“In verse 1, “In the beginning he made the heavens and the earth,” he makes everything. And then you go day by day and he’s preparing the land. He’s not bringing new things into existence; he’s preparing the land and causing things to grow and separating out water and earth. And then, when it’s all set and prepared, he creates and puts man there.

So that has the advantage of saying that the earth is billions of years old if it wants to be—whatever science says it is, it is—but man is young, and he was good and he sinned. He was a real historical person, because Romans 5 says so, and so does the rest of the Bible.”

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/what-should-we-teach-about-creation

This is were you get into the problem that you would have to believe that death and dying occurred before original sin of man and that suffering, and dying in the world wasn’t caused by man. If you try to mix evolution with the Bible, it will blow your theology apart.

Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day.

Jesus Christ said in Mark 10:6…”But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.” Here, Christ is saying that they were created at the beginning.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcvemw_to-desiring-god-2010-rick-warren-jo_webcam

Or, maybe I should rephrase – Is it true that Mr. Horton agreed with the decision?

I can only hope and pray that you are simply not aware of the following expose and warning, regarding Rick Warren.

I have written two books exposing Rick Warren. Southwest Radio has released my two speeches on Rick Warren on DVD and just reprinted my book exposing his global peace plan.

I pray that you will take heed and actively oppose Rick Warren from speaking at this conference.

Kindest regards in Christ,

James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing

It’s really sad that it’s come down to this but the more we hear about Piper, the worse it gets!

That analogy with the Pope was dead-on. After-all, to Warren the Pope is his brother in Christ as well.

This in and of itself ought to be enough to raise red flags with the discerning, but then he takes his high-stakes game of theological chicken to the next level by going beyond questionable associations, and regularly inviting unorthodox and yes, even heretical speakers into his pulpit providing them with plum speaking engagements at his “big name conference”, thereby giving a platform (and tacit approval) to men who regularly and incorrigibly bring reproach to the cause of Christ.

Frankly nothing the man does surprises me anymore.

Sadly I’m forced to conclude that the real John Piper has finally stood up.

In Christ,
CD

P.S. – Pope Benedict the XVI is also widely recognized as being a deeply theological and brilliant man; might we expect to soon hear the following excerpt emanating just before Piper’s Great Downgrade Conference next year?

“I had mentioned some negative things earlier about high church liturgy, I said the black community didn’t get into it BUT the observation was the black community at least some of you, DID get into Marian Dogmas and the mystery of the Mass. Uh mainly from the cathechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican II, and Pope Benedict XVI, isn’t uh, non-Trinitarian BUT…uh…from St. Peter’s Basilica, he just conducted a Mass there, and spoke of the cross, and the mystery of transubstantiation, and I was moved. And do I, what do I think about all that?

“So these guys are gonna go interview him tomorrow I think so you can quote some of these things. I do think he’s deeply theological. He’s a brilliant man. He wouldn’t have the church he does or the Cardinals, or the infallible magisterium, or all the influence he does, and of course he’s sitting in the chair of Peter, right? He is the shining Glory of God on earth. So I don’t think he’s all that bad. At root I think he is theological and doctrinal and sound. And what makes him tick? Actively and doing church? I intend to find out. So. I like him and I’m frustrated by some of his stuff.”

In fairness this contains Dr. Piper’s own explanation: http://apprising.org/2010/03/31/john-piper-himself-explains-concerning-rick-warren-invite/

Thanks for posting it. I have similar concerns. Now they seem to be coming to light even more now that he has invited Rick Warren to speak at DG 2010.

John M, Scripture is full of graphic descriptions and harsh language, but not innuendo like Driscoll has used.

LIE WITH DOGS…

There is nothing effeminate about potty-mouthing. If anything, it is a reaction to the prissy, “old lady” atmosphere of some churches that could legitimately be described as emasculated. So they go to the other extreme and center the church around the sensibilities of hormone addled teenage boys.

Piper’s and Driscoll’s churches are all male in their leadership, and I believe the foul language is one of the results when women and men are not both represented in church leadership.

In Christ,
CD

I am disheartened by Piper’s apparent stance on this issue.

I will comment that it is crucial to point these things out as you are doing. The people with even the most Scriptural messages without the lives to back them up can be the most insidious wolves in sheep’s clothing. I have worked in the ministries of several wolves in sheep’s clothing and have seen the destruction they do, because no one believes that men with such great messages could be so destructive with their lives and how they lead others.

I’m not by any means calling John Piper a wolf. I’m simply not in a position to have judged his life or his actions. I’m merely saying that God’s Word will always accomplish what it is set out to do (Is. 55:11), no matter who is speaking it. On the other hand, men’s lives will ultimately show whether they themselves possess Christ.

Your comment is spot on accurate and perhaps it’s Piper’s inconsistency in this matter that I find most disturbing.

In Christ,
CD

Thanks for posting this powerful twin rebuke of Piper’s inconsistency and Driscoll’s irreverence.

Piper demonstrates a HUGE disconnect between what he writes in his books and how he addresses men and issues like Driscoll, the aptly labeled “Cussing Pastor.”

Thanks again,

LM

I too am thankful whenever God chooses to use sinful men to bring glory to Himself as this is a truly amazing and humbling thing for the Infinite Creator and Judge of the universe to undertake to do for His own good pleasure!

