasing down every temporary high to satisfy me
Cause the more that I’m…
Trippin’ out thinkin’ there must be more to life
Well it’s life, but I’m sure… There’s gotta be more

(Than wanting more)

I’ve got the time and I’m wasting it slowly
Here in this moment I’m half-way out the door
Onto the next thing, I’m searching for something that’s missing

I’m wanting more

I’m always waiting on something other than this
Why am I feelin’ like there’s something I missed….
Always… Always…

More to life
There’s gotta be more to life (more to life)
There’s gotta be more to life (more)
More to my life

19.

Throw up your rawkfist if you´re feelin it when I
drop this. Show ‘em how we blow the spot, Let’s
make it hot, Let’s shock ‘em with the bodyrock
’til the party stops. it´s time to take it up a
notch, and keep it locked, for all the headbangers
in the parking lot. Here we come, if you´re ready
or not. No time to talk. Cause we on the clock
bringin that Uhh, Uhh, to your block. Let me show
ya where we’re comin from, it don´t stop, from
L.A. to New York. Show me what you got now!

Throw up your rawkfist if you´re feelin it when I
drop this. Uhh, Uhh, that´s the sound when the
rock hits. Oh, you never know, I might let go.
Just roll, roll. Get ready, Get set. Throw up your
rawkfist if you´re feelin it when I drop this.
Uhh, Uhh, that´s the sound when the rock hits. Oh,
you never know, I might let go. Just roll, roll.
Get ready, Get set.

20.

Hey DJ won’t ya play that song
And we’ll keep dancing till the break of dawn
Keep it live like the way it should
Ain’t nobody gett’n crazy so you know it’s all good
B-boys, fly-girls one time
Friend of yours is a friend of mine
Don’t bother stopping till this jam is through
If you been here before then you know how we do

We came to rock the party all night long
So party people won’t ya sing that song
We came to rock the party all night long
And keep it live till the break of dawn

We gotz to play what we feel
Then I can say I am real
Don’t wanna be caught mess’n around
Cuz a party ain’t a party when it gets shut down
Off the hook, with the cutz, that’s right
Feel’n loose cuz it sounds so tight
Rock da spot till the very end
Make sure that you’re there when we do it again

We came to rock the party all night long
So party people won’t ya sing that song
We came to rock the party all night long
And keep it live till the break of dawn

21.

hands up
holler back now
we don’t claim any know-how
we givin’ God all that
wherever we go, that’s
where the party’s at

wherever we go, the dumb get wise
and the crime rates drop
and the markets rise
it’s a curious thing
but it’s just our thing

22.

Time and time was spent
finding out the truth.
We believed in our undying youth.
Nothing ever more modeled after you.

Now everybody knows,
And anyone can see,
The way the story goes,
And what you did to me.
Tasted once before.
Unlock sacred doors.
Shut to our requests.
Say you did your best.
You said you were our friend.
The lies were common place.
What happened to forgiveness?
I’ll never see your face again.

Feel the burn.
Watch us burn.

23.

Draw me close to You
Never let me go
I lay it all down again
To hear You say that I’m Your friend

You are my desire
No one else will do
‘Cause nothing else could take Your place
To feel the warmth of Your embrace
Help me find the way
Bring me back to You

You’re all I want
You’re all I’ve ever needed
You’re all I want
Help me know You are near

24.

You told me not to worry About what lies ahead
So I am gonna focus on today instead
Making every moment count and counting
Every single blessing
I’m gonna set my mind on the
Here and now
This is what I want my life to be about

And this is how…

I’m gonna live for today
I’m gonna follow in Your way
I’m gonna let my little light shine
Like there’s no tomorrow
I won’t worry about the past
I know my future is intact
So I’ll choose to live my life one way
I’m gonna live for today

My oh so crazy life
It’s got me spinnin’ round & round
Hanging upside down
Takin’ one step at a time
Holding your hand all the way
And it’ll be okay

25.

I raise my hands, bow my head
I’m finding more and more truth in the words written in red
They tell me that there’s more to life than just what i can see

I can’t quote the book
The chapter or the verse
You can’t tell me it all ends
In a slow ride in a hearse
You know I’m more and more convinced
The longer that I live
Yeah, this can’t be
No, this can’t be
No, this can’t be all there is

1. Christian

MxPx – Chick Magnet

2. Secular

Puff Daddy (P-Diddy) – Best Friend

3. Christian

Salvador – How Far is Heaven?

4. Christian

Amy Grant – Faithless Heart

5. Christian

Natalie Grant – In Better Hands Now

6. Christian

Demon Hunter – Not Ready to Die

7. Christian

Point of Grace – How You Live

8. Christian

Third Day – Come Together

9. Christian

P.O.D. – Youth of the Nation

10. Christian

Nicole Nordeman – Real to Me

11. Secular

The Verve Pipe – the Freshman

12. Secular

Alanis Morisette – Still

13. Christian

P.O.D. – Without Jah, Nothin’

14. Secular

Lenny Kravitz – Believe

15. Christian

Plumb – Pluto (Hidden Track)

16. Christian

FM Static – Definitely Maybe

17. Christian

Plus One – Written on My Heart

18. Christian

Stacie Orrico – More to Life

19. Christian

Thousand Foot Krutch – Rawk Fist

20. Christian

P.O.D. – Rock the Party

21. Christian

Newsboys – Wherever we go

22. Christian

Dogwood – Feel the Burn

23. Christian

Worship song performed by churches across- Draw Me Close to You

24. Christian

Natalie Grant – Live For Today

25. Christian and Secular (Bonus – You get 4 points no matter how you answered)

Clay Crosse (and Brooks & Dunn) – I Believe

______________________________________________________________________

Also see the test: Are You Loving?

59 comments on “Music lyrics quiz: Christian or secular?

  1. Surprised me, I got 7 right out of 25. These are some scary songs coming from supposedly God fearing saints.
    Wow, they’d better check their salvation to see who is really Lord of their life-because if their music is a reflection of a relationship with Christ; according to their own words, the relationship is non-existent~

  2. I scored 32 points: only 8 out of 25, including the “bonus” points for question #25.
    Some of those “Christian” lyrics….wow!!

  3. I only got 5 out of 25 scoring a total of 20 points. So shameful that I am not a cool, hip, relevant pastor type individual.

    Maybe I should start wearing Hawaiian shirts to service. Hmmm, worked for Rick Warren. At least the bright wild colors would cover the red from being so embarrassed at not being “with it” in regards to such great “Christian” music!

    TDP

  4. I got 6 out of 25. I was surprised to find so many were “Christian” songs when they have nothing to do with Jesus or the true gospel message. That one by Amy Grant is no real surprise, but some of the others did surprise me. I haven’t been into the contemporary Christian music scene for some time now. Things sure have gone even farther down hill in the last few years. Very hard to tell the difference from the secular songs. In fact, because the one by Puff Daddy (#2) at least mentioned Jesus by name, I thought that one must be a Christian song. Dumb me!

  5. I scored 36 points. Things are getting worse in so called cm. The only clues I had was words like sacred, bow heads, God- a very generic god. These people seem like they are singing about someone they have only heard about, probably in seeker, sensitive churches, they don’t seem to know Him. I used to like Third day and Newsboys. Oh well, I must’ve matured a bit

  6. I had to double check. If number 1 is Christian, who are they singing about. He knows just what to do, when it comes to the girls etc. I really, really hope they don’t mean Jesus. If they do it is blasphemous. Does anyone know

  7. My wife and I took it together and got 16/25, or a score of 64.

    She listens to lots o music. But some of them were really, “are you serious?” type responses. sad state of Christian musical world.

  8. Number 13 is Christian? What is that song even about? Btw, it’s always good to write a Christian song with the reverent word “sucks”, isn’t it? What would Charles Wesley and Isaac Watts think of these lyrics?

  9. Well I happened to get 12 right and I don’t listen to alot of music.

  10. Dear Jude Newman:

    Song #1 by the Christian punk band MxPx is a song about a girl, not Jesus.

    So far no one but Deb Mummert and wbmoore (with his wife) has broken double digits in correct answers.

    I’m not quite sure if that’s good or bad.

    - The Pilgrim

  11. 36% God made it clear, I have no future in christian music.

  12. I got a 60. The only reason I did as well as I did is because many of the “Christian” lyrics I have read before when I was working on my posts about CCM and my CCM pdf.

    I can honestly say I haven’t heard most of these, I couldn’t bear to listen. I just read the lyrics when researching. Most of the “songs” you would never even be able to understand the words due to the so-called “music”.

    This is what our youth are listening to; no wonder we are losing them to the world.

    Berean Wife

  13. I got 64 points (16 right). Mostly because I have many of the Christian albums these come from, and I’ve got most of my 615 Christian CD’s memorized note-for-note (I love Christian music).

    Sadly, not all of the lyrics to the songs are posted in the above material, because a lot of the relevance of the songs are taken away for partial interpretation, making it much more difficult to answer them.

    While I do feel that we should be able to distinguish Godly inspired music from “Christians-who-create-music” from the “Worldly-people-who-create-music” from the unGodly music, sadly getting the answers right or wrong is not a blight on those who answer, but a sad state of the Christian market in general which put out bands who just aren’t steeped in God’s Word as deeply as they should be before getting a little bit of fame.

    Who is Satan going to attack the hardest? The people who sit at home and take internet quizzes, or the Christians who are out there trying to make a difference in the world? These Christian artists shouldn’t be frowned upon or denied. They should have our prayers to uplift them.

