46 Comments

Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder taking their circus to Korea.

It’s maddening to know that this junk is being exported from America. Oh how we have fallen.

Apparently 1 Corinthians 14:40 doesn’t translate into Korean:

But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.


46 comments on “Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder taking their circus to Korea.

  1. Sooooo heartbreaking. Those people need the truth and instead they are being milked by charlatans. Simply horrible…

  2. Ummmm….For cryin out loud? Is that appropriate here? SERIOUSLY….I never thought it mattered much, but it stands to reason that THIS is just one reason many don’t take the “Testimony” of American Christians seriously….

  3. They call themselves the “New Mystics.” Mysticism is nothing more than witchcraft. I was unfortunately in a service that Ben Dunn had a part of worship, and it was an abomination to God. It was more sensual and sexual and was not worship at all. I was very dissappointed in the pastor of this church for not having discernment. I believe in being in the presence and the glory of God where signs, wonders and miracles take place. It happens in our church. This is not God in any form and in fact is a counterfeit spirit that is being loosed today and gullable pastors are not watching over their flocks to protect them from idiots like John Crowder and Ben Dunn. Thier new album is called “Token the Ghost.” I guess you can smoke the “Holy Spirit” like a reefer. I would warn any one to stay away from these false prophet-mystics they will bring confusion and a counterfeit spirit where ever they go.

  4. maybe what our problem is, is that we are stuck in a religious mindset and use the word to twist the works of God. like holy drunkenness. maybe people don’t want to follow americans because of their fundamentalism and the idea that laws over love is the right way to go…..
    Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder have gotten many saved. so how can they account for a circus act when they are in the like mind of christ?

  5. No Andrea, you are not only wrong, but you are dead wrong.

    Crowder and Dunn and not getting anyone saved. They are ravenous wolves, they are clouds without water, they are autumn trees without fruit, they are false prophets, and they are leading many souls to Hell (yourself included if you are following them).

    Their mockery and blaspheming of God’s name alone condemns them and cannot be supported with Scripture with all the smoke and mirrors you or others try to use to justify their demonic actions.

    These wolves with the blood of lambs on their lips are filled with unrighteousness, wickedness, evil, and deceit. They are without understanding, they are inventors of evil, and they are haters of God.

    And you and others like you Andrea must repent. Your support/defense of them will not leave you innocent before God on the day of judgment.

    – The Pilgrim

  6. My attitude toward Dunn, Crowder, is the same as Paul’s response:

    “15-17It’s true that some here preach Christ because with me out of the way, they think they’ll step right into the spotlight. But the others do it with the best heart in the world. One group is motivated by pure love, knowing that I am here defending the Message, wanting to help. The others, now that I’m out of the picture, are merely greedy, hoping to get something out of it for themselves. Their motives are bad. They see me as their competition, and so the worse it goes for me, the better—they think—for them.
    18-21So how am I to respond? I’ve decided that I really don’t care about their motives, whether mixed, bad, or indifferent. Every time one of them opens his mouth, Christ is proclaimed, so I just cheer them on!”
    (Philippians 1:15-21 THE MESSAGE)

    “15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? not withstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.” (Philippians 1:15-18 KJV)

    “38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
    40 For he that is not against us is on our part.”
    (Mark 9:38-40 KJV)

  7. Dear RIVERGUY:

    This would actually be applicable if they were preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified . . . but they’re not. They’re preaching “toking the ghost” and “getting high on the most high.”

    I think what Paul says in Galatians 1:6-9 is much more apropos to these “dudes”:

    I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!


    – The Pilgrim

  8. Andrea, you say, ‘Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder have gotten many saved. ‘ There could not be a more hypocritical statement! We do not save anyone, we have no power to save. Please, open your bible and pray for understanding.