This being said I’m truly saddened when the same men who claim and profess Christ dishonor Him and bring shame upon His church by their unbiblical practices and teachings such as those under consideration within this particular thread.

Can you kindly give me a chapter and verse where the Holy Bible states that “Christians are those who always feel ours are the worst of all” which you made in reference to our supposed “weaknesses” and “faults”? Maybe I’ve overlooked the verse where it is written that “Ye shall know them by the way the always feel their faults and weakness are the worst of all.” Actually that sounds like it could something from the Book of Mormon, I’m not sure – but is it Biblical?

No?

I didn’t think so.

Look MC, in the light of scripture sin isn’t a simple “weakness” or an unfortunate character “fault”. Reading your comment makes it seem as though sin is something akin to an impolite habit like belching in public or perhaps an annoying and inconvenient illness akin to a lingering head cold.

But the truth is that sinful fallen mankind’s “weaknesses” and “faults” as you euphemistically describe them aren’t in view at all in scripture, rather his totally abhorrent, completely abominable, utterly reprehensible, and unspeakably and radically corrupted sinful nature which will land him in eternal fiery torments apart from the grace of God alone is fully in view.

If you’re sincerely wondering how I feel about my sin (not my “faults” or my “weaknesses” which are legion by the way) then I’d simply tell you to gaze upon the gory, offensive, stumbling block of foolishness that is the cross of Christ and behold the sinless, perfect Lamb of God brutally slain in my place and maybe then you may begin to understand why I can’t even properly put into words my eternal debt of gratitude and thankfulness to the One who came to seek and save unworthy sinners.

What love is this that the King of Glory should set aside His heavenly throne and abandon the praise of veiled-face cherubim to take on flesh and live among His own perverse, rebellious, stiff-necked creations who would one day unjustly condemn Him to death and nail him to a cruel Roman cross? What love is this that He should out of the sea of reprobate humanity pluck an unworthy lump of sin and trespass such as I, lifting me like a glowing firebrand from hell’s licking flames? Amazing grace.

In Christ,
CD

Jeremiah 17:9 tells us why “knowing something with all our heart” is not the best way to determine if someone is a man of God or whether his works are for the Kingdom.

“How can you say he isn’t doing something good in seattle? I mean he has like 6 campuses now with upwards of 5000 people and is preaching the gospel. I think that it is like 40-50% of his members met Jesus in that church and is now serving for Mars Hill and for the community. Come on!”

Poor Noah and Jeremiah. They had zero campuses and nowhere near 5000 people. What failures.

“do not be alarmed by his “harsh” language because it is not that bad, and in most cases, Driscoll is right!”

In the Biblical requirements for a bishop, is there one that says that bishops are not to be “that bad?” If Driscoll is right “in most cases” would a Berean Christian just let the few cases where he is not right, slide by unmentioned? I mean, come on! Lighten up on your Biblical standards, people!

The post didn’t say that MD is an ARMINIAN, the post said he holds an Arminian view of particular redemption and election and holds out an Arminian/pragmatic gospel presentation – see exact quotes below:

-He is Arminian in regards to his views on particular redemption and election (the two go hand in hand). After listening to many of his sermons, he really doesn’t understand the nature of the atonement in regards to propitiation.

-He is also extremely Arminian/pragmatic in his presentation of the gospel. To be fair, he preaches a non-easy-believism gospel, but then his call for others to be saved is very Warrenesque (”just believe and receive…”). Driscoll IS the seeker-friendly ecumenical movement in grunge rags.

Please understand that I’m NOT claiming that a perfect theology and a perfect understanding of Christ are prerequisites for a person to be saved since none of us meet such requirements nor is such a concept found anywhere in the pages scripture. But I am saying that a person can intellectually assent to the truth claims of Christ and possess all the head knowledge of Biblical Christian orthodoxy and still be damned to a Christless eternity because what matters isn’t that someone claims to possess Christ, but that one is the possession of Christ.

If there’s no evidence of the sanctifying indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit manifest in the life of a believer by the fruit of the Spirit, then one must examine the reality of one’s faith.

There’s simply no such thing as a disobedient Christian as a pattern of life. True Christians don’t walk in continual, unbroken, unrepentant patterns of sin and rebellion against God’s Word. Certainly true Spirit-filled, born again believers can and do sin both miserably and frequently, but in contradistinction to the unregenerate self-righteous false believer who attempts to blame shift and justify his sin the true believer is broken and grieved by his sin and flees to the cross with a contrite and repentant heart.

With this in mind what are we to make of Mark Driscoll’s well established, continual, unbroken, unrepentant pattern of ungodly, filthy, fleshy, worldly, smutty, sensual, devilish, Christ-dishonoring speech from the pulpit? In the light of scripture is this the mark of an approved under-shepherd of the Risen Lord of Glory? Is this type of reprehensible behavior representative of the Biblical model of a pastor-teacher who is to feed and water Christ’s little flock? Does homoerotic innuendo about the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven strike anyone as modeling godly, edifying, and Christ honoring speech?

Of course not. In fact in the light of scripture such behavior and attitudes are manifestly demonic and blasphemous and as such it ought to be crystal clear that Mark Driscoll is in desperate need of repentance.

In Him,
CD