  14. As long as you put the magic word, “Christian” in front of it, I can listen to anything, watch anything, wear anything, do anything – I’m waiting for “Christian porn” (oh we have some of that in the music videos!)…

  15. I got a 60% or 15 right.. Yes it is sad with the Christian World.. Those so called Christian bands are just trying to say they are christian without even know who God is, or having that Relationship with Him… It’s scary to think about it.. if you know where i’m coming from.. It’s not the religion that matters or doing good deeds.. it’s actually talking to HIM.. the one who created us, to be who we’re suppose to be.. living for Him, and telling others about Jesus… Not pretending you are. And even if they say their Christian, they might not really be Christian’s . For ex. accepting Jesus as your savior usually as a young child or older. So basically they put their face in the crowd, and say “Hey i love God!”, but behind the scenes they could be cussing and drinking un responsibly.. well you get my point. just be careful with the choices you make in life.. Try to make pleasing to God… and learn from your mistakes, in the end things will work out… Quote from Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your path straight!

    They will be sorry, if they didn’t know the real way to get to heaven.. so like all this time their talking about God, and have knowledge that a God does exist, and yes they may be singing to HIm. but they really don’t know him personally.. and that’s what counts is in the heart! If you understand what i mean and where i’m coming from :)

  16. i got a 20% b cuz i stink at quizes so yea, it was a good quiz though.

  17. Sasha:

    It may be less because you stink at taking quizzes and more because Christian music lyrics are indistinguishable from secular music lyrics.

    Thanks for taking the quiz.

    - The Pilgrim

  18. Hey everyone, just read these lyrics and comments. It was interesting.

    I would respectfully submit that many of these songs by Christian artist need to be taken in the context of the song at the VERY least, typically in the context of album. I know this because I own almost every album that those songs are on and am very familiar with the context.

    That said, using words like ‘sucks’ or other words that while perhaps not morally offensive to some (perhaps they should be…) may be morally offensive to others and should be avoided least they cause a weaker christian to stumble (that is what the word ‘offend’ means just so people don’t think I am misquoting :) )

    For the record the lyrics to the POD song quoted here are incorrect. That is a commonly mixed up line however and was posted that way (incorrectly) by several lyrics sites who got it from the same place. I will double check as I have the album, but I believe the lyrics are more along the lines of “Without Jah, Jah, what you say, what you say is nothin’ With out Jah you wanna say, so say somethin’. With out Jah nothin to nothin, ‘Cause everybody says what you say is somethin’” That last line I think is what people mishear. Don’t quote me on that however as honestly, I am not much of a P.O.D. fan…I don’t fully understand the references/grammar and I don’t care for reggae rock.

    Now, there IS a line. Paul became ‘all things to all men’ but this can NEVER be used as an excuse to sin. PERIOD. I agree that unfortunately SOME Christian artists due things in their personal lives and their public lives, including music videos, that as a Christian I cannot and will not condone or defend. Does it mean they are not Christians? Before you answer that examine your own life for anything that if brought into the public light of day might undermine your testimony.

    We need to pray that the Lord strengthens those who live and sing for Him so they continue to stand firm against the temptation to compromise and that He give wisdom to those who may do things that are not conducive to a good Christian walk not because they are intentionally sinning but because they may be young in the faith and not know yet.

    Finally we need to pray for those who knowingly compromise and do things that they should not. We need to condemn the sin and pray for the sinner that God would spare them and grant them repentance and not allow their actions to do exactly what the devil wants them to do; divide other Christians and cause people to judge as a whole the Christian music scene on the basis of some.

    We who are Christians are all to aware of the poor name that has been given us in the secular eye because of the actions of the few over the centuries and even more so recently. We are always ready to condemn those actions and point out that they are not indicative of what true Christian actions are and do not reflect what Jesus has taught us. In the same breath we turn and in our hypocrisy we condemn and entire music community on the actions of a few.

    I have been a Christian since I accept and confessed Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and asked for His forgiveness and gift of salvation about 15 years ago. I am not perfect but I do my best to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling. My wife and I are both Christians. We both try to live our lives as good witnesses to the grace that God has shown us; and we are both metal heads. We listen to hymns and classical music as well and enjoy all styles but our taste tend towards bands like ‘Demon Hunter’ and ‘August Burns Red’ etc…

  19. NOT ALL CHRISTIAN BANDS HAVE THOSE LYRICS

    I would like to start out by saying that I am a 16 year old, who has been a firm believer in Jesus Christ since I was 5 years old. I have been blessed to be able to go to a prisate Christian school all of my life.

    Now that my introduction is over. I would like to say THANK YOU Jason!!!!! (btw I agree with the metal head part 100%) Many songs, both secular and Christian, have lyrics that can be taken out of context of the rest of the song and/or the rest of the album.

    I listen to bands that play on the Christian stations and some bands that do not. I personally thank God for some of the songs that are in the Christian category of music. In many canses the sound of the music (the rap, the rock, ect.) gets people around my age to look at the songs. At first they may just be listening for the sound of the instruments and/or the rhythm (which many people around my age are into), but later they may be curious about the lyrics and may look them up. Those lyrics that you saw up there may be the lyrics that the person sees, but they also look at the artist and look up more songs of theirs, which do have a great message. You see many things that seem wrong to some of you may end up being great tools used by GOD to attract more youth.

    In my life time I have seen the Christian population depleat. Other countries have actually sent missionaries HERE! Did you catch that? They are sent HERE! If we are so stuck on things that might end up helping our problem, how are going to fix the rest of the problem? While we sit here at our computers fixating on something that might end up helping (yes I know I’ve said that a lot) we have not taken a second to note Christian songs are seeping into the secular world now, and that it is a “fad” to have religion nowadays. I know you don’t hear that one much (the fad thing), but have you noticed more secular bands popping some religious things in their songs. For example, check out some country songs lately, there are many songs out there that talk about God and going to church. There have even been some secular rock songs that I’ve seen that could swing both ways. (examples= Figure .09 by Linkin Park, What I’ve Done by Linkin Park, New Divide by Linkin Park, and Tourniquet by Evanescence) I found those songs by hearing other songs from those two bands and looking up more songs, just like I said might happen with those few above.

    I;ve got a couple of challenges for you. Look at the rest of the lyrics to the songs up there, and think about iwhat some of those bands have done for God (positive, not negative). Take into consideration that not all songs have to be the generic praise song of “we praise Him, we worsip Him,” some song can be “ok lets get pumped up and read to make OUR joyful noise unto the Lord.” One example of that could be and in my opinion is #19, Rwakfist – Thousand foot Krutch. I love listening to Thousand foot Krutch (TFK). They have a lot of great songs. Rawkfist is more of a song saying, “Let’s get ready to rock this place to heaven!” It is a good show starter. Do you get what I am trying to explain? Somteimes it is good to just go completely CRAZY for GOD.

    To bring this to a close, I must say that I am sorry if I angered anyone I am only giving a new opinion from someone of the generation that has been talked about within some of the responces.

    Live, Love, and above all Worship God
    From a Fellow Follower

  20. Dear Rachel:

    I did not grow up in a Christian school. I did not grow up Christian. However, later in life (when I repeated the magic “sinner’s prayer”) I thought I was truly saved.

    Thus, enjoying the same music of the world that I had enjoyed when I was in the world was easy to do with “Christian” music. It wasn’t until years later when I actually began faithfully reading my Bible, and God actually regenerated me, that I began to be drawn away from contemporary Christian music. I could no longer follow the pied-piper beat of the lukewarm church of America.

    To use the same old excuse that Christian music draws unbelievers to the music then they read the music and somehow get saved is wrong on two fronts.

    One: It is the Gospel that saves, not music.

    Two: This very theory breaks down when one actually looks at the lyrics of these supposed Christian songs. Hence, this was the reason for the post. Is the Christian band Salvador really proclaiming the Gospel when they have to ask “how far is Heaven?” (number 3). They provide no answer (and like most Christian lyrics) provide no sound theology or Gospel message . . . but hey, the beat is kinda catchy.

    Let’s take just two examples from two popular music groups; Natalie Grant and Point of Grace.

    In Natalie Grant’s song In Better Hands Now, we find the following lyrics:
    It’s hard to stand
    On shifting sand
    It’s hard to shine
    In the shadows of the night
    You can’t be free
    If you don’t reach for help
    And you can’t love
    If you don’t love yourself

    Can you cite for me any Scriptural support for this? Any teaching or example from Scripture that one must first love himself BEFORE he can love anyone else? I know this is the philosophy of the world, but it is foreign to the Bible. In fact, the very opposite is found. Self-love is pride and it is one of the most wicked of all sins and condemned throughout Scripture. This “Christian” song is teaching a viewpoint that is antithetical to the very Christianity you claim to be a part of

    In the song How You Live by Point of Grace, we read the following lyrics:
    Take a few chances and let it all out
    ‘Cause you won’t regret it
    Looking back from where you have been
    ‘Cause it’s not who you knew
    And it’s not what you did
    It’s how you live

    This is a prime example of soul-damning error that seems to be rampant in those who claim to be Christians. If you honestly believe it’s all about “how you live” then you might as well be a Roman Catholic, Mormon, or a Muslim. The Apostle Paul taught that those bringing teachings such as this were accursed. I urge you to read Galatians and see if this popular “Christian” song lines up with holy Scripture.

    If you are truly comfortable with these and other happy-clappy, oh-so-sappy Christian music lyrics, I question the education in the Faith that you’re receiving at your school and church.

    My contention is not that these musicians are making these songs. My contention is that they’re calling it “Christian.” Don’t drizzle frosting on cow dung and call it a cinnamon roll.

    My advice to you is not to “go crazy for God” (another unbiblical concept) but do something considered “crazy.” Do something against the norm of those around you. Do something against the flow of the world and even much of the professing Church. Do something radical: Study your Bible more than you listen to your music!

    You may be surprised at the growth you experience and the realization at how much you may have been lied to by your teachers, youth pastors, and “Christian” music, because you can by no way “rock this place to Heaven.”