    Hear the word of the Lord, ‘For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.’ Romans 1:16
    Do you see from that verse where the power to raise a lost sinner dead in transgression comes from? We give the Gospel to the lost, God is the one who brings them to Christ {John 6:44}. The Gospel is a call to repent, and cry out to God for mercy. It isn’t like deciding what you’ll eat from the menu at McDonalds! Only God can take a lost sinner and bring him/her back to life, re-birthing them by His power, that same power that raised Christ from the dead. The TRUE GOSPEL is offensive to the lost Christ-rejecting world, that is why so many ‘doctor it up’ so they can swoon lost souls with a candy coated message that fills pews, as well as hell. Please, quit looking for a comfortable way to heaven, a message that does not offend or cost you anything, instead, fall on your face before Him and cry out for His mercy, His forgiveness, His gift of salvation to be given you through His son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
    May God open the understanding of all who are caught up in the deception that fills American pulpits from the east coast to the west.

  9. Andrea and RIVERGUY, this is not the gospel. This is straight from the pit of hell. The deception will only get stronger. If we have the attitude that people are being saved and they are hearing the gospel through these people we are already deceived. We must stick to God’s Word, even when we are the only ones. There are tough days ahead, only through perseverence in God’s Word, and grace will we stand.

  10. Have either of you EVER sat in a John Crowder meeting to know EXACTLY what he preaches? Have you ever read his books to know what he teaches? I will state this, I do not completely agree with all of Crowder’s doctrine’s, but I do know that he preaches Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Do they talk about “toking the Ghost”? Yes. But it does not absolve their message of salvation in Christ alone. That does not take away from the fact that they lead people in the prayer of salvation worldwide. They lead people to Jesus.

  11. riverguy, this comment of yours needs addressed…”That does not take away from the fact that they lead people in the prayer of salvation worldwide. They lead people to Jesus” …what is the prayer of salvation, and where is it found in scripture?

    This whole ‘pray a prayer’, ‘make a decision’, ‘choose Jesus’ is not biblical. This is easy believism; Billy Graham is known for this method of evangelism, and many have traveled down the broad road because of it.

    We must understand, only God can save someone, not based on what WE say or do {this is salvation by works}, but SOLELY on His grace {For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast-Eph. 2:8-9}. We are dead in sin, {And you were dead in your trespasses and sins- Eph. 2:1} and remain dead to the things of God until He draws us to Jesus Christ {John 6:44}.
    The Bible is clear, the dead sinner cannot revive himself. With that said, how is repeating a prayer going to revive you? You are basing salvation on some magic formula, again, nowhere in scripture are we commanded to simply invite Jesus into our hearts. A lost sinner is not saved until God does a work in your heart, humbling you and breaking you over your sins. He must til up the fallow ground of your sin-hardened heart; His Spirit convicts as the power of the Gospel is preached. Salvation in America has been reduced to a simple prayer, a choice; the mouth speaks, but the heart remains unchanged.

    Again, NO ONE leads anybody to Christ, we aren’t responsible for the results of preaching the true Gospel, nor can we take credit. God uses His people, but, HE receives all glory. Man cannot and should not take credit for a truly transformed life.

    Take a listen to this from Pastor Paul Washer,
    entitled, “Are you a true disciple”, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=122081214317

    or this one, entitled “Shocking youth message”, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52906154239

    or this one, entitled “Examine Yourself”, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=5220621750

    I encourage you to listen to at least ONE of these messages, this is Godly preaching.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    I am not sure if my last post was lost in cyberspace or not, so I will briefly re-post the essentials.
    Riverguy, your statement “That does not take away from the fact that they lead people in the prayer of salvation worldwide. They lead people to Jesus” needs attention.
    Where in the bible does God command us to repeat a prayer for salvation?

    Please, listen to this sermon entitled ‘Are you a true disciple’ by Pastor Paul Washer at http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=122081214317

    This sermon addresses the unbiblical approach to salvation through a repeated prayer; it is enlightening, informative, and edifying. You will be blessed if you listen.

  12. I have watched numerous videos of theirs as long as I can take their mockery of God before being compelled to turn it off. In none of those did they ever preach the Gospel, but instead furthered their foolish and juvenile behavior.

    No one, especially a dying world, should have to sift through ten tons of dung to find a life-giving gem.

    Furthermore, the Benjamin and Dunn crowd (along with their sadly deceived disciples) frequently use the word “Jehovahuana” as in they’re getting high on “Jehovahuana.”

