18 Comments

Walter Martin debates a 32nd degree Freemason.

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

18 comments on “Walter Martin debates a 32nd degree Freemason.

  1. The mason kind of got caught out a few times there, didn’t he? Too bad that instead of defending it he doesn’t just get out of it. How can two walk together except they be agreed? Christ and Belial do NOT go together, neither does light and darkness. Freemasonry is occultic and has the symbol. We have seen what it does to a church given a quarter of a chance!

  2. Just because Mr. Martin is more smug does not mean his rendition or interpretation of “masonic authorities” is correct. While he is quick to quote, he does not establish his conclusions on any intellectual/rational foundation. He merely quotes conclusions of others as evidence that his own conclusion is correct. This is intellectually deceiving.

  3. Chris,

    Are you a mason and/or a Christian?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  4. as one who attained the degreee of master mason I have all the qualifications and authority to proclaim to alll the the masonic organizsation is not a christ centered organization. As a follower of christ I can not and will not associate myself with the masons . They worship man and not God. A true christian can not be a mason because two cannot walk together unless they be in agreememt and masons do not agree with Christ.

  5. Raymond, Thank you for being willing to be open about the truth of Freemasons. May you know the blessing of the Lord. You are very much correct in reciting what the Bible says that two cannot walk together. A true believer CANNOT remain as a mason at any level! — The Desert Pastor

  6. I have been a mason for 4 years now. Religion is never discussed within the lodge. All of the many prayers are of a personal nature. I am a Roman Catholic who live in a predominantly protestant community so I know that most of my lodge brothers are protestants. This has never been an issue.

    The lack of Christian behavior and the high level of hypocrisy that I have witnessed in my church has driven me away years ago and forced me to take my spirituality to a personal level.

    Freemasonry has allowed me to act like a Christian in public again. I can honestly say that I have seen many more honest Christians within the Lodge than I have seen at Church.

    Take off your blinders please. It is a good organization and I feel closer to God and Jesus because I can now pray freely and feel the support of fellowship.

    To The Desert Pastor: I defy you to prove to me that I am not a true believer just because I do not act like you. Actions, not words define our ultimate worth. Isn’t there something in the Bible about judging?

  7. Andre, thanks for stopping by to read at DefCon. If you have seen more “honest Christians” in the lodge than at church, then I suspect that you have seen very few true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. No true believer has any business being in fellowship with worldly alliances which is DIRECT disobedience to the Scriptures.

    The main issue which is at stake here is NOT whether you are a true believer because you act like me or anybody else that you know. Neither is our eternal destiny based on our actions.

    The question which you should be posing to yourself is this: If you were to die tonight and stood before God, and He were to ask you, “Andre, why should I let you into my heaven?” — What would your answer be?

    Please give serious consideration to this because eternity does rest on your answer. I will give you a few helpful points – the answer will have NOTHING to do with the Roman Catholic system of religion, NOR Freemasonry, NOR any other organized system of religion found in the world today, NOR your own feelings of self-worth.

    I look forward to hearing back from you.

    The Desert Pastor

  8. My answer would be: “Because I have tried”. Which is the only thing that anyone can do.

    I have nothing to be ashamed of. It is important that I live my life with honor but it is not the most important thing in my life. I have tried to live according to basic Christians principles; I pray to God for my daily salvation, I try to be kind to my fellow man, I have been teaching my children about the Bible and the way of Love as Jesus showed us.

    Our community is not a rich one. When the Masons meet, we give according to our capabilities, we fund raise as much as we can. Last month, our lodge provided glasses to a young boy that needed a very expensive prescription and we also purchased Insulin for a young lady whose family is too poor to provide. Every month, we provide transportation for children and their families to the closest Shrine hospital. I am part of the audit committee and I can affirm that by the end of the year, if there are any monies left over, it is distributed to needy families of the area. The Lodge is opened and closed on a prayer and there is personal time for our own silent prayer.