    Sincerely,
    - The Pilgrim

  21. Rachel~ Your enthusiasm for Christ is refreshing; however, it may be misguided. We worship God in spirit and in truth. We worship Him according to how He is revealed in Scripture. We must remember this, God is Holy, Holy, Holy. We simply cannot decide on our own what is ‘acceptable’ in His eyes. Scripture must, I repeat, Scripture must be our guide for ALL things pertaining to God.
    The line, ‘let’s get ready to rock this place to heaven’ quickly brought to mind the tower of Babel, man trying to reach God by his own wisdom/strength/ingenuity. We all know the end result of that. Again, I revert back to the holiness of God. I understand the power of music in a life, it is one of Satan’s most effective tools of deception. I must tell you this, I volunteered at a ‘Christian’ radio station not long ago. It was an eye opening experience. I went to a ‘winterjam’ concert, which had several different bands. One band opened with Lynyrd Skynyrd’s ‘Sweet Home Alabama’, which caused the crowd to go wild. That sent up a red flag. They had some youth pastor come out during intermission and spew out the gospel of easy believism. He prompted young people to come up and make a decision for Christ. {I urge you to listen to this sermon by Paul Washer, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52906154239 }
    He then came back on stage toward the end of this circus and bragged about how many ‘decisions’ were made for Christ. It brought to mind this passage from Luke 17:10, “So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.” We cannot take credit for a work of God. Another red flag went up.

    One of our staff members attended a dove awards show a couple of years back. When she returned, she was very disappointed. Some of the bands were backstage drinking alcohol and partying, just like their secular counterparts. Another red flag went up.

    I read an article on one of these ‘CCM’ bands. They were being interviewed on their musical influences. They stated they had a desire to meet Marilyn Manson, just so they could talk about music. I immediately thought of the passage not to be yoked to unbelievers {2 Cor. 6:14}.

    I often would quote scripture during my airshift, prompting listeners to repent and believe in the Gospel. After a few months, I was called into the Program Director’s office and told that what I was saying might be ‘too offensive’ to the listeners. Yes, this is a radio station that calls itself ‘Christian’. I knew my time there was up, I’d done as the Lord had willed.

    To sum it up, we must be careful not to make idols out of things, like music. Not everything that slaps a Christian label on itself is indeed Christian. I do believe Pilgrim has given you the most loving advice anyone could give, get into God’s word. I pray you will do this. May the Lord bless you as you walk through this world. May He keep your eyes fixed on the Author and Finisher of our faith…Jesus Christ.

  22. I guess I can not put it in words that make any sense, because I do get what you are saying.
    Please do not target my church and school. Believe me on this one, I learn more about God there that I can anywhere else. (I am not discounting my time with God at home. That is in a whole different category. In My personal alone time with God I always learn something new, but that is like i said ALONE time with God.) The fellowship that I get at church and school helps me understand things that I may not get on my own.

    Pilgrim, i do not agree thatit is the gospel that saves. That is unless you are also adding that Jesus is the Word, aka the Gopsel. Jesus is the the ONE who saves. By his wounds we are saved. He took on the my sin, your sin, his sin, her sin, the entire world’s sin so that we would have a chance to live with god and have the ultimate fellowship.

    Lyn, I understand what you are saying and agree. the description Christian is becoming much less Christian. (if the way i said that makes any sence) I do try my best to go through a song with a fine toothed comb before I listen to it. I send it by my parents too. One thing that We must remember is that God knows the heart of the person. He 100% understands what we have in there.

    By the way, in my previous message when I said, “Let’s rock this place to heaven,” I was in no way trying to suggest the tower of Babbel. I don’t know how to say what I was trying to say. There is this deep meaning that I was trying to say, but could not put words to it. I am severly sorry that I used the wrong verbage for what I am trying to experss. I wish I could think of a way to say it, but for some reason I can not. I hope you understand.

    I hope this cleared a few things up. :)

  23. Pilgrim and Rachael,

    Rachael, thank you for cutting so cleanly to the heart of the matter. You are very correct that as a nation our churches are suffering badly, and much of it due to inner fighting and bickering. The Word of God is very clear on many things. As Christians we dare not attempt to explain away or excuse away anything that flies in the face of what the Lord Jesus and the Word of God have taught us. That being said, as you hinted at, when we argue over things that the Word of God leaves open ended we must use caution that we aren’t being detrimental to the cause of Christ because we are so busy ‘fixating’. Amen Rachel!

    Pilgrim, Thank you for kindly and clearly presenting your case. It was refreshing to see someone openly and honestly give their side. If you will please excuse my just copying and pasting your comments I would like to respectfully discuss some of the points you brought up. I copy and paste so that it is clear what I am refering to and so that I cannot be accussed of falsly interperting your words.

    It wasn’t until years later when I actually began faithfully reading my Bible, and God actually regenerated me, that I began to be drawn away from contemporary Christian music.

    I believe that different people are fed differently and different people react to things differently. This is supported in the Bible very clearly even by the ministry of Jesus. Some people He spoke to in parables, some He spoke to plainly and some He performed miracles in front. The Gospel records numerous times ‘they saw the miracles and believed’, ‘they head his words and believed’ and ‘they saw their character and believed’. Some people drink coffee and it helps them wake up, some people drink coffee and it causes them to spaz out and still others would have a panic attack if they drank it. This doesn’t make coffee sin, it does however make it an “unprofitable” I daresay foolish choice for some. If you read Romans 14:1 – 15:1 you can clearly see the concept that Paul is giving here. I am familiar with the cultural background of what he is saying, but the principle he gives remains the same. If a certain type of music causes me spiritual trouble or to stagnate spiritually, I should probably not listen to it. If it does not affect me that way but does affect someone else that way, out of consideration and concern for their spiritual well being I should not play it around them if I know that. I should also not look down on them because they are affected that way.

    I could no longer follow the pied-piper beat of the lukewarm church of America.

    Amen brother!!!! The church has indeed grown lukewarm. From what I have read though I think we may believe different reasons are to play in this. I believe that when we excuse things the Lord blatantly calls SIN (some of the fun ones these days, sure to cause a fight are things like divorce and remarriage, homesexual acts, adultry, unclean language, being lovers of self rather then Lovers of God, unkind, bitter, back bitting etc….please, let’s not deviate to these, I state them ONLY to give context) then we grow lukewarm. When Pastors stand in the pulpit and tell everyone how much Jesus loves them and fail to ever warn them of the lifestyle they are living we grow lukewarm. When we forget to praise God from whom ALL blessings flow and instead mark things down to ‘I deserve’ we grow lukewarm and ultimately cold. And Pilgrim, PRAISE GOD that you did what you had to in order to heat up your spiritual walk. The Lord Almighty is brutal when he talks about those who are lukewarm declaring that he will spew them out of his mouth. If something causes us to become lukewarm, wether it is a certain type of music, the way a pastor preaches or even the amount of time we spend at our job we should run!

    To use the same old excuse that Christian music draws unbelievers to the music then they read the music and somehow get saved is wrong on two fronts.

    One: It is the Gospel that saves, not music.

    I agree that it is the Gospel (Rachel, I think he means gospel as I would as the Bible defines it “The Power of God for salvation” IE the finished work by Jesus Christ’s death on the cross for our sins and subsequent resurrection from the dead. I get what you meant though, but I would wager he meant Gospel in that manner) that saves not the music and I do not believe anyone disputed that so this would, with all due respect, be a null point as it is not disputed. A Pastor doesn’t save either, but he does point.

    Two: This very theory breaks down when one actually looks at the lyrics of these supposed Christian songs. Hence, this was the reason for the post. Is the Christian band Salvador really proclaiming the Gospel when they have to ask “how far is Heaven?” (number 3). They provide no answer (and like most Christian lyrics) provide no sound theology or Gospel message . . . but hey, the beat is kinda catchy.

    This argument is flawed by the very type of argument it is, an inductive argument. That would be like determining that a set of glasses do not hold water because two of the glasses you chose to examine were empty.

    Perhaps a clearer response is best taken from the gospel. Many of the psalms and proverbs can be taken on their own and if presented to a secular person would by no means incite that person to admiration and awe of the God we serve. Some would in fact seem downright contrary to what we as Christians believe! Why? Because when we take them out of the context of the whole we lose the meaning. This can be clearly seen in many proverbs and ecclesiasites.

    It would be foolishness to wholescale judge an artist on the basis of one song without FIRST putting it in the proper context. If, in proper context, the song is found to be unbiblical, then yes, reject it! Even given that case however wisdom and grace should prevail. Examine the rest of that artist’s work. It may be that they meant well and are young in the Lord and made a mistake. Like the Bible says, mercy triumphs over judgment. Does this mean we except a song that is unbiblical? By no means. It does mean we do not in our zealousneous destroy someone who is doing their best, and like us is imperfect. Like Paul the Apostle said in Cor 10:12 “Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.” and Phil 3:15 he says “Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;” In other words, be cautious, none of us have it altogether and that artist is no different. That is why we are commanded in Gal 6:1 that “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted”

    Yes, it may be that a PARTICULAR artist is indeed a wolf in sheeps clothing. There are some things that are fundamental that you do not play with. The salvation found in the Person and Blood of Jesus Christ, the fact that Jesus IS the ONLY way, that salvation is by faith etc. If they sing heresy in this, then stay away from them and pray God opens their eyes before it is too late. We are warned of people like this and told to have nothing to do with them. If you find that an artist’s lifestyle is corrupt, and there are many that are in all areas of the ministry unfortuantly, then stay clear. If you find that consistently an artist’s lyrics are ungodly and unsound, then stear clear. If though they have in innocence made a mistake or believe something in error, stear clear of that song and pray for them.