    Thus saith the Lord God:
    You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. Exodus 20:7

    – The Pilgrim

  13. RIVERGUY,

    This is the very sort of thing the apostle Paul had to fight against in the early church. And it is why he wrote such passages as 1st Corinthians 14, as well as his letters to Timothy and Titus. In the early church, many times when the assembly would come together it would be a free-for-all, with all kinds of shenanigans going on. Finally, the Holy Spirit led Paul to put his foot down and say, “Enough!” and write this to the Corinthians–“Let ALL THINGS be done DECENTLY and IN ORDER”

    And just in case you’re thinking of using the tired old, “Well, yeah but we live in different times”–don’t. The times Paul lived in were no different than today. In fact, the times were even worse, as the use of drugs in a religious ceremony was all too commonplace.

    We as the church are not called to embrace every whacky method that comes along to spread some type of quote-unquote-“gospel”–which is nothing more than “WHOOOAA! We’ve had a good time, huh dudes? Yeah! Oh, by the way, ask Jesus into your heart. OK? Awwwright!” This is garbage that has no place in the church of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  14. I also watched some videos of theirs after reading this article. I could not stomach their blasphemy, of gods drunken glory. There is no gospel preached, and even if there was peoples minds would be so polluted with everything else they said, they would not want the Gospel. Our God is HOLY, HOLY HOLY. The only way to come to Him is through His Son our precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They should be bowed before Him, trembling , pleading for forgiveness for what they are doing in His Name. All nature bows before Him, only man mocks.

  15. I’ve read a lot of things in my lifetime, but sometimes ignorance just takes the cake. How can you assume these guys never preach the gospel, just because you’ve seen some silly Youtube clips? None of you have read their books, listened to their sermons or even met them before you slagged them on a public forum. If that’s not judging a book by its cover, I don’t know what is. I have seen these guys teach NUMEROUS times, and that’s literally all they talk about – the Gospel. In fact, they sound like a broken record, talking about what Jesus did on the cross, over and over until you get it. By the end of the meeting, although everyone is joyful, the fear of the Lord really comes because you just realized that most of these people had been in church their whole lives and they never believed the Good News. They had just been indoctrinated with dry theology, kill-yourself-works and morality. The last thing these guys would ever do is mock God. That’s why they incessantly mock the phony, religious brand of “Christianity” where people are depressed, critical, arrogant and argumentative.

    Just “in case” you were wrong on this one, you should take it easy on these guys before jumping on the bandwagon to lynch them. Not saying they’re perfect or that you have to agree with their style, delivery or methods. But I gaurantee you that they love Jesus and He loves them just as much as He loves you.

  16. I know this may sound cruel, but the ‘experiment’ did serve a purpose. It served to illustrate the impact of these ‘dudes’ on a child of God. Although subjective, it still underscores the point that most of us agree on: the Crowder/Dunn show is slanderous of our thrice holy Father in heaven. Here’s what happened:

    My little sister (just turned 20) and her friend came by for coffee yesterday. Her friend is someone who admittedly was a false-convert, who was baptized but quickly ‘withered away’ (Lk. 8″6). I had just watched this C&D video, and it was still open on my computer in the study. My sister and I had both been witnessing to this fellow, and many are praying for him. We started talking about the walk of a Christian, and holiness, and the conversation led to spiritual warfare. I told them both that we are up against the enemy Satan and is machinations and demons, and up against a fallen, sinful world. I explained that there are people who are among us (brute beasts a la Jude & Peter) who purport to be Christians, but their lives heap slander and reproach on the name of God. Then it occurred to me to show them this video, as an example of what I was talking about. Neither have been exposed to this before, and my sister was (praise God!) totally naive to it.

    Well, needless to say, I couldn’t finish the video. My sister is not hypersensitive like a lot of her peers seem to be. She can show a pretty resilient exterior. However, she was nearly in tears after watching this. She was absolutely shocked, and couldn’t respond to it. Her hands were shaking. A few minutes later, she was really angry. She was immediately worried what her friend thought about Christians. She was actually upset that I let them see this. I admit, I felt bad. Pragmatism can be ugly. She did however understand my point, and after this God really used her to continue witnessing to our guest. Still though, I can’t forget the affect that this blasphemous garbage had on someone who isn’t really exposed to this kind of thing. It was heartbreaking. You could see the words on her face, “THEY do this to MY God?!” and “THIS is NOT Christianity.”