    I am proud to be a mason. In no ways does it diminish my capability of being what I believe a good Christian. As a matter of fact, I sincerely believe that being a Mason has helped me being a better Christian as it has helped me to better publicly testify as I am of greater service to my community and my fellow man.

    If this is wrong and is considered just cause for my being barred from ever entering His heaven then I will be the first one to admit that the fraud committed on me has been complete and that I have been totally duped because I STILL believe that I am trying to be good Christian. There is no guilt in my soul when I go to bed at night.

    I still stand by my belief that actions speak louder than words. My own children have volunteered to give up all of their presents this year so that we can use the money to adopt a child through Christian Children’s funds.

    “When everything has been said that needed to be said, when everything has been done that needed to be done, it is not to die well, it is to have lived well that matters”.

  9. I recently joined a masonic lodge in CA and to be honest with you i did my research and i believe that being a Mason, is a brotherhood, a friendship where men can come together no matter what religion they are… in the lodge were all the same, and i think that the way the 32nd degree carried himself was wrong, put me up to a debate… I’ll Win….. Brother Chris- 21 CA

  10. I stumbled upon this thread long after most of you have forgotten about it. Yes, Andre, the Bible does say “something about judging”, quite alot, in fact. Let’s look at one such passage: 1 CORINTHIANS 5:9-13 (NIV): 9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

    12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

    In verse 12: “Are you not to judge those inside?”

    It is necessary for all competent Christians to judge one another, to ensure accountability, and ward off false doctrines and heresies. Just because a lodge has a bible open doesn’t mean anything, the bible is not a magical relic that implants holiness in people simply by being near it.

  11. Ok, you win, I loose. I’m going to hell. Lucky for me, I’ll be there with all my brothers.

    By the way, the next time the milk goes bad in your house, you can be sure that masonry is responsible for it. Yeah, we can do that. We’re that evil.

    For Chris/ 21,

    Sorry about that rant and congratulations on joining a lodge. I know that you will find it extremely rewarding and spiritually fullfiling, as I have. As for winning a debate, it’s just not worth the aggravations. You can’t do anything about those righteous blinders they’re all wearing. In their cases, “open minded” really means having a hole in their heads.

    As for the inverview, the mason was waylaid. Pure and simple. He was brought in under false assumptions and he was viciously attacked. Typical sanctimonious Bible thumper attitude.

    Please don’t bother replying because I’m blocking everything coming from this site. I’m tired of this mostly one-sided thread and unlike most of you, I have a life to live. Chris/ 21 excepted.

  12. Nice Oaths Andre and Chris/21!!

    Does your mom know you make these kinds of oaths?

    Jesus knows… and you WILL answer to Him for it.

    MASONIC ENTERED APPRENTICE OATH. Entered Apprentice is the first of the three basic degrees of Masonry.

    To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out, and with my body buried in the sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of an Entered Apprentice. So help me God and make me steadfast to keep and perform the same.

    MASONIC FELLOWCRAFT OATH. FellowCraft is the second of the three basic degrees of Masonry.

    To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart and vitals taken thence, and with my body given as a prey to the vultures of the air, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Fellow Craft. So help me God and make me steadfast to keep and perform the same.

    MASONIC MASTER MASON’S OATH. Master Mason is the third of the three basic degrees of Masonry.

    To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken thence, and with my body burned to ashes, and the ashes thereof scattered to the four winds of Heaven, that there might remain neither track, trace nor remembrance among man or Masons of so vile and perjured a wretch as I should be, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Master Mason. So help me God and make me steadfast to keep and perform the same.

    MASONIC SHRINERS OATH

    The oath of the Shrine concludes as follows: “…in willful violation whereof I may incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my feet flayed and I will be forced to walk the hot sands upon the sterile shores of the Red Sea, until the flaming sun shall strike me with livid plague, and may Allah the God of Arab, Muslim and Mohammedan, the God of our fathers support me to the entire fulfillment of the same, Amen, Amen, Amen.”