    People like to corrupt the Bible and quote ‘Judge not that you be not judged’ the context requires the rest ‘for with what measure you judge, you too will be judged.’ In other words, if we condemn an artist that claims to be a believer on the basis of a few songs that are vague or may be innacurate (not speaking of blatant heresy) then we had best watch every thing we say as we too will be judged on anything vague or innacurate we say.

    As I mentioned I do believe there are wolves in the industry. There are wolves sitting in the pews of churches, why would the Christian Rock scene be exempt? Nonetheless, we can’t look at a few lyrics and decide that as a whole the Christian Rock industry is corrupt anymore then we can look at a few pastors, or a few people sitting in church and judge all Christians on their merits.

    You quoted Natalie Grant’s song In Better Hands Now; I agree with your assesment. I would daresay, on the basis of her other work and the remainder of the lyrics themselves that she apparently either did not get what she meant across well or she believes a lie. While I would lean towards the later I would not discount her entire ministry on the basis of this song since as a whole her lyrics and lifestyle do indicate one who believes what they preach. I would pray for her that God opens her eyes to this error and shows her that you can’t love to you learn God’s love and that indeed, self love is pride and a wicked sin.

    You also qouted How You Live by Point of Grace and stated:

    This is a prime example of soul-damning error that seems to be rampant in those who claim to be Christians. If you honestly believe it’s all about “how you live” then you might as well be a Roman Catholic, Mormon, or a Muslim. The Apostle Paul taught that those bringing teachings such as this were accursed. I urge you to read Galatians and see if this popular “Christian” song lines up with holy Scripture.

    I see exactly what you mean. However with all respect I believe that your interpertation of what they mean may not line up with what they are trying to say. I MAY BE WRONG and if I am, then I would respond the same way I did with Natalie Grant’s song. However hear me out as we are called to be wise as serpents but gentle as doves. I think a wise serpent and a gentle dove would look at all sides.

    I left the lyrics so that people could see what I mean.

    Take a few chances and let it all out
    ‘Cause you won’t regret it
    Looking back from where you have been

    I believe they are basically saying “Let go of all of the things that hold you back, when you get further in your spiritual walk you won’t regret losing these things”. The Bible says the same in Phil 3:7 “But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.”

    ‘Cause it’s not who you knew

    I believe you took this as also applying to the person of Jesus Christ. That being the case I would agree and call this heresy and damning heresy at that. A wolf in sheeps clothing. HOWEVER I believe he is refering to people on earth, the pride we gain at knowing the supposed prestige.

    And it’s not what you did

    Here I believe he is excluding good works.

    It’s how you live

    I believe here he means “are you following Jesus?”. He is talking about living out your salvation through faith, I don’t believe he is talking about gaining salvation by works. At most I would take this as a variant on James 2:18 “Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

    If you are truly comfortable with these and other happy-clappy, oh-so-sappy Christian music lyrics, I question the education in the Faith that you’re receiving at your school and church.

    Most of the normally ‘Happy-clappy, oh so sappy’ Christian bands still write deep songs. After all, I believe the psalmist David would probably be top in nominations for ‘Happy -clappy, oh so sappy’ lyrics. Sometimes praise and worship takes that form. There is a time and place for everything good. An example would be the Newsboys. Happy-Clappy, oh so sappy at times and at other times quick to cut to the heart of the matter. An example, and admittedly not the best, is their song “Lost the Plot”. The lyrics are dead on and they have even more poignant songs.

    My contention is not that these musicians are making these songs. My contention is that they’re calling it “Christian.” Don’t drizzle frosting on cow dung and call it a cinnamon roll.

    That is a rather stark comparison but I agree that we should call things as they are. However this comment makes the assumption that cow dung is a valid analogy for Christian Rock. Needless to say this is an assumption I take issue with for the reasons stated above and many more. I would however like to draw your attention to the fact that many artists are clear in calling themseleves Christians and while they are clear that they want their beliefs and morals to come through in the music, the music itself is not meant to be ‘Christian Music’. Some may take offense at this but before anyone gets too worked up about this might I ask how many of you work at a Christian job? I would wager that most of you don’t but I would also hope that you are clear in calling yourself a Christian and do your best to make sure that you live your life by a moral code indicative of your Christian beliefs.

    My advice to you is not to “go crazy for God” (another unbiblical concept)

    Hmm, I suppose it depends on the definition there… I do not believe that it is inherently sinful to clap your hands, sing at the top of your lungs and jump around. I don’t condone some things as wise, but within reason I don’t see this as being a problem. The psalms are full of admonitions to make a loud and joyful noise, to clap our hands and to stomp our feet.

    but do something considered “crazy.” Do something against the norm of those around you. Do something against the flow of the world and even much of the professing Church. Do something radical: Study your Bible more than you listen to your music!

    I agree that the word of God should always be more important then our music!!!! Bear in mind that while I can listen to my Christian influenced music all day long while I work at my job and in the car while I drive too and from work. I probably wouldn’t have a job long if I tried reading the Bible the whole day and I probably wouldn’t be alive long if I tried it while driving. Some may learn well by listening to the Bible on cd; others may need to read it physically to learn. No, I am not making an excuse to put music before the Bible, just saying that ‘literally’ studying more then listening to music may not be possible, but yes, I agree with the principle you are trying to convey whole heartedly.

    You may be surprised at the growth you experience and the realization at how much you may have been lied to by your teachers, youth pastors, and “Christian” music, because you can by no way “rock this place to Heaven.”

    Indeed, the word of God always illuminates new things and shows us errors we have believed. Anyone that would claim to be a Christian and would try to keep you from the Word of God is NOT someone to be around. Yes, there may be things we find in Christian Music that the Word of God show us are wrong. We should flee these things and pray that God brings revelation of this to the artist in question, but to blanket judge Christian Rock or Christian Music or even Christian influenced music on the basis that some artists are imperfect in their knowledge of the word, or even that some artists are wolves in sheeps clothing is not Biblical. If it was there would be no church as each and every one of us would stand condemned by our own judgements.

  24. Lynn,

    Thank you for your well worded letter encouraging Christians to stay in the word and base what we believe on it. I did have some thoughts I wanted to share with you based on the things you said. To be honest, I found that I agree with most of what you said, I just had some reservations on a few things and hope you will bear with me. As I did with Pilgrims response I hope you won’t be offended if I just copy and paste your lines as I respond.

    Rachel~ Your enthusiasm for Christ is refreshing; however, it may be misguided.

    I don’t agree, it strikes me that she may be having some difficulty articulating things correctly, but I think her heart is in the right place.

    We worship God in spirit and in truth. We worship Him according to how He is revealed in Scripture. We must remember this, God is Holy, Holy, Holy. We simply cannot decide on our own what is ‘acceptable’ in His eyes. Scripture must, I repeat, Scripture must be our guide for ALL things pertaining to God.

    Absolutely and without doubt this is the truth. As you say, we have no right to second guess or alter the Word of God.

    The line, ‘let’s get ready to rock this place to heaven’ quickly brought to mind the tower of Babel, man trying to reach God by his own wisdom/strength/ingenuity. We all know the end result of that.

    With all due respect, no one of my generation or the current generation would thing this. It’s a cultural phrase / saying. All it means is lets have a blast glorifying the Lord with some music.

    Again, I revert back to the holiness of God. I understand the power of music in a life, it is one of Satan’s most effective tools of deception.

    I know Satan was the chief muscician, and I am aware that music is powerful. But you seem to be alluding at what would be a rather blanket assumption here that it is always used as a tool of deception.

    I must tell you this, I volunteered at a ‘Christian’ radio station not long ago. It was an eye opening experience. I went to a ‘winterjam’ concert, which had several different bands. One band opened with Lynyrd Skynyrd’s ‘Sweet Home Alabama’, which caused the crowd to go wild. That sent up a red flag.

    I would agree that this was probably not the best song to sing at a Christian concert; but not because the crowd went wild. Going ‘wild’ is much too broad a term without definition to look at as right or wrong. Most people are probably not aware of what some of the lyrics actually mean. I doubt it was intended to be innapropriate. That said, not everyone uses the most wisdom but that doesn’t make them evil or even mean they are being malicious. I think you and I can both agree that we have both had times in our lives that we have done things, said things or acted in ways that were less then wise, and doubtless, in some cases downright foolish.

    They had some youth pastor come out during intermission and spew out the gospel of easy believism.

    A dangerous gospel indeed; one that has caused more harm then good. By the grace of God some have heard, believed and been lead to a deeper meaningful relationship with the Lord Jesus. Unfortuantly all too often, this plants a seed very shallow that may suck the ground dry while yielding no fruit.

    He prompted young people to come up and make a decision for Christ. {I urge you to listen to this sermon by Paul Washer, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp? SID=52906154239 }
    He then came back on stage toward the end of this circus and bragged about how many ‘decisions’ were made for Christ. It brought to mind this passage from Luke 17:10, “So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.” We cannot take credit for a work of God. Another red flag went up.

    Agreed again, this is all too common a problem, not only at concerts, but also in churches. The speaker used poor judgement in this and I pray the Lord have mercy on him.

    One of our staff members attended a dove awards show a couple of years back. When she returned, she was very disappointed. Some of the bands were backstage drinking alcohol and partying, just like their secular counterparts. Another red flag went up.

    Some do; not a good idea. Whether or not one argues that with moderation alcohol is okay (not giving an opinion, merely including those who argue both ways) it is UNWISE to be a Christian artist behaving this way in public. I don’t know what is meant by partying, but certainly if they went outside the bounds the Word of God sets for us then they were unequivocally in sin. As I stated before, I do not believe that this invalidates all Christian artists on the basis of a few. The artist in question should also be examined to determine if this is a lifestyle or a poor choice. As believers we need to pray for them taking heed to ourselves so that we do not fall as I noted in my response to the Pilgrim earlier. This may mean we don’t listen to their music if the influence comes through there.