    Do we as Christians feel like we need to spend a lot of time apologizing for what get’s done in the name of Christ? Or do we ignore it all, and faithfully contend for the faith once delivered to the saints; our feet firmly planted on our foundation, not apologizing for the plastic visage that the wolves put on our God, but straitly looking ahead? There have been times where, in my lack of faith, I’ve felt like I had to ‘make up’ for what these wolves have done. Maybe I should just let the gospel speak for itself like it always has…

  17. Shawn~did this gospel include the command to repent? Did this gospel include the command to deny self? Do these gentlemen speak of the hatred and persecution that awaits the follower of Christ? Do they tell people they must be born again, and this new birth is not humanly possible? Do they mention salvation is of the Lord, His gift given by His grace? Do they tell of the punishment for sin, eternal hell; that every human being is worthy only of death?

    I challenge you to listen to this, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=122081214317
    Compare this message to what your heroes preach, using the bible as the guide.

    BTW, this video is enough to make a true blood bought believer physically sick, this mockery is not biblical; whatever spirit is causing these people to react the way they are is not the Spirit of God. You simply cannot belong to Christ and carry on the way these folks do.

    Why do so many follow this junk? “The coming of the [lawless one] is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” 2 Thess. 2:9-12

  18. There is a similar post over at http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/more-high-on-jesus-nonsense-2/#comment-1650

    Read the response from Bud Press of http://www.christianresearchservice.com…it is mind boggling and should cause all to pray for those caught up in this hodge podge.

  19. Yes Lyn,
    I’m telling you, these guys preach the REAL DEAL. Yes to all your questions. Why, having never been to one of their meetings, are you just assuming from the onset that the answer would be “no” to any of these questions? I’ll tell you why: it’s because of the hearsay, criticism, gossip-mongering and complete misunderstanding as to what these guys are up to in reaching out to the counterculture. The body of Christ should be supporting them, but since they are creative, different, more fruitful than most of their critics, and actually “happy” and not miserable in their acceptance of the Good News, we are quick to shoot down what we don’t understand. That’s why I say that “ignorance takes the cake.” I believe the church is going to look back in 20 years and realize they have done these guys a great disservice by not acknowledging their creativity, and the real, God-given anointing on their lives. What a lot of people are calling “discernment” against these guys is really just plain and simple “accusation.” It’s the accuser of the brethren at work again, “amongst and through” the brethren. So many silly things people make up about these men of God!

    It’s funny you asked this, “Do these gentlemen speak of the hatred and persecution that awaits the follower of Christ?” I think they understand this one VERY well … don’t you?

  20. Shawn, You say ‘yes’ to all my questions, but you are not being truthful.
    These two preach doctrines of demons, not the true gospel the Lord Jesus commanded to be preached. The ‘fruit’ of those who follow them is evidence.

    Here is what Bud Press from http://www.christianresearchservice.com notes, {Thanks to Lexy for the link}

    “In preparation for an upcoming article, I have kept an ear open to the terms and catch-phrases coming from the mouths of those within the movement who claim to be Christian. Here are some examples:”

    – meth anointing (crystal meth)
    – piggy anointing (snorting sounds)
    – barking like dogs
    – hissing like snakes
    – oinking like pigs
    – Jesus is my bartender
    – drunken druelrs
    – drunk circus
    – toking the Bible
    – slosh fest on the blood of Jesus
    – smoking Jehovahjuana
    – post-glory dust snorting impartation
    – taking power hits off the baby Jesus
    – swimming in Papa’s milky goo
    – glory hose to heaven
    – releasing the slobbery drunken glory
    – the gospel is pure laughter!
    – smearing one’s face into the gospel like a pig in a trough
    – drueling (slobbering) in the spirit
    – heavenly portal of Holy Ghost crack
    – smoking the Holy Spirit crack pipe
    – chicken impartation (clucking sounds)
    – denial of the deity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity
    – swimming in the fatty-ashes of the Lord Jesus
    – naughty stuff in Jesus’ name
    – snorting dust from the tomb of Jesus Christ
    – smoking the Lamb of God
    – smoking the cross of Christ
    – necromancy (communication with the dead)
    – constant throwing of the mind so the spirit can party
    – pentagram (taking it back in the name of Jesus)

