DefCon has chronicled Ravi Zacharias’ downfall beginning with his first public compromise when he accepted an invitation to speak at the LDS temple in Salt Lake City but failed to make any distinction between the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and the demonically inspired false Christ of Mormonism. See Ravi Zacharias fails to preach the Gospel to the Mormons.
We then examined his further compromise in Ravi’s Descent where he accepted the condition to not pray in Jesus’ name at the National Day of Prayer coordinated by NDP chairwoman Shirley Dobson, wife of James Dobson of Focus on the Family which recently promoted the cult of Mormonism. Beginning to see the big picture yet?
Then we examined Ravi’s Crash and Burn as he not only accepted an invitation to speak at rank heretic Robert Schuller’s New Age ReThink conference, but that Ravi Zacharias also spoke favorably of Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen, calling him “one of the greatest saints in recent memory.”
Now Slice of Laodicea and Apprising Ministries are reporting that not only will Ravi Zacharias not apologize or even back away from his endorsement of Henri Nouwen, but his ministry is defending his position. You can read the following letter from Ravi Zacharias Ministries in defense of Ravi’s endorsement of Nouwen by clicking here (PDF).
One of the most shocking parts of this letter written by Margaret Manning was her justification of Ravi’s compromise via the following statement:
“ . . . if it weren’t for the Catholic church you and I would not be here–nor would Christianity.”
Ravi Zacharias has become one of a long line of “public figure” Christians to compromise a little here and a little there until full blown apostasy is reached. What next Ravi, what next?
“Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God’s house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God.”
Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen
Sabbatical Journey
Page 51, 1998 Hardcover Edition
Pilgrim
thejunglemissionary
Bill
fourpointer
Chris Hohnholz
Say it ain’t so. How our Father’s heart must break. Heaven help us all…
About two years ago my search for truth was coming to its end. Unbeknownst to me, I was within 6 months of true repentance, and calling on the Lord Jesus Christ to be my Saviour. Salvation was near at hand! During those vital and delicate months, I had come across RZIM online, and began taking in one “Let My People Think” after another. The Lord Jesus used Ravi in a mighty way, and my agnostic front was finally cracked. Ravi’s ministry was like a battering ram on those old iron doors that had held up against God for as long as I could remember. Then, the knowledge of the Truth of God’s Word that began flooding in, praise God! I’d have to say that of all the messengers that came flooding my way when I began to seek the Lord, Ravi was most prominent. Thereafter, it would be the man who is the pastor of our Church to this day…
I have to pray for this dear saint today. I am saddened by this worldly pragmatism that has seeped into the cracks that must have been hidden near the bottom of Ravi’s foundation. I pray for his repentance. His turning away from all of this ungodly compromising.
Oh my… I had no idea.
This is indeed a sad time!
Thanks for posting this. It seems like every ministry that grows large ends up having its loins not girded up, and blowing every which way with the ever changing winds of false doctrine.
It is so sad to see what seem to be very solid Christians drifting off into apostasy due to an unhealthy attraction for emotionalism or some emotional therapeutic ‘fix’ that makes them FEEL more holy, while despising the true power of God unto salvation (and also unto sanctification!), the plain old offensive Gospel, the plain old written Word of God, rightly handled.
I love Ravi and am praying for him. Hope he opens his eyes…
____________________________________________________________
I asked my ten year old daughter to listen to the quote below by Nouwen, and see what she thought. I got to “whether they know Jesus or not” and she said, “uhhhh, nope.” She didn’t let me finish reading it. She said she heard the part about all human beings and started to think, “huh, what?”
She also just said, “a lot of religions come from something they read in the Bible but they twist it somehow.” True, sad but true.
____________________________________________________________
My eight year old son said “Jesus said, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me.’”
That says it all.
The saddest part of this all is how Zacharias is such an “Evangelical Untouchable” that people won’t even investigate this for themselves. They simply join the chorus of “Ken-bashers” with their bogus cry of my taking this out of context.
But the doumentation is there and there’s no way around it; Ravi’s defending an apostate humanist who’s in Hell. Nouwen went to Hell because he rejected the genuine Gospel of Jesus Christ, and worse, he shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in men’s faces.
Are his remarks incorrect? Yes, it would appear so. I haven’t researched it fully myself, but it would seem that if he made the remarks attributed to him, they would be incorrect. I’d have to look at the context, the particular questions, etc…
That being said, if everything that has been posted above is true, let’s not be like those who kick their wounded when they’re down, for others to see how we can so easily turn. If this is indeed true, we need to sincerely PRAY for RZ, and be willing to approach him in love, and with a genuine concern, especially given the tremendous reach he has in the Christian community. I don’t know how best to do that, perhaps a letter or a call, but I don’t know what he personally hears or responds to. I’m not saying anyone here has done anything inappropriate, just reminding us that our focus needs to be on helping him, rather than ridiculing his choices.
Dear Brad:
Thank you for your response.
You are correct in Christians not abandoning each other. However, there comes a time when we are to separate ourselves from heretics, false teachers, wolves, and others who would drag us into compromise and shipwreck our faith. This is done for the sake and purity of the Gospel (and the preservation of our souls). This does not mean that we can’t pray for them, but we need to be separate from them, otherwise we risk lending credibility to them in the eyes of the world.
A letter was sent to RZM and RZM’s response was what it available for you to read on the link above (PDF) in the original post. Or just click here.
RZM is defending RZ’s endorsement of a Roman Catholic mystic. And there has been no known apology or change of heart expressed by RZM regarding his mixing light with darkness at the LDS temple and his refusal to pray in Jesus’ name at the NDP.
It is a sad time to see so many high profile Christians compromise and turn form the faith in many forms, but this is not to be unexpected. The Bible warned us this would happen.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
At this time I’m not at liberty to discuss it further but RZIM has again defended these statements and show zero indication they will change their position.
Instead, what I see is more evading the actual issue of definded a Roman Catholic mystic as a great saint and more equivocation concerning what Contemplative/Centering Prayer is.
The point being, RZIM is instructing e.g. me that I am in error and considers their opinion as expressed in that PDF letter, as well as what I’ve subsequently seen, correct.
Can we please stop the “if everything that has been posted above is true”? There’s an actual pdf copy at Slice of Laodicea stating EXACTLY the same thing as I quote in my articles.
“The discernment ministries take everything out of context” whine has grown very old.
And I might add, Ken, that those who think RZ’s endorsement of the Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen was “taken out of context,” may want to view the video for themselves that you’ve supplied in this link.
Stay the course & never compromise,
- The Pilgrim
I saw Ravi speak a very non offensive message in a church building in New Jersey last year. This “church” was your typical modern gospel “Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” message. Once again he had a wonderful opportunity to preach the full gospel to many decieved people. Instead he chose not to.
Afterwards he hung around in the foyer as people queued to chat to him. I noticed he had 2 bodyguards nearby which made me wonder what on earth a man of God would need with bodyguards. I know Benny Hinn has them, but Does RC Sproul have them ?…John Macarthur ?..James White ?
It will be a sad day when Todd Freil is calling out Ravi Zacharias on wretched TV for his apostacy …But I honestly believe that is where all this is heading.
-dale
Ken/Pilgrim,
I’m all about not compromising the faith. The reason I said “if the above is true”, is b/c I hadn’t taken the time (b/c I didn’t have it) to research it fully, before making a judgment. I would hope you would not fault me, or anyone, for being cautious about what they say before having fully investigated it for themselves.
That being said, please do still continue to pray for RZ. And do still continue to approach him, in love, to reconcile a brother. Just be careful the manner in which you do it. Make sure you’re not SO bent on separation, that you forget WHY.
“Make sure you’re not SO bent on separation, that you forget WHY.”
One might also say: Make sure you’re not SO bent on inclusion and unity, that you forget WHY.
Ken, brother, you’re missing the point. As a hothead myself, I know how easy it is. I’ve been reminded by a few people whom I greatly respect that it’s OK to be set in your beliefs, but it’s also absolutely crucial that we make sure we conduct ourselves in a manner that the Bible would have us.
I’m not bent on inclusion. Do you see me saying “we need to accept RZ, regardless of what he says, and just know that we all love God?” No, you don’t. I’m not saying it’s not OK to say that what he’s said and advocated is in error – it is. What I’m saying is be careful of the manner in which you separate yourself.
Given how dead set you seem on being sure of separation, it never hurts to be reminded that we also need to work on reconciling the brother, if at all possible, as well. Just remember that, Ken.
I agree with Brad.
Ummmm…..yeah.