    I read an article on one of these ‘CCM’ bands. They were being interviewed on their musical influences. They stated they had a desire to meet Marilyn Manson, just so they could talk about music. I immediately thought of the passage not to be yoked to unbelievers {2 Cor. 6:14}.

    Talking and being yoked are two drastically different things. Do you know the heart of these bands? Perhaps they want to find a way to begin to witness. Perhaps they want to just know more. Without knowing the heart I do not find this to be a problem. Yes, being unequally yoked is sin (and just plain unwise) that being said I didn’t hear them say “we would love to do a promotional tour for Manson” so I guess I am missing the point. There are Christian artists who sing at Ozz Fest; many people would condemn this but those same people seem to forget that Jesus himself went into what today would be the bars and redlight districts to preach to those there.

    I often would quote scripture during my airshift, prompting listeners to repent and believe in the Gospel. After a few months, I was called into the Program Director’s office and told that what I was saying might be ‘too offensive’ to the listeners. Yes, this is a radio station that calls itself ‘Christian’. I knew my time there was up, I’d done as the Lord had willed.

    It is pathetic today when a Christian would be concerned that a scripture would be ‘too offensive’ to listeners. This is what is at the core of weak Christianity and wishy washy believers. Praise the Lord that you recognized this and did what you were lead to.

    To sum it up, we must be careful not to make idols out of things, like music. Not everything that slaps a Christian label on itself is indeed Christian.

    Amen! I agree whole heartedly.

    I do believe Pilgrim has given you the most loving advice anyone could give, get into God’s word.

    While I don’t agree with his conclusion on Christian Music, I do agree whole heartedly with the admonition to get into God’s word!

    I pray you will do this. May the Lord bless you as you walk through this world. May He keep your eyes fixed on the Author and Finisher of our faith…Jesus Christ.

    Amen!

    The Lord Jesus Bless and Keep you and Pilgrim and Rachael.

  25. http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=81409169342 Good sermon on Franklin Grahams Christian Rock the river concert

  26. 60 points. You’re right, the secular music isn’t much different from the Christian stuff. Might as well go back to Beastie Boys, System Of A Down, Disturbed…all of those great classics that we shunned for this “Christian” music. What were we thinking? ;) Just kidding.

    Seriously, though, my coworkers can hear the difference. One told me that he actually likes the contemporary Christian music that I play because it has a deeper message. He says he’s getting tired of the shallow lyrics of secular music.

    Anyone can engineer a questionaire like this to forge a desired outcome. While it’s true that I’ve found myself reading Christian lyrics and wondering the same thing, how an entire Christian album can lack any reference to God, church or anything scriptural, still, there is enough of a difference that I keep going back to the Christian bookstore for my music. If the two were really the same, then what would my motivation be? If the Christian music market failed to appeal to its niche, then it would lose its customers to the secular market, which is better at that market because it’s been in that business for years. If this music industry of ours does go fully secular, then it will die, and your problem will have solved itself. We’ll go back to our hymns and organ music, and our kids will be wondering why all of our music has to be boring.

    The secularization of Christian music is a real problem, but it has not really reached the point that there is no difference between secular and Christian music.

  27. I noticed some Christian songs I knew, though I didn’t know all of them. Christian Bands I reconized: Demon Hunter, TFK, FM Static, P.O.D.
    I think the song from Demon Hunter meant that they have things on Earth GOD wants them to do before they die and go to Heaven.
    The song from TFK doesn’t mean anything, but they have a lot of great Christian songs.
    Thousand Foot Krutch is acually my favorite band. The name is supost to mean that GOD is like a crutch and when we fall down, he there to help us back up.
    P.O.D. stands for Payable On Death, which means Christ paid for our sins by dieing on the cross.

  28. Hello,
    I have decided not to let my son go to Aquire the Fire. He’s 13 years old and a Christian. The band TFK is there and after seeing bouncers in front of the stage on a youtube video I decided something didn’t add up. Their music sounds awful too not to mention the worldliness of their appearance. I can’t judge their hearts but I can say that I’ve known teens to come back from ATF and it seems they’re on an emotional high and of course their enthusiasm is short lived maybe because their flesh was fed more than their spirit.

    thanks

  29. You can judge a book by its cover and a tree by its fruit. If 2+2 doesn’t equal 4, then there’s something wrong. Keep your children away from that which does not glorify the holiness and purity of God. They are the future and the youth are being defiled at alarming rates now and unless more parents put their foot down, we won’t have a church in ten years.

  30. I would be cautious about ‘judging a book by it’s cover’. After all, man sees the outside, God sees the heart as the Bible says. Obviously a fine line must be walked in this as we are called to ‘know them by their fruit’; we are not however called to ‘judge them by the cover’.

    That being said, I know many young adults who have radically and permanently had their lives changed to the Glory of God by Acquire the Fire as well (as I mentioned before I believe) by God opening their eyes via the medium of Christian Rock music.

    The Bible teaches that a spring cannot send forth good water and bad water; and there are some obvious things we can look at and say the word of God clearly condemns this. Other things we can’t. I think what you will find though is that people will try to apply the same judgements to things or events that they would apply to people. The problem is you can’t. In all of the verses in the Bible where the analogy of a ‘tree by it’s fruit’ ‘well bringing forth bitter and sweet water’ etc the analogy is to be applied to a person’s life, not an event.

    The problem is in how people take things. As I mentioned (so know one can accuse me of ‘going light on sin’ or ‘compromising the Word of God’) there are black and white things in the Bible and there are things our conscious clearly tells us to avoid. There are still things though which we do not have a predefined black and white guideline for. To clarify I am ONLY speaking of things that are not defined as sin but rather are a matter of opinion.

    If no good has directly come of something then it’s probably fairly safe to say it is better to avoid it. IF good has commonly come of it however then perhaps it becomes more a matter of conscious. If your conscious condemns YOU then for YOU it is sin. Avoid it. Plain and simple. The problem comes though when you begin to apply your personal conviction to someone else in areas like this.

    Is milk right or wrong for you? Of course the answer is neither. Are you lactose intolerant? Then avoid it. Please refrain from telling me to avoid it as well. I love it and actually feel ill if I don’t get enough in a given week.

    The point is; Christian Rock, Acquire the Fire etc have a stated Christian basis, slant and goal. They have positively touched many lives. Others are put off by it. I think it is very safe to say that those put off by it were put off by it for personal conviction reasons. They weren’t put off by it because either one decided to teach that Jesus was chill but Satan was just a misunderstood dude too or something equally evil. Yes, there have been parts of both communities that taught things in error. Praise God, those tend to not last. The same thing happens in good churches all over the world as well. That doesn’t make it indicative of the whole until the whole becomes that.

    As for moshing. Is it wrong? Well, I will say right off I think it is foolish, stupid and childish. That said can I show you in the Bible where it is wrong? Nope. Can you show me in the Bible where it is wrong? Doubt it. I bet you can show me things that further your personal conviction to avoid it; scriptures you feel apply to it. One of the common ones would be ‘do all to the Glory of God’. I think some common sense is here; does playing scrabble glorify God? What about driving your car to work? You get the idea. I am not discounting that verse at all. Live it and breathe it, you will be blessed. I am saying understand what it means to glorify God through your life. The whole picture.

    My brother left drugs and a wicked lifestyle in large because of an Acquire the Fire event. He is now studying to become a pastor. I think the biggest problem is not that we ship them off to ATF and they just get some emotional high and crash; I think they get something they need and it really does affect them. The problem is we as Christians and we in the Churches behind them fail to feed the fire started in them. To keep it burning. Like starting a bonfire; It roars up initially then starts burning out. It has to be tended to be kept going. You can’t take that much in and put that much out without fuel.

    God bless all of you, have a great week and please keep my friend John in your prayers. I believe he is very close to a decision for Christ praise God!!! 8 years witnessing to him now and I am begining to very strongly see the Lord working in his life!

  31. Psa 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
    Psa 51:15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
    Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
    Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

    So self serving…And I think this is why we have so much of combining the things of the world with the so called things of God. So called because they really don’t know what is pleasing to God… Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

    A salvation that is based on works is of the tares, the only thing that should bring anyone to Christ is the fact that they are lost and in need of the Savior. Not entertainment!

    And when its about entertaining our flesh its not about giving praise and glory to God. Because we can’t please God in our flesh. Only in His Spirit can we be pleasing to Him.

    1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
    1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
    1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.
    1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

  32. Psa 51:14 – 17

    One of my favorite Psalms :)

    So self serving…And I think this is why we have so much of combining the things of the world with the so called things of God. So called because they really don’t know what is pleasing to God…

    I agree this is certainly a danger. Hence why we are called to be discerning. Wise as serpents yet gentle as doves.

    Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding you. To be honest I wasn’t 100% sure I followed everything you were saying. I don’t mean that disrespectfully, merely honestly.

    A salvation that is based on works is of the tares,

    And a salvation not manifested by works is dead.

    the only thing that should bring anyone to Christ is the fact that they are lost and in need of the Savior.

    Indeed and amen :) There are many poor reasons. Everyone is doing it, my parents did it etc. Many pastors try to preach fear. While I understand their motivation is to reach people and while I agree that there is a healthy amount of fear as we are indeed called to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling…I pray for those who accept Christ out of fear that they would come to know the love of God and would walk in that fullness.

    Not entertainment!

    So what you are saying is that God is not God enough to use this medium to open someones eyes?

    This shines the light on a fundamental flaw of the argument that Christian Rock is evil because it is entertainment.

    We are called to do all to the Glory of God. While I would argue that SOME (not all mind you) Christian Rock is modern day worship music I doubt I would convince you. I could tell you that there are many songs the lyrically, blatantly, give God the glory and exult His Holy Name. I can’t count how many times I have stood and sung, or sat in the car and sung these songs while my heart weeps at just how much God has done for me and at the majesty of the Love He has shown me through His Son Jesus. I wasn’t on an emotional ‘high’ I was broken before God and just awestruck at His love for me and at how short I fall of His standards and the Grace He gives me to press forward, put those things behind me and continue to walk out my faith as the flesh is daily put to death and slowly starves as God’s word and presence continues to fill me.