    “The above terms and catch-phrases (and many more) have demonic activity written all over them. One question that must be asked is: Can one be a Christian and a blasphemer at the same time?”–Bud Press

    Their ‘converts‘ are caught up in a world of drug-induced euphoria. Shawn, you are in sad shape if you follow the teachings of Crowder and Dunn. Your loyalty should be to Christ alone, not two gurus who resemble a modern day Cheech and Chong.
    Crowder and Dunn are sons of Satan, spewing out an accursed gospel, producing converts for Satan, NOT Christ.
    Open your bible Shawn, and cry out for understanding. Look at the Apostles, how they lived, what they preached.
    The early church didn’t go around laughing hysterically, rolling on the floor…that is not what the Spirit of Christ produces. The spirit[s] that produce such behavior is not from God.
    May God have mercy on you Shawn, and all who follow this cult- like type of heresy.

  21. Shawn:

    Here’s a really good quote… for your edification:

    “I think that it is so important to know this. In a time like this of tolerance, listen, false teaching will always cry intolerance. It will always say you are being divisive, you are being unloving, you are being ungracious, because it can only survive when it doesnt get scrutinized. So it cries against any intolerance. It cries against any examination, any scrutiny. Just lets embrace each other; lets love each other; lets put all that behind us.”

    John MacArthur

    …and here are a few more quotes for you to think about.

    “Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:13-16

    I should at this point suggest something: commit yourself to studying the holiness of God. This, of course, only bears fruit if you are truly a born again believer in Christ. And if you are, and if you pursue this, I PROMISE you Shawn, you will grow closer to God, and you will see the massive gulf that separates ‘men’ like Dunn and Crowder from God. Do you notice something about those faithful saints who are contending for the faith once delivered? They are deeply grieved by this blasphemy. Watching this Crowd (pun intended) on youtube isn’t something we should do often, but when we do, it actually hurts. It is all just another fulfillment of end time prophecy. We shouldn’t be surprised at it since the Bible literally talks about these people coming out from among us (1 John 2:18-29)

    “As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” 1 Peter 4:10-11

    These hirelings have no idea what the glory is that they speak about. They equate the glory to something that they can take from God. They are robbers! In all things Christ brought glory to the Father, that we would do the same through the continuing incarnation of Christ in our lives. “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” Galatians 6:7

    And speaking of ‘reap,’ the joy that these people feel is very temporary. When the tares are pulled up from among the wheat and burnt in the fire, this ‘joy’ will simply vaporise (Matthew 13:25). This “Crowd” hardly qualifies as tares though, for tares look almost ‘identical’ to the wheat until they bloom. This Crowd doesn’t even ‘look’ Christian.

  22. Lyn,
    People take themselves so anally serious, they don’t even understand that these guys are just having a good time in the joy of the Lord. Most Christians seem to be sucking on sour lemons, and people need to know that the Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and JOY in the Holy Spirit. Alot of the noises and terminology they use are just fun, prophetic imagery. Every revival in the last couple hundred years had people barking, laughing and doing crazy things (including the revivalists themselves!). Like I said, if anyone actually had the humility to read Crowder’s books, they would be ashamed at how uninformed their own arguments are.

    These guys not trying to make a theology out of pig noises. You’re not going to find anything that is unbiblical in what they do, though granted much of it is “weird” that doesn’t make it “wrong”. These guys know exactly what they are doing. They know that they are intentionally irritating the dry religious order, in order to destroy the real “doctrines of devils.” Every prophet in the Bible did weirder things than these guys. Isaiah walked around naked for a few years. Hosea married a prostitute. Not saying these guys are Isaiah, but God likes to do strange, unexplainable stuff to shake people up and awaken them to spiritual things.