Talk about a bunch of people so quick to jump on the hotbed of gossip.
One question: What’s Ravi’s response to all of this?
Get a grip, people, please.
Dear MCToneDef:
Perhaps you may want to review the original post again and click on the PDF link which contains RZM’s official defense on behalf of RZ.
And if that’s not sufficient for you, you can hop on over to Apprising.org where Pastor Ken Silva has been delving into this matter much deeper.
It is a sad day when the sheep ignore the compromise (and even heresy) of their beloved leaders (also known as idolatry). You do no service to yourself, other Christians, the furtherance of the true Gospel, nor the person who is in error by excusing their erorr and attacking those who dare to address the issues.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
Again, Pilgrim, more harshness from you.
As I’ve said before, it’s OK to be separate, but be careful HOW you do it, for you may alienate other Christians in the process.
It could be that MCToneDef is just wanting to be sure of what you have said on here, before making a comment. Understandable, as we certainly wouldn’t want to say this happened if it didn’t. It could be that he (or she) didn’t check the links you had given in the original post. Yet, you assume that he (or she) is “excusing their error and attacking those who dare to address the issues”, when it seems that the person may just be being cautious before commenting, which is actually a pretty good idea.
I’ve seen a lot of what you’ve written, Pilgrim, on other blogs and on DefCon, and agree with most of it. But on this one, I really disagree with you. Not b/c I think you’re wrong about RZ, but b/c the methods you’re using, and the tone you’re taking, isn’t helpful in illustrating the problem, and is causing people to not listen to you as much, rather than really take heed and support what you’re saying. As I’ve said before, both you and Ken need to be careful of that.
Ken also has to be careful of his “Ken-Bashers’ mentality. I’ve noticed that sometimes he lapses into a ‘everyone’s out to get me’ state of mind, which makes communication difficult.
If Ravi has indeed done this, he should repent. But I wonder if an exhortation(and prayer to change his heart) to repent would be better than what’s going on here.
Joshua,
“I’ve noticed that sometimes he [Ken] lapses into a ‘everyone’s out to get me’ state of mind, which makes communication difficult.”
Little judmental wouldn’t you say? How do you know this is how I feel? Answer: You don’t. Particularly because I don’t feel that way at all as anyone who actually knows me is aware of.
“If Ravi has indeed done this?” So now we’re making this up? Before pontificating on what I ought to do, did you bother to check out the source links for yourself?
Friend, there’s a video of Ravi calling Henri Nouwen, an apostate (at best) universalist Roman Catholic mystic, “One of the greatest saints in recent memory.” I’m guessing the video doesn’t lie, even if you wish it did.
“But I wonder if an exhortation(and prayer to change his heart) to repent would be better than what’s going on here.”
1) How do you know what any of us are praying? Oops, again, you don’t. 2) the Bible commands us to also correct and rebuke (see-2 Timothy 4:2) in addition to praying. And 3) there is also attempted dialogue behind the scene.
Pilgrim,
I can’t see at all where you were harsh. In fact, it looked like sound, friendly advice not to be so taken with these “stars” of evangelicalism as to be uncritically accepting everything they do and say.
Ravi is flat out wrong in this and his RZIM associate writer Manning still is stanchly defending him. A friend of mine is also in dialogue with them but the feeling we both get is RZIM is just not teachable concerning this Contemplative attack on Sola Scriptura.
“Little judmental wouldn’t you say?”
No more judgmental than you’ve been to certain people, lol.
“How do you know this is how I feel? Answer: You don’t.”
Your posts on different web-blogs prove otherwise.
“So now we’re making this up?”
No, but I have a hard time trusting you due to the nature of the conflicts you’ve gotten into.
“Before pontificating on what I ought to do”
This is another reason why I think you have a “everyone’s out to get me mentality. I did not say YOU have to do this, i was making a plea to ALL involved in this dispute, not just YOU.
“I’m guessing the video doesn’t lie, even if you wish it did.”
Lol, now who’s being judgemental? I did not say we shouldn’t pray for change on Ravi’s part, nor blindly accept everything he says, nor place him above reproach. I simply don’t see this talk behind his back as being very effective.
“1) How do you know what any of us are praying? Oops, again, you don’t.”
I have not seen you nor the Pilgrim give any exhortation to do so.