    I could tell you all of that and I would be telling the truth. But we can safely disagree on that if need be as it doesn’t change what I would like to respectfully propose.

    Let’s agree that rock music is entertainment. So we have Christians out there playing rock music. These people are called to glorify Christ in all they do. So they chose to sing about the Lord and what He has done in their lives. They chose to reach out to people and point them towards the Lord by their lyrics. So let’s say it is just entertainment. Then I would ask you; If they are ‘entertaining’ in this way and are not indulging in evil then are they not living out the very idea of ‘doing all to the glory of God’? If someone’s sees how they live their life, or hears the words they say and believes, then is that person’s faith any less real for the medium God prepared their heart to be receptive to?

    Tell me; how would you play a game of scrabble to the Glory of God in the way in which you are defining that term? Would you say ‘thank you Jesus’ every time you got a word? Would you only spell out words that directly glorified God and avoid words like ‘car’ or ‘house’? Of course not. That would be misunderstanding the very idea of what is being said. In ALL that you do, in your life, your overall, your day to day walk, and yes in the details, DO ALL TO THE GLORY OF GOD! :) :) :) Remember though, sometimes in the details, doing something to the Glory of God is about receiving it with thanksgiving because there is no inherent way that it itself ‘Glorifies God’. It’s your heart attitude more then the action – NOT REFERRING TO SIN. For this same reason if we do something good for the wrong reason that is no less then sin. It works both ways….something I think we would both agree that too many people try to gloss over.

    Legalism is a dangerous thing. Paul warned about this many times. At one point while speaking on it he says: “These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body., but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh” – Col. 2:23

    I imagine this is the ‘ah ha’ point where people will try to tell me that this is merely about ‘entertaining the flesh’. The Bible is clear on what indulgence of the flesh is. Too many Christians try to define ‘fleshly things’ as anything not inherently ‘spiritual’. They are missing the point again and once more falling into legalism. The works of the flesh are clearly spelled out in the Bible. Avoid those things. The Bible tackles the idea of things that are not spiritual per-say but are not evil. It tells us those things are lawful. They just may not be beneficial. Won’t hurt us to do, but in all things like that, moderation. Don’t starve yourself because you never get into the meat of the Word.

    Now please bear in mind that while we apparently disagree on whether or not there can be a positive spiritual feeding through Christian Rock music, I still always tell people that their first and foremost source of spiritual food should be the word of God and their time in prayer with their time together with other believers following a close second. I believe that is clearly spelled out in the Word of God.

    And when its about entertaining our flesh its not about giving praise and glory to God.

    If for you it is all about the flesh, yep, probably should avoid it. Now, I do think as stated, you can stand and praise the Lord at the top of your lungs and if you are only doing it to look good in Church then not only are you not glorifying God but you are also sinning. In the same vein I can polish my shoes and in my heart be thankful for those shoes and for the wedding I am wearing them to and I did that to the Glory of God. Same with the music. Same with the scrabble :)

    Because we can’t please God in our flesh. Only in His Spirit can we be pleasing to Him.

    Yes, and that is why the Bible says before we were saved all our ‘good works’ were just filthy rags. Now, as Christians, saved by the Power of God we can please Him and Glorify Him in all things. If some chose to even use their musical talents to reach out to people, then Praise the Lord! While people sit and debate over whether this music is purely entertainment or if it can have a redeeming spiritual value these musicians are out there reaching the lost and many many of them are getting saved. Their fruit has born out. I come from that scene. I know it. Yes, some falls on shallow or thorny ground. So do the words of many preachers. Is there still fruit? Yes. Is the gospel being preached in the lyrics? Yes. Do the musicians openly give God the glory for their musical abilities? Yes.

    I would say their fruit is born out.

    1Jo 2:15-18

    Amen :) And allow me to say, if you allow Christian Rock to be more important to you then the Lord, your walk with Him or allow it to become an idol, then it has become sin to you. Repent. If you can’t seem to change that, then stay away from it. The same goes for anything, even leading a Bible study etc.

  33. Psa 4:1 To the chief Musician on Neginoth, A Psalm of David. Hear me when I call, O God of my righteousness: thou hast enlarged me when I was in distress; have mercy upon me, and hear my prayer.
    Psa 4:2 O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.
    Psa 4:3 But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.
    Psa 4:4 Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
    Psa 4:5 Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.
    Psa 4:6 There be many that say, Who will show us any good? LORD, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us.
    Psa 4:7 Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and their wine increased.
    Psa 4:8 I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, LORD, only makest me dwell in safety. .

  34. Can’t argue with the Bible…bless your efforts Jonathan.

  35. I would like to follow up on what you are both saying (Jonathan & Jason.)
    People are saved by the grace of God through the hearing of the Word of God. I know you both agree. We agree on many things.
    I can say that God can work at ATF and I am sure the people that are putting it together think they are doing a good thing. I can’t judge them. I know that they interview all of the musicians to see where they are coming from. It’s probably not easy.
    The problem is as a Christian and a musician myself I know that we are called to a higher calling. Young people are treated like they are all of the same mind. It’s not true. Many of them are looking for something higher, better than what they see in the world.Too much foolisness and nonsense going on. I wouldn’t doubt that a lot of the hype you is here is just that and the young people may think what’s the big deal about all of this entertainment?? It’s all shallow and worthless.
    God is Holy. He doesn’t need our thoughts and ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. His ways are not our ways. For as the heaven is higher than the earth so are His ways higher than our ways.
    I say call the young people to come up higher.
    Amen

  36. So tell me just how much should we allow from the world into the Gospel of Christ and where does it stop for entertainment? I know Their not going to play this in some red brick buildings, but some where I bet they do…remember a little leaven leavens the whole lump…

    The movie ” Corpus Christi ” is due to be released this June to August. A disgusting film set to appear in America later this year depicts Jesus and his disciples as homosexuals! As a play, this has already been in theatres for a while. It’s called ” Corpus Christi ” which means “The Body of Christ”.

  37. Jonathan,

    That is very disturbing! As a Christian I am glad you mentioned this evil movie. I will be keeping my eyes open and warning my friends about this.

    Something like this is unequivocally evil and against the Bible. There is no room as far as Christians are concerned in this for ‘entertainment’. The Bible calls it sin point blank. It is not opinion, someone’s personal feelings or anything like that. So I would have to say that it is definitely a completely different thing then Christian Rock or anything like that.

    Once again, I pray that these people repent before it is too late.

    Joe,

    I agree, we are absolutely called to a higher calling. I would however caution against dismissing an entire avenue with which to witness for the sake of some. I agree that there are those that get into too much foolishness and a compromised lifestyle. There are just as many in the churches including elders, deacons and pastors. None of us are perfect. We shouldn’t forget the grace we are given, or as the Bible says ‘so quickly forget where we came from and that at one time we were that way’. For some of us perhaps we are still maturing from that point. All of us are at different places in our walk and I pray for those especially in the spotlight that the Grace of God would empower them to walk a walk worthy of the calling. With this in mind we should also not excuse sin when the Bible has clearly defined it as such.

    Jonathan and Joe… on that same topic as they tie together…

    I know an artist who called herself Christian has recently announced that she is a homosexual. While sin is sin and her sin is no less sin then someone who lies all the time, she is choosing to live a lifestyle in opposition to the Word of God. We cannot stand by and condone that, and as this is not a ‘oh they slipped and said a cus word’ thing, or some onetime out of the ordinary thing, this is a lifestyle, this is walking in sin, as Christians this person needs to be told they need to repent and turn from this, and publicly, or (and possibly anyways) they need to step down. Certainly Christian stores etc should not be carrying her music any longer, and in fact most are refusing to and have pulled them from the shelves and have been outspoken in denouncing her life style and calling her to repent.

    We are called to a higher lifestyle. Sometimes it is obvious what that is. We still need to be careful not to confuse our personal preferences, tastes, bias or opinion to determine what is a higher lifestyle for the very reason stated. We aren’t God. Our thoughts are indeed not His. Ultimately God WILL judge that and I don’t doubt that there will be much stubble that burns; both in the ‘Christian entertainment’ realm and in the Churches. In what we know, we MUST however strive to live to that higher calling. Let God judge the rest.

    As the Bible says, if it is not of God it will come to nothing and prove itself false by that. Meanwhile, let’s be wise as serpents, Gentle as doves and let’s not pit the house against itself but do let us be bold to call out sin where the Bible has already judged it for us. As you know, I feel this topic is one where we DO have guidelines that MUST be followed if anything is to be called ‘of God’. Our personal opinion on whether something by Beethoven is more of God then something by Demon Hunter may not be the best measuring stick. Things you would doubtless except I tend to doubt your great great grandparents would have accepted. The very hymns we sing were once the subject of this same controversy. There are clear guidelines. Division comes when we start drawing our own in. Failure comes when we compromise the ones God has clearly drawn.

    I think it is safe to say I will be joining you both in praying that God protects people from deception…and corruption… from this evil movie/play.

    God bless you both and thanks for the great discussion!