    Most of the stuff you mentioned in your list is just harmless fun. Much of it, Crowder and Ben Dunn never even said, you are attributing it to them from the lips of other people or critics (like the meth anointing, pentegram, etc. By the way, the pentegram thing threw me for a loop too. Then I did some study and realized that for centuries, the pentegram was a CHRISTIAN symbol, with the star points representing the wounds of Christ on the cross. Then the SATANISTS turned it UPSIDE DOWN. These guys know what they are talking about. They are not wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are sheep in wolves clothing, infiltrating modern culture with the gospel.)

    But some things you said are outright lies. If you can show me that they have EVER denied the deity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity, I will give you my house and my car! That is just outright false accusation, and worthy of some repentance.

    Other things you said are just promulgations of the same old criticisms from unlearned men who reject what they don’t understand. For instance: all this talk about “necromancy” ???? Give me a break! In that gravesite video he made, he never once says a single word about communicating with the dead!!

    And in his book, he goes into great detail in discussing that this John Dowie guy had some major flaws. Crowder doesn’t deny that. But Crowder knows how not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. He recognizes that God uses imperfect vessels, and he was at the grave, praying that the same anointing of GOD that was on Dowie’s life would be imparted to those who wanted those same gifts.

    I know that people argue that they have the “appearance of evil” that should be avoided. But I rather think that all these whitewashed religious people look a lot more evil to the world than these guys. They are just avoiding the appearance of dead religion.

    Most of these critics will keep on blasting them without ever reading their books. They look goofy on the outside, but these guys have incredibly deep theology that is sound, Biblical and the fruits of salvations, miracles, restored homes and healthy marriages go to prove it.

  23. It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how outlandish, far-fetched, blasphemous, and utterly antithetical to Christ and holiness some ‘new church practice‘ is, there is always someone out there who will defend it.

    There comes a point when your pearls get trampled under the foot of swine and debating serves no further purpose. (That just so happens to be the topic of DefCon’s next Sermon of the Week. I encourage all defenders of the faith to listen to it coming this Wednesday.)

    This debate is over (as far as I’m concerned it was over before it began). You cannot defend the unholy, profane, and evil behavior (including the taking of God’s name in vain) by saying “they talk about Jesus and preach Jesus.” I’m sure they do. They preach ‘a Jesus‘ just like the Jehovah’s Witnesses preach ‘a Jesus‘ and the Mormons preach ‘a Jesus.” Pick your ‘Jesus.’ There’s a million of them out there; but there’s only one true Jesus Christ, Alpha and Omega, Lord of all.

    I chose to publish one final post on this wickedness entitled The Fruit Of John Crowder and Benjamin Dunn. However, this behavior is so evil that I couldn’t even post one of the videos I intended to with a good conscience.

    If you must see what I’m talking about, you can view it here. But be warned, it is highly blasphemous and there is NOTHING Shawn, RiverGuy or any other defender of this evil can say to justify this.

    And the whole “you gotta read all their books” defense holds no water. I don’t need to read the Koran and all of Mohammad’s writings to know he was a false prophet, any more than I need to read the Book of Mormon and all of Joseph Smith’s writings to know he was a false prophet, any more than I need to read Crowder and Dunn to know they’re false prophets. C&D’s actions, behavior, and fruit are all available in the public domain to judge.

    Not long ago I predicted that Todd Bentley would fall and he certainly did (like all false prophets). I too expect that Crowder and Dunn will soon fall as well and those chasing them and ‘the next big thing’ will simply find some other abhorrent behavior to tenaciously cling to and defend as being ‘from God.’

    We shouldn’t be surprised at any of this, though. The wicked mockers and those who heartily approve of them were spoken of long ago:

    . . . being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. – Romans 1:29-32

    – The Pilgrim

  24. Pilgrim~Amen!
    The video you referenced to is absolutely disgusting, if any dare to defend this blasphemy, may God have mercy on them.
    To all who insist we read their books, may I suggest this; read the ONLY book that contains absolute truth…the Holy Bible.