“2) the Bible commands us to also correct and rebuke (see-2 Timothy 4:2) in addition to praying.”
I am not disputing this. But commenting on a blog far removed from Ravi’s eyes about him being a potential apostate is not correcting, it’s borderline slander.
“And 3) there is also attempted dialogue behind the scene.”
Good. I’m glad. I hope that Ravi will repent.
God bless.
Dear Brad,
You said, “Again, Pilgrim, more harshness from you.”
I’m not really sure where this “harshness” you speak of is. I suppose it’s just perspective depending on who you’re trying to defend.
However, I do find it actually rather ironic that you accuse me of being harsh but yet say nothing (and even defend MCToneDef) who said such things as:
“Talk about a bunch of people so quick to jump on the hotbed of gossip;” and “Get a grip, people, please.”
There’s a nice amount of vitriol in his comment that you failed to address but since you’ve already taken the side that you’re going to volley from, I understand where your loyalty must lie from here on out (regardless of what transpires).
I acknowledge your attempts at being “neutral” but your comments have become anything but.
Dear Joshua:
I have been more than patient over the weeks (months?) that you’ve been leaving comments on DefCon. With few exceptions your comments have been always been critical of DefCon. As a guest on this blog (or in our house) you are always free to leave the same way you came in.
Now, I am NOT TRYING TO BE HARSH (so don’t even go there, Brad). What I AM SAYING is that just as if something you didn’t like came across your TV screen you have the ability to change the channel, you also have the ability to stop visiting DefCon whom you seem to have such a problem with.
In our Rules of Engagement, number three is specific about blog trolls; we don’t need them.
Dear Ken Silva:
It’s a waste of time to dispute this with those who refuse to use discernment, and who refuse to accept the facts. They have successfully moved the discussion away from Ravi’s errors to us. How clever and how commonplace.
Ravi’s been going down this road since at least 2004 and his errors have been well documented and yet all these individuals can say is, “don’t judge.” If they have reviewed the facts in this matter and they’re still finding only fault in us, then I suppose that reveals more about them than any long, drawn-out debate in this comments section can do.
This philosophy of neutrality (in spite of the facts) is the same mindset that allowed Joseph Smith, Charles T. Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, and Ellen G. White to flourish. I can only imagine Christians trying to oppose what these heretics were doing being met with the “don’t judge” and “you better be praying for them” and “how do you know what they really think” mantras that are so rampant today.
Instead of taking a stand between right and wrong; black and white; they seek to remain in the misty clouds of the gray; an area that God does not give us permission to remain in.
- The Pilgrim
“With few exceptions your comments have been always been critical of DefCon.”
This is incorrect. My only other ‘critical’ posts were on The attacking of Paul Washer and Mark Driscoll and against Desert Pastor’s wife exaggerations. I have not been critical of the service you and your team provide, and I have agreed with you on other posts.
“In our Rules of Engagement, number three is specific about blog trolls; we don’t need them.”
If agreeing with Brad and disagreeing with Ken counts as trolling, so be it….
“It’s a waste of time to dispute this with those who refuse to use discernment, and who refuse to accept the facts. They have successfully moved the discussion away from Ravi’s errors to us. How clever and how commonplace.”
And now you’ve failed to notice that neither Brad nor I have accepted, embraced, approved of, nor exalted Ravi or his claims, you have also failed to show how this frequent posting behind his back counts as ‘correction’. Instead, you label those that disagree with you as not having discernment….
“If they have reviewed the facts in this matter and they’re still finding only fault in us,”
I haven’t. I Think Ravi was wrong, but that doesn’t make your method’s here right. You’re having the same attitude as Ken here….
Your site is extremely helpful in dealing with many of the false doctrines that have invaded the Church, but both DefCon, Slice, and Apprising are quick to accuse those who want reconciliation as idolizing those who are in error. No wonder there’s no dialogue….
God Bless.
“… choose you this day whom ye will serve…”
-Joshua 24:15
“…How long halt ye between two opinions..?”
-I Kings 18:21
Pilgrim,
“It’s a waste of time to dispute this with those who refuse to use discernment, and who refuse to accept the facts. They have successfully moved the discussion away from Ravi’s errors to us. How clever and how commonplace.”