  38. No gray area there just the devil at work.

  39. Jason, and anyone else, you have to do the things you do before God with your own convictions telling what is right, I can’t make decisions for you, Just telling you how I feel. And in the end God will be the Judge, and your right Jason about some peoples works will burn up. That’s a picture of most my life. I have lived most my life to sin and selfish desire. There is nothing I can do to make up for it, nothing that can be said! I’ve heard rock and roll and other music, OK I listen to it once and a while on my bike with ipod to get me working out and take my mind off the boredom of it, It’s secular and not all of it is bad, not good but not bad either but would rather not hear it in worship services . The truth is I have really never been able to hear it good enough to make out the words to know the difference. I have been hit in the head so many times I can’t think very good either much less remember what I was just been told. That’s why I like this, I can take my time!
    But for me knowing the great sacrifice that God has made on behalf of lost sinners and me being one of the worse of many and having tasted of his Mercy’s, I want nothing but to know God and His Son.
    Oh the things I have seen, oceans of the world so deep and blue and clear, you could see fish a hundred feet down, Whales all around the boat. I’ve seen mountains that started in the water and reach all most strait up into the sky, places so wild hardly a man has tread if at all,. I’ve seen the stars from a sailboat in the middle of the oceans that were so clear and bright and stars so thick you could hardly pic out the constellations, I’ve seen the northern lights in the wilderness covered in snow that would reflect the iridescent colors shining it all around and light it up so beautiful that you would think it wasn’t night but some thing else other than day. And some of the smallest of things like brook trout spawning in a clear creek covered by trees with the sun just shinning through lighting them up reflecting their colors so that they looked like feathers of some tropical bird dancing in the water and on and on. These things are all around us and are Gods handy work, But there is nothing, no not anything in this world or the next to come that will compare to God and His Son and knowing Him alone. And His mercy that calls one to repent and tasting of that salvation, no music no star, no ocean can even compare!
    To be able to set and contemplate the riches of his mercy and the glory of his son and reading his word seeing all that he has done with and for his Children. And to know that in theses last days has things start come about as he said they would in His word, in them He has told us of things in the past and the things to come. Oh glory to his name he is worthy to be praised. Go check out Isa.42

  40. I have a question for all of the Def Con folks. Who are some theologically sound artist?

    I find myself listening to more secular music, talk radio, and recorded sermons. I get tired of trying to listen to all of the words of an artist’s songs to determine if they are sound.

  41. Shane,

    I hear you on that one. It’s of course always still good to be aware of the music and lyrical content no matter who you are listening to. Having bands you trust though certainly helps to keep you from having to constantly be wondering though.

    I would love to help you find some theologically sound bands to add to your list but I want to be respectful of the folks that run this board and don’t want to deviate the conversation.

    If the owner of this board is willing I am fine with him emailing you my email address if you would like to contact me directly. I also noticed that you linked your name to a blog, if this is you I would be glad to contact you that way.

    As I said though I respect that many of the folks here have different personal beliefs than I do in this area. They have been very polite, open and honest in presenting their beliefs and I wish to respond accordingly. …Not that I would be excused to do otherwise even if they hadn’t been so kind :) … Biblically I feel that I would be violating the concept of avoiding doing something in front of a brother that offends that brother merely because I disagree with them. I hope you understand where I am coming from there :)

    Of course as this is their board if they want to offer suggestions…. :)

    God Bless Shane!

    -Jason

  42. Shane:

    Tough one to answer. Musical tastes vary widely, and no matter who one likes, someone is bound to take issue with something about it. For instance, some Don Francisco songs have really drawn my focus upon the truths of Scripture. Other tunes of his don’t do much for my spirit.

    “I get tired of trying to listen to all of the words of an artist’s songs to determine if they are sound.” I can relate to that. But we really do need to do that. Because if we don’t, we go just for the tune that we like, and the “message” gets pounded into our heads through the medium, until it alters our beliefs or convictions incrementally.

    May the Lord guide and direct you to listen to music that is beneficial to your spirit.

  43. thanks for the suggestions guys. If anyone has any they would like to suggest they can do so here: http://new5pointer.blogspot.com/2010/05/are-there-any-sound-christian-music.html

  44. Hmm, guess I need to make an account so I can respond there :) I’m at work at the moment, so it may be a day or so before I get a chance to do so.

  45. Sound theologically artist or other wise I have a question, How much are they charging for their spiritualy inspired songs?

  46. I know a LOT of Christian artists that I have talked to PERSONALLY :) that point blank told me to feel free to copy their albums to give to my friends etc as they weren’t there to make a killing, they were, in their own words ‘there to serve.’

    That being said, I imagine they charge what the recording industry sets the prices at and I imagine it covers their equipment, time etc. Bear in mind that while some of these folks have other jobs they use to support themselves with, for many of them this is also their occupation.

    I dare say the Lord might raise an eyebrow at us just taking what these artists work so hard to produce and then telling them ‘go in peace, be blessed and feed’ and failing to ‘feed’ them.

    As mentioned, I have been friends with and known enough Christian artists to know that while some may do well, the VAST majority don’t exactly live in the lap of luxury… by any stretch of imagination.

    My grandfather is a pastor. He works a side job to support himself. Despite this I am sure there are those that would ask how much he is charging for his spiritually inspired sermons.

    None of them are charging an outrageous amount. If they do well, then Praise the Lord! He is blessing them; I pray that they will not fall prey to greed but will pour His blessings back out on others.

  47. To clarify my last sentence that is ‘if they happen to have a lot of sales, then Praise the Lord!’…. realized after that it almost sounded like I was saying ‘but if they do charge an outrageous amount’….

  48. well I guess we’ve come along way since;Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
    Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
    Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

    I like that song “poor wayfarring strnger”

  49. Jonathan,

    If I’m reading your comment right then I guess I am curious as to how you are also following this command? I’m not trying to rude and sarcastic, but you have a job I assume? Do you own a house or car etc? The legalistic mindset is to see that verse and use it as an absolute to live by. Ironically enough the very people that are saying that are sitting in their homes, having just driven back from their jobs and have their soda sitting on their table next to their computer that they are busy passing judgment on people from. That verse was not a command; it was a record of what they chose to do. Ananias and Sapphira were killed because they lied to the Holy Spirit in an attempt to emulate what was happening in order to look pious. They didn’t die because they failed to sell all they owned and distribute it to the poor, rather they died because they lied about what they had done.

    We ARE called to help those around us. Bless those who curse us. Pray for those who despitfully use us. Give asking nothing in return and lend to a brother in need without charging usury. You are absolutely correct that there is a calling to be charitable in everything from our belongings in helping the poor to our attitude and grace in helping the weak – be that spiritually or physically.

    I do COMPLETELY agree with you that there is often a lot of charity missing. Unfortunately this is often missing in our own lives as well and I doubt either you or I are exempt from this statement. I think we would do well to live what we are called in freedom not in legalistic endeavors that merely serve to bring us back into bondage. “But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?” Gal 4:8-11.

    I am NOT suggesting that giving to the needy is putting yourself in bondage. I am suggesting that there is a point at which charity becomes nothing more then the product of legalistic actions and kindness nothing more then a mask behind which to hide a hollow heart. ‘Then he added, “Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”‘ Mat 9:13

    There is a balance. If God calls you to give something up and give it or the proceeds to the poor. DO IT!!! Don’t sit and hide behind ‘grace’ of ‘freedom’ when God calls you to move. Likewise do not condemn someone else because they have not been called to do what you may have been.

    Jonathan, I know this was a lengthy reply to your comment…as we’ve seen I can be lengthy…. but please don’t misunderstand me; I am not saying you are wrong, just cautioning that the way I read it made it sound perhaps like it was insinuating a level of legalistic judgment that may not have been your intent. I wasn’t certain but felt it pertinent enough to the discussion to comment on the idea I believe the Bible is trying to get across to us in relaying this piece of history. As I said, this may not have been your intent at all, and I ask your forgiveness if I have misinterpreted what you said. You are indeed correct that it is a very important thing.

    God Bless!
    -Jason

  50. Jason there are those who been making a bundle off the Christian entrainment market for a long time now. I don’t think it was meant to be that way. The Church has been considered a base for capital gains for to long by those who show that their heart is really not on ministering to the Saints but filling their pockets. maybe I’m just one that really can’t see how any of it, the Christian music industry really gives glory to God when He said freely you have received freely give. I think people in America have made a three ring circus out of the things of God and it turns my stomach.
    And if you must know I’m homeless, but am thankful for my small travel trailer, some people don’t even have a box to live in. And my joints hurt from my head to my toes. And what little money I get from SSD isn’t going very far these days and I am taking care of my younger brother on top of that. And if you didn’t get it Act 4:33 was about grace and the love of the brethern and supplying for their needs not entertainment!
    And the enter-net I use isan’t mine. I’m ready for a rest and a place to escape, but there is to much work to be done telling other of the grace that is found in Christ Jesus to be worrying about being entertained. Some can’t understand that there is a war going on for men’s souls as some would say, instead of worrying about the money pit that so many have worked for in error. There’s to been to much entertainment going on in the so called Church for to long, its not about entertaining, wake up people. This country has for to long been worrying about where their next fix of mind erasing is going to come from. I haven’t heard a modern song that takes away from man and gives glory to God. Because most the songs people listen to makes them feel good about them selves and doesn’t break their heart because of the sin of self righteousness that is so prevalent in this country, no the world. And thats what its really about isn’t, making people feel good…That’s why people give so much money for it.
    It’s not about making music that gives glory to God but what makes a jiggle in ones pocket. If you make music for a living then good for you go for it with gusto, the workers worth his wages but don’t call it spiritual, call it what it is, entertainment.
    When they start putting a price on the things of God then its no longer has anything to do with grace does it?

  51. Jonathan,

    I think amusingly enough we may both be in agreement but saying things different ways :)

    I absolutely agree with you that there are those who are / or have been making a killing of the ‘Christian industry’ for years. It is disgusting and they will be judged rather severely. Jesus himself went through the temple with a whip driving out those who were doing the same type of thing. I tend to doubt he will deal anymore kindly with those who have merely modernized it.

    I do understand that Acts 4:33 was about grace and love of the brethren and supplying for their needs, not entertainment. I was merely cautioning against those who would take this to a legalistic extreme and end up condemning everyone around them and ultimately themselves in the process. I cautioned against it because I have seen it tear people apart.