    I would rather follow the Bible’s admonition:

    Ephesians 5:7-14
    “7 Therefore do not become partners with them; 8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

    “Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

    11 “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

    12 “For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret.

    13 “But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, 14 for anything that becomes visible is light.”

    I’m going to hell. Lucky for me, I’ll be there with all my brothers.

    Oh yeah?

    Jesus tells you to AVOID Hell at ALL costs:

    Matthew 5:29-30
    “29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

    “30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”

    You think you and your ‘brothers’ will ‘hang out’ in Hell together? Here’s what the Bible says about Hell:

    everlasting fire — Matthew18:8, 25:41
    everlasting punishment — Matthew 25:46
    everlasting chains — Jude 1:6
    eternal damnation — Mark 3:29
    eternal judgment — Hebrews 6:2
    eternal fire — Jude 1:7
    unquenchable fire — Matthew 3:12
    the fire that never shall be quenched — Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
    fire unquenchable — Luke 3:17
    mist of darkness is reserved for ever — 2 Peter 2:17
    the blackness of darkness for ever — Jude 1:13

    Many will be there, but it will NOT be a party!

    Matthew 7:13-14
    “13 ‘Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

    “14′But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.’”

    Please don’t bother replying because I’m blocking everything coming from this site.

    That’s nice…

    “I don’t like your message, so ‘la la la la la’ I can’t hear you now!”

    Is joining such an organization really worth your eternity?

    Blood oaths?

    … your throat cut across?
    … your tongue torn out?
    … body buried in the sands of the sea?
    … your breast torn open?
    … your heart and vitals taken thence?
    … your body given as a prey to the vultures of the air?

    etc.

    You may say that these are not taken seriously, but… why, the, would you even utter them?

    Jesus commands us to make NO oaths!

    Matthew 5:33-37
    33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.’ 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

    Mark 8:36
    “36 For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

    Is it really worth it?

    In Jesus,
    - Jeff H

  13. “I don’t like your message, so ‘la la la la la’ I can’t hear you now!”

    It’s called reciprocity. By the way, if you’re going to quote, do it right. The oaths have been amended years ago and have added the word “symbolically” before the description of the punishment.

    Now go read the Bible while I’m busy living my life by being kind to my neighbour, attending church with my family and attending a monthly meeting with an evil organization whose sole purpose is to raise funds to assist needy families with things like purchasing glasses for their children, paying for tuition for special education needs and raising millions of dollars annually to pay for the Shriner’s hospital. All very evil, I’m sure.

    Get a life, a real one.

  14. Andre – I suggest you take your own advice and “…go read the Bible” for it seems you are without understanding in some of the most vital truths it preaches.

    One, I would be real curious to hear your response to what Jeff posted. Is what he posted the same oaths you made in your allegiance to the Masons? Is this of God; that is the God of the Bible?

    Two and more importantly is that you will find no para-church state submitting (i.e. 501c-3) non-church organizations in the Scriptures. All works of charity and ministering were done through a local congregation (i.e. church) of believers in Jesus Christ. Because therein, the Lord and his Father, and not man or some organization of reprobates, gets the glory. Where the works are done by the powering of the Holy Spirit and not the flesh of man.

    Three, you seem very proud to openly proclaim all the good both you and the Masons are doing. Well, I’m here to tell you by the authority of God’s word that you have your reward and will receive nothing else for it; except possibly condemnation (see Matthew 7:22-23). For if you were to read and heed the Word of God you would find that one is not to proclaim their good deeds to be praised of men; a sin most assuredly that goes way beyond the Masons.

    “Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.” (Mat 6:1-4)

    The choice is yours to make. Forsake the Masons, heed the words of Scripture, repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

  15. Andre,

    The oaths have been amended years ago and have added the word “symbolically” before the description of the punishment.

    You seem to have missed where I wrote:

    “You may say that these are not taken seriously, but… why, the, would you even utter them?”