LOL; we’ve been down that road a few times, eh. 8^)
Joshua, Brad, MCToneDef, et al:
When I speak of “you all” in this comment please understand that I mean those who tend to disagree with everything we do, (or at least disagree more often than they ever agree). I am speaking in general as I am referring to the overall experience of operating a blog that deals in the realm of discernment.
I believe I also speak for Ken when I say that we do not enjoy arguing or fighting amongst ourselves. We do not look forward to battles in the comments sections with those who take issue with everything we say (if it’s not you guys on the Ravi issue it’s someone else on an entirely separate issue).
Sometimes I wish the patience and tolerance that our detractors display for the likes of Ravi Zacharias, Rick Warren, Mark Driscoll, etc. was also extended to us. Sadly this is not the case. When we present the public actions, words, and teachings of these men, we often times get arrows from all directions. The arrows that go the deepest, however, are the ones from those who claim to be from our own camp.
In this particular case regarding RZ, the facts have been laid out. The sources have been linked. There’s nothing in this matter that has been left to conjecture. Where my commentary has lacked, Ken’s has more than made up for that in his detailed posts (don’t know where he finds the time).
So the real question is: “What”s the problem?” Apparently you are kind of agreeing with us, but disagreeing that we haven’t made this information available in a fashion that you all prefer.
Allow me to draw you attention to the seriousness of this matter. Those who lead others astray are very, very dangerous. We are warned time and time again to watch out for them. We are to vehemently oppose any and all who would shipwreck the faith of another. In Ravi’s case, what does he need to do before you guys expend as much energy dealing with his heresy as you do with us not presenting it in the fashion that you think we should?
Would Ravi coming out and claiming he no longer believes in Sola Fide be the final straw?
He has essentially done that by endorsing Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen. Nouwen was not a proponent of the doctrine of Sola Fide so by Ravi calling him “one of the greatest saints in recent memory,” it doesn’t leave much wiggle room for Ravi (nor you) because he has just declared that faith in Christ alone is not the only way to salvation; “Look, Nouwen did it!”
See how serious this is? Even a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Then look at the LDS situation from back in 2004. Mormons were praising his appearance. Why? Because he went into the very bowels of the cult of Mormonism and left them feeling like everything was ok and that they’re serving the same Jesus Christ as we. Can you even for a moment imagine the Apostle Paul going in there and not uncompromisingly proclaiming the true Christ of the Scriptures?
As for not making a public pronouncement to pray for Ravi, I presumed this was a foregone conclusion. I thought it was not something that we have to say with every single post.
And finally, a quilting blog will deal with quilts as an NFL blog will deal with football. On DefCon we deal with defending the faith from those who would subvert it.
Unfortunately Watchmen are never popular. They are attacked, ridiculed, and hounded by those outside the city walls wishing to storm the city as well as by those within the city walls whom they are diligently trying to warn and protect.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
“As for not making a public pronouncement to pray for Ravi, I presumed this was a foregone conclusion.”
And that’s one of the issues I have with DefCon.
Your exposes are well written and informative, you are all charitable men and women, and you have earnestfully defended truth. All of this, has been an encouragement and a conviction to me.
However, too often DefCon will simply post a popular leaders failings(“The Smoldering Ash-Heap” title is but one example) While the expose may be needed, hardly any EMPHASIS on prayer is put forth.
Yes, the apostle Paul handed over people to Satan. However, it was done so that they would repent. That’s what I wish there was more of, not borderline slander and defensive tactics.
Anyway, I’m sorry my stances have been annoying or irritating. I ask your forgiveness.
God bless.
No prob Joshua.
And by the way, the title of this post is a continued play on words.
If you notice the previous posts:
Ravi’s Descent and Ravi’s Crash and Burn along with this latest post title The Smoldering Ash Heap . . . are all in reference (at least it was in my mind) to a description of an airplane crashing to the earth.
I knew based on the first couple compromises that it was only a matter of time before the plane would crash and burn; leaving only a heaping pile of ashes.
It is usually the inevitable result because compromise always takes a man where he never intended to go.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
Ken/Pilgrim,
You still don’t seem to get exactly what it is I’m saying. For the record (and I’ve stated this already, but will do so again, b/c evidently it must not have been clear), it does appear that RZ made the statements, and I agree with you that they are not correct. We’re not in debate about that. Do I think his statement(s) mean he has lost salvation, or rather never had it? No, I don’t, but I haven’t delved into the matter much more than this cursory reading, nor am I God.
What I have attempted to address is the method in which you’ve addressed it. Again, I’ve said this before, but evidently not clearly.
Do I believe that what he said should be pointed out as erroneous? Yes, I do – and you’ve done that.
What’s the next step? To attempt to reconcile the brother. Evidently, from what you say (and again, I haven’t had time to check, so I take you at your word), this has also been at least attempted, by trying to get his comments to this situation, and has not been productive so far, as RZ has not backed down from what he said.
OK, so now we’ve tried, to no avail (yet), so now what do we do. Here’s where we might differ. The issue has been pointed out, and RZ has been contacted. Let’s now stop and pray for him. Let’s consider how we approach him. Let’s consider that in the end, God’s will will be done regardless, and maybe it’s not up to US to change RZ’s mind, but instead it’s up to us to pray that his mind be changed SOMEHOW!
You see, I agree with you that errors need to be pointed out. I have struggled often with being TOO harsh, TOO critical of others. Yes, I had the right motive, which was to point out errors b/c we just can’t let those errors go unnoticed, and we don’t want anyone mislead. Just like you. However, what I’ve found is that often becomes more about me, than about the error. I had to be right – I had to point it out.
I don’t know you, so I can’t speak to your motives, or whether this might be a problem for you. I can only speak from experience and say that right things can often be done with poor methods, and thus not become as effectual as they could be.
Yes, I think RZ is wrong. Yes, I think we should point it out, in love, to him. No, I don’t think we should compromise Scripture, ever. I hope that’s clear.
Let’s see, Jesus knocked over the tables of the money changers, called the Pharisees white washed tombs, and a brood of vipers. Maybe He should have been more careful how He pointed out their error, & not been so ‘harsh’. Probably should have had a prayer meeting about them right then and there for a change of heart, huh ?
And what about that Apostle Paul, he named names, & called a spade a spade. Could all you guys wanting reconciliation try contacting Ravi yourself, and see how far you get? He’s saying these things in public, and he’s being rebuked in public. Don’t refer to this as gossip, or talking behind his back, that’s just so childish.
Ravi is a grown man who knows exactly what he said and is certainly intelligent enough to come to a correct conclusion if he so desires. It is time for those who complain about harshness to get a grip, not the other way around. With all the baloney out there today seeing respondents chastise and complain about the ‘manner’ of pointing out the rot was just over the edge. When the house is on fire you put it out, not complain that everything is getting wet.
Anne
Let’s see, Jesus knocked over the tables of the money changers, called the Pharisees white washed tombs, and a brood of vipers. Maybe He should have been more careful how He pointed out their error, & not been so ‘harsh’. Probably should have had a prayer meeting about them right then and there for a change of heart, huh ?
Jesus had a “righteous anger”, something that very few of us could say we have, b/c we’re sinful people, and Jesus never sinned. You’re missing the point, but I’ll get to it in a minute.
And what about that Apostle Paul, he named names, & called a spade a spade. Could all you guys wanting reconciliation try contacting Ravi yourself, and see how far you get? He’s saying these things in public, and he’s being rebuked in public. Don’t refer to this as gossip, or talking behind his back, that’s just so childish.
Anne, you may want to read the whole thread, to see exactly who is saying what. If you say you have, you may want to then be specific when you make assertions, as not all have done what you say (including myself). If you re-read, you’ll notice that I have been CLEAR – obviously, painstakingly, repeatedly CLEAR – that since RZ is wrong, there’s no issue with saying publicly that he’s wrong. I’ve not referred to it – EVER – as gossip or talking behind his back, so be careful when you make statements such as that. You need to be certain you can back them up with previous comments. From what has been written, RZ has been contacted, and has refused to retract his statements, and that’s really too bad, b/c they’re incorrect statements. The public has been made aware, and they should have. Now comes the last part, the hardest part – continuing to love RZ and pray for him, and continuing to earnestly seek a change for him. It’s easy to call someone out publicly – not so easy to lovingly try to show him his error. But both are necessary.
Ravi is a grown man who knows exactly what he said and is certainly intelligent enough to come to a correct conclusion if he so desires.
I’m not debating that, Anne – that’s correct.
It is time for those who complain about harshness to get a grip, not the other way around.