    I watched so many well to do people who had been blessed with nice homes, cars and even boats condemning people like my family because while they gave 200 or 300 hundred dollars to the offering plate we were all excited because we had milk that week for me and my 5 younger siblings and had still managed to save $16.75 cents to put in the plate. The snide looks and comments about ‘monetary priorities’ from these brothers and sisters in the Lord hurt. I don’t say that to try to be dramatic, merely explaining where I come from and that, while I may not be in your position at this time in my life, I do understand.

    In the same vein I see so many throw a general blanket statement at artist who chose to use their talents to try to glorify God and accuse them all of being greedy money grubbers. As I mentioned in my first response your statement sounded as if you were insinuating that; I did however I hope make clear that I was acknowledging that I wasn’t certain that was the intent and of course tone is difficult to guess in written things. Someone else may have ‘heard’ it entirely differently :)

    I do want to say Jonathan that I agree wholeheartedly with you that there is a war going on for our souls and those who would sit and in the name of ‘Christian Love’ fail to remind us of the need to flee sin and repent when we fail are doing a huge disservice to the body of Christ. Praise the Lord brother that you see this as well! It breaks my heart to see so many sit in churches and hear of nothing but the Love of God. We need the Love of God; we need it desperately, but we also need change. The scripture is indeed there for strength, exhortation and encouragement; and it is equally there for teaching, reproof, correction and training in righteousness! Woe to those who would take away from those, especially those in leadership. They do so to the detriment of souls and they will be judged for that.

    I think that the Christian music industry has within itself those who follow all of the scriptures, those who try and likewise those who are wolves in sheeps clothing. I think the same of the church. Likewise I think an artist can have a song that is purely entertainment, and while not evil or offensive could not be considered a praise and worship song. That same artist may also have a song, even on the same album, that is a praise and worship song. There is an inherent danger though in blanket judgments. We not only run the risk of condemning something that could have been a blessing, but we likewise run the risk of accepting something that may be an abomination.

    If I may share a song that has always been one of my favorites and never fails to touch my heart…. The artist is Newsboys, a Christian Rock band playing now for 20 years or so I believe. They do a lot of ‘entertainment songs’ and they equally do a lot of praise and worship and thought provoking songs. This one I believe would lyrically agree with what we are both saying. It helps to hear the sarcasm in his tones when he sings, but I think the idea is clear.

    Newsboy: “Lost the Plot” from “Take Me To Your Leader”

    would you bring me something from the fridge?
    Heard a rumor that the end is near
    but I just got comfortable here.
    sigh. Let’s be blunt.
    I’m a little distracted.
    What do you want?

    Headaches and bad faith
    are all that I’ve got.
    First I misplaced the ending
    then I lost the plot.

    Out among the free-range sheep
    while the big birds sharpen their claws.
    For a time we stuck with the shepherd
    but you wouldn’t play Santa Claus.

    sigh.Let’s be blunt.
    We’re a little distracted.
    What do you want?

    Once we could follow,
    now we cannot.
    You would not fit our image,
    so we lost the plot.

    Once we could hear you,
    now our senses are shot.
    We’ve forgotten our first love.
    We have lost the plot.

    When I saw you for the first time
    you were hanging with a thief
    And I knew my hands were dirty,
    and I dropped my gaze.
    Then you said I was forgiven
    and you welcomed me with laughter.
    I was happy ever after.
    I was counting the days
    when you’d come back again.
    we’ll be waiting for you
    When you comin’ back again?
    we’ll be ready for you
    Maybe we’ll wake up when…
    maybe we’ll wake up when
    you come back again.

    lies.Let’s be blunt.
    We’re a little unfaithful.
    What do you want?

    Are you still listening?
    `Cause we’re obviously not
    We’ve forgotten our first love
    We have lost the plot.

    And why are you still calling?
    You forgave, we forgot.
    We’re such experts at stalling
    that we’ve lost the plot.
    lost the plot

    When you come back again
    would you bring me something from the fridge?
    Heard a rumor that the end is near
    but I just got comfortable here.

  52. Sorry I used my poverty as a club. I have seen good times in the world as well but I am thankful for where I am at know more. But I think there is a time coming when it’ll be hard to do has God commands us without doing hurt to those who are of the all inclusive world religion’s and without being rounded up by the authority’s.Those of God will be more concerned with finding the truths that are in his word instead of the latest gadgit to be entertained on.

    Have you noticed how they have changed in the song Amazing Grace in some places from a retch like me to someone like me?

    Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
    Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

  53. Jonathan,

    No problem :) I understand where you are coming from. Yeah, I agree with you. It is becoming more and more difficult especially as the world redefines tolerance to mean acceptance and then demands we all ‘tolerate each others beliefs.’ When you try to tell someone that living in a ‘free’ country you may have to ‘tolerate’ their right to their own beliefs but you don’t have to think their beliefs are any less wrong or any less sin you get some strange looks.

    I think we live in a time where everyone wants to see themselves as ‘essentially good’ or ‘misunderstood’ or whatever they can say to pat themselves on the back with and stay comfortably in their sins. No one wants to look in the mirror of the Word and see the horror of what we are apart from the Grace of God.

    Thanks for the excellent reminder! God bless and have a great weekend, I am off to CT to visit some family :)

    -Jason

  54. Hello J & J and Everyone,
    Well, it’s happening again. The youth Pastor at our church (single in his early 20s)wants to take my son to see a band called Abandon with the small youth group. Some of their songs sound OK but I checked them out on youtube and I’m not sure what the young people are abandoning themselves to in the videos. If anyone would check them out and let me know what your take is on it. Whatever happened to Blessed Assurance?
    Ezekiel 22:26:they have put no difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

  55. Hi, everyone.

    Sorry about the way I’m speaking, C music is Chr-stian music, and G-d, L-rd and Father are the same thing (I live in China, can’t say much, but I hope you get my drift)

    Of course, there is some music that is classified as C Rock when it is more secular, and also some secular music that swings toward the secular side. Does this mean all music is like this? No.
    Of course, while there is some good secular music like these:

    I am not my own, for I have been made new
    Please don’t let me go, I desperately need you.
    -Meteor Shower, Owl City

    And: Lost and insecure, you found me, you found me
    Lying on the floor, surrounded, surrounded
    -You Found Me, the Fray

    There is also music like this:

    I like you a lot, lot, all we want is hot, hot
    Boys, boys, boys, we want boys in cars
    Boys, boys, boys, buy us drinks in bars
    -Boys, Boys, Boys, Lady Gaga

    Love me, hate me, say what you want about me
    But all of the boys and all of the girls are begging to if you seek Amy
    - If You Seek Amy, Britney Spears
    (Say If You Seek Amy out loud…yep)

    So, even though there is some secular music out there that is okay, there is some that could never be mistaken for C Music. C Music is meant to glorify our Father, but sometimes if the bands want to draw in secular listeners, then the bands will have to tone down the use of our Father’s name because they don’t want to listen to preaching.

    I am not trying to glorify these lyrics, I admit that I had a hard time choosing which was which, and I admit that some artists are quite lukewarm. However, there are some amazing C artists out there, that produce lyrics such as these:

    Who am I that the L-rd of all the Earth
    Would care to know my name, would care to feel my hurt
    Who am I that the bright and morning star
    Would choose to light the way to my ever wand’ring heart
    NOT because of who I am, but because of what You’ve done
    NOT because of what I’ve done, but because of who You are….
    - Who Am I, Casting Crowns (lukewarm, I think not. This is the least self-serving song ever)

    I’ll be by your side whenever you fall in the dead of night whenever you call
    And please don’t fight these hands that are holding you
    My hands are holding you
    - By Your Side, Tenth Avenue North (It’s from God’s point of view, and personally I think it’s amazing and strongly supported by Scripture)

    So, there are still some amazing songs out there in the world today.
    I do not agree with your point of view on these lyrics:

    You can’t love if you don’t love yourself

    I don’t think she was speaking about being self-serving, but much more on the viewpoint that if you don’t accept yourself the way that your Father made you then how could you love anyone else? It is speaking to those that have a low self-esteem and saying, “Hey, G-d made you, stop hating yourself!” You cannot love other people if you don’t love yourself first, because you will be too busy worrying over what they think of you and such issues. It is a high problem among teens these days.
    Also:

    It’s how you live

    is not speaking about the deeds you did. It’s saying that you should live your life for G-d and live out your faith. Lukewarm Chr-stians are the ones that don’t live out their faith, this song is telling them to STOP being lukewarm. It says in the Scriptures that G-d wants us to live out our faith rather than believe it and just stop there.

    Personally, I think that we should judge the songs on the lyrics rather than the genre that they are put into. Not all C songs are lukewarm, and not all secular songs are pure evil.

    Thank you for listening!

  56. None of them sounded like Christian to me. Even the ” Christian” ones are a poor excuse for a Christian song.

  57. No wonder I keep a hymnal on my nightstand!

  58. What a great topic!

    Well, I wish I had better news, but I only scored a 48% (12 out of 25). Doesn’t really surprise me though. I thought, going into the quiz, “I’ll bet most of the lyrics will be so confusing and laced with double entendre, it’ll be hard to tell ‘em apart.” Was I ever correct there!

    It’s truly disconcerting that there’s such syncretism in evangelical Christianity today, and it’s not just with the music either. By the way, I’d never heard of any of the songs on the list. Not one. Guess that’s why I’m much more comfortable listening to Christian talk/news radio, while I drive or perhaps some Classical music on occasion.

    It’s been said that the two most important books to the Christian are his Bible, and right alongside that would be a good quality hymnal. One which I highly recommend is The Trinity Hymnal (Baptist edition).

    Todd
    Texas

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