    “There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” Proverbs 14:12

  25. I agree Pilgrim. There comes a time when nothing more can be said. People will still defend evil no matter what. It is casting pearl before swine, and obviously Shawn and RIVERGUY love the deception. One day you guys will stand before God as guilty as these blasphemers, unless you repent. I grieve that my precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is treated in such a way. I can’t watch any of those videos they make me sick.

  26. John Crowder and “familiar spirits”
    ===========================

    Since scripture ALWAYS asserts DRUNKENNESS as UNRIGHTEOUS, then all drunken manifestations which are claimed to be from God are actually a MOCKERY of scripture, a mockery of Jesus Christ, and a mockery of the Holy Spirit.

    Prov 21:17 He who LOVES PLEASURE will become poor; whoever LOVES WINE and oil will never be rich.

    1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and BE SOBER. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day BE SOBER, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

    Since John Crowder and those in agreement with him are being affected by REAL SPIRITUAL POWERS, and since their manifestations contradict REPEATING SCRIPTURAL COUNSEL against drunkenness and loss of self control, then the spiritual power must be from Satan and his minions called “familiar spirits”, or demons.

    These are the spirit guides of New Age religion, the occult, and Roman Catholicism (eg. Mariology).

    Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have FAMILIAR SPIRITS, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

    “Familiar Spirits” – see http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=familiar&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no

    John Crowder and those who follow his perverted ways have FALLEN IN LOVE WITH A COUNTERFEIT “angel of light”, “the God of this age”, and may have the same destiny:

    2 Cor 4:4 The GOD OF THIS AGE has BLINDED THE MINDS of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    Spiritual drunkenness BLINDS THE MINDS of BELIEVERS!

    2 Cor 11:14-15 Satan himself MASQUERADES as an ANGEL OF LIGHT. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    Rev 20:10 And the devil, who DECEIVED THEM, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Playing around with counterfeit “angels of light” might be BLISS and ECSTASY now, but if not repented of will lead to REJECTION by the Most High God FOREVER.

    The “big party” will occur in heaven AFTER WE DIE, not now (see Rev 19:9).

    Scripture asserts we now have SERIOUS WORK to do while remaining firmly SOBER.

    2 Tim 4:3-5 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, KEEP YOUR HEAD in all situations, endure hardship, DO THE WORK of an evangelist, discharge ALL THE DUTIES of your ministry.

    People who turn up DRUNK at work GET FIRED.

    People who GET DRUNK with “familiar spirits” from Lucifer will GET FIRED into the lake of fire, if they don’t REPENT prior.

    John Crowder’s “HEAVY, WEIGHTY, drunken glory” may be a premonition of the WEIGHT OF A MILLSTONE:

    Luke 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a MILLSTONE TIED AROUND HIS NECK than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

    John Crowder’s mocking ministry is not to the unsaved, as they would be repulsed by his bizarre acts which are IDENTICAL TO MENTAL ILLNESS.

    John’s ministry is to cause CORRUPTION OF EXISTING CHRISTIANS by encouraging them to mock God with improper revelry, and form relationships with Satan’s minions, “familiar spirits”, and so reclaim Christians for the Devil.

    1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    Matthew 24:10-13 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS will appear and DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM to the end will be saved.

    Getting DRUNK and FALLING DOWN is the opposite of STANDING FIRM.

    The “slain in the spirit” (falling down) phenomena is not from God of Gen 1:1, it is from “god of this age” 2 Cor 4:4
    The only exception is falling down after being killed by God for wrongdoing (eg. Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11). Slain means being killed.

    Instead of teaching people to fear the Lord, John Crowder is teaching them to treat God as an object to be indulged, like a prostitute for sex lust and drunken dissipation.

    It is deception and blasphemy to associate these immoralities with “the joy of the Lord” mentioned in the Bible.

    Rom 13:12-14 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us CAST OFF the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us WALK PROPERLY, as in the day, NOT IN REVELRY AND DRUNKENNESS, NOT IN LEWDNESS AND LUST, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

    Manifestations from “familiar spirits” might feel good, but IMMORAL ACTIVITIES always do FEEL GOOD, such as drunkenness, drug taking, and fornication.

    Following John Crowder’s ways is spiritual immorality.

    The only response to this situation is either accepting the certainty of DAMNATION to Hell, or REPENTING while