A “grip”? On what, Anne? Again, I’ve already said that a public “calling out” has happened, and was necessary. I’ve just said we need to take it a step further, and quit kicking the guy when he’s down, and seek to reconcile him. Do you disagree that we need to do that, Anne?
With all the baloney out there today seeing respondents chastise and complain about the ‘manner’ of pointing out the rot was just over the edge. When the house is on fire you put it out, not complain that everything is getting wet.
It’s not over the edge at all, it’s actually Biblical, Anne, although it’s often easy to overlook that part, but easy to do the public “calling out.” Look, I’ll be the first to call out the Osteens, Hinns, or Jakes of the world, b/c I think what they peddle is a muddled, incorrect view of God and His plan for us. But I’ll also pray that their hearts be changed. I don’t have a direct line to them or their ministries, but I do have a direct line to God, through Jesus Christ, just as you do.
When the house is on fire, you put it out, absolutely. Why? B/c you’re concerned about saving the house, not b/c you like to use the fire hose. And if the house should burn down despite your best efforts, if you truly loved the house, you seek to rebuild it, hopefully with the help of others.
Keep that in mind.
These posts seemed to end some time ago, but I hope this will in some small way add to the discussion.
I think one of the biggest problems in the world today is not enough people are watching Star Trek, because everything worth knowing I learned from Star Trek!
No I am just kidding to make a point. I used to be a big Star Trek fan, and when the first motion picture came out I went to see it, and I was very disappointed. The probe in the story that had left earth years ago as voyager 6 came back to earth as a powerful mechanical being calling itself V’GER, and looking for its creator. V’GER could not believe that humans could have created it. One of the Enterprise crew came up with the brilliant statement “of course everything creates god in its own image” I thought at the time it was the most stupid statement ever made, and it ruined the movie for me.
As I grew up and rededicated my life to the Lord Jesus Christ, He spoke to me and showed me there was a truth to that statement “everything creates god in its own image” or translated “everyone”, and if you look you will see so many people do believe in God, and even believe in Jesus, but not unto salvation. So many people today have created their own belief about God, and look for a man whose teachings best fit their beliefs, and follow that man.
We have seen this since the fall of man, and it is still with us today. In Jesus’ time when he said ” John 6:53 (KJV)
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Many of his disciples could not handle this, so they left to find a way that suited their beliefs. I think as we draw closer to the last days we will see and exponential increase of man following man.
I have enjoyed listen to Ravi for years, but have been trouble by a number of biblical inconsistency in his messages, and I would like to ask him about the inconsistency and about the reference to this priest as well.
He has probably become so insulated by his organization that it was unlikely that he even saw your letter to him.
Mark 13:20-21 (KJV)
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. [21] And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
If you are a Christian then Christ is in you the hope of glory, so study the word of God, and let no man deceive you!!
Just some rambling thoughts and I hope it adds something to the discussion
Regards, Bruce
I am shocked to hear of my favorite Christian apologist and philosopher’s heretical statements made in public. I came across this news quite by accident while trying to find some materials from him to forward to a friend, who doesn’t believe that truth is absolute. However, since RZM has been a beacon of light until now, I shall not throw the baby out with the bathwater in this instance. The irony here is that Ravi speaks so eloquently in defence of the truth. I dare say that what we are seeing and hearing is a manifestation of the kind of power the enemy can have over a mere mortal ,doing God’s work, who is not 100% in submission to the Lord, in every way. Ravi needs us to pray for him and his family like never before!
I still love him. I’ve learned so much from Ravi.
Have I been the only one to notice that in all of Ravi’s Cult books that Catholicism is NEVER listed in the Table of Contents??? It is really no surprise to learn that he has sold out to Rome and is compromising about Mormonism! Some people’s comments on here says they still love this guy and that he is great….and i am like WHAT? He is a sell-out to himself and more than that a sell-out to Jesus…especially since he agreed with NOT praying in Jesus’ name at the NDP. I plan on exposing him even more now! You are either ALL in for Jesus or you are NOT, it is that simple!
Pilgrim, Ken, great job. You guys are so thoughtful, patient, and articulate as you speak the truth in love. I always blow a fuse when I attempt to do what you guys are doing. I praise God for the character He’s developed in you.
Ravi Zacharias will be a featured speaker at the Christian and Missionary Alliance’s National General Conference. The C&MA is a serial abuser of the brethren, hijacking and/or suing one local C&MA church after another!