    I’m busy living my life by being kind to my neighbour,

    Without Jesus Christ, the Bible says you are still God’s ENEMY and are under His condemnation…

    … attending church with my family…

    Without Jesus Christ… strike two…

    … and attending a monthly meeting with an evil organization…

    Without Jesus Christ… strike three…

    But… God is RICH in mercy and grace and even now holds out His Hand of salvation to you.

    Andre, you can turn (repent) from all of the sin in your life… as all Christians have done… and put your complete faith in Jesus Christ and He promises He will save you.

    Lord Jesus has been so kind to us when we were unlovable. The Bible says that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Andre, you can have Eternal Life starting today. God gives you His promise!

    In Christ (and hoping you will be too, Andre),

    - Jeff

  16. Andre, it is not out of self-righteousness we ‘attack’ you: I care for you and your family. Men are to be the priest of the household. If you are following odd, unscriptural, and incorrect doctrine, you will lead your family astray. You don’t need the Masons and their lifeless rituals.

    It’s not too late for you.

  17. Andre if you ever happen to stop by here again, I hope that you can think again on the word’s of the desert pastor on February 3rd 2009, and your response.

    “The question which you should be posing to yourself is this: If you were to die tonight and stood before God, and He were to ask you, “Andre, why should I let you into my heaven?” — What would your answer be?”

    You said “Because I have tried”.

    Andre and Chris, if you can just ignore all the fighting about judging and whether Freemasonry is evil for a moment and think about what you would say if you stood before God.

    Do you think that trying to do good would be sufficient for God to pass over the evil that you (like every human being on this planet) has perpetrated in your lifetime? If you think back now upon your life, can you really still go to bed at night with a guilt-free conscience?

    I know that when I am true about myself I have perpetrated many dark and evil things. I could not hope to ever stand before God and tell him that I tried to do the right thing and that is enough for him to pass over the evil that I have done – even if I gave everything I had to the poor and lived every moment the rest of my life only doing good! It is not a matter of the good I do outweighing the bad, I can NEVER CHANGE the evil things I have done. I can’t go back in time and erase them!

    A Christian is a person who has come to the end of himself, and has instead put his trust and hope in Jesus. Jesus took our evil upon him so that we could be saved if we put our faith in Him.

    It is good to hear that you have been teaching your children about the bible. Jesus himself said “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no-one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME” (John 14:6), the bible also teaches that “All who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved” (Acts 2:21). There are many, many more scriptures on this topic, I encourage you to look further into it. Perhaps God is calling you to Him?

    Andre I encourage you, as someone who believes that there is a God, to put your faith in His Son, Jesus, as the ONLY WAY that you will stand before God with a clean conscience, knowing that God has taken your sin from you and placed it upon Jesus! You can then know that when you stand before God you will be accepted by Him! You will know real joy and freedom and it will change not just your future eternity, but your ‘here and now’ life as well.

  18. I am a 32nd Degree Scottish RIte Mason and a Master Mason at my Lodge. Also a Pentecostal Christian. I Keep seeing the quotes on Albert Pike’s Book Morals and Dogma a book that is obsolote and not taught in Lodges or Higher Degrees of Masonry. The New Book is called a Bridge to Light… I also saw a comment from a christian claiming to have attained master mason degree saying that Freemasonry is not a Christ centered organization… Well it isnt because it is not a Church, it is not a religion… as a fact the only prayer done in a lodge is reading from the old testament a psalm which can be found in the Torah, Old testament and Koran… Further mentions of religion or politics are strictly forbidden for they divide men… We run an organization based on moral values and do not claim that through masonry people save their souls or anything like that. If Churches and so called “Pastors” “Prophets” “Apostols” dedicated the time spent bashing freemasonry to helping fellow man just like we do in lodges with our help to widows and childrens programs we’d have a much better society and a stronger church. In the years ive been a mason i have not seen anything satanic, evil or anything weird. The day I do i will walk away and denounce it but these attacks based on a book a guy wrote about his own personal views a hundred years ago and most of them which are misquoted or out of context is just absurd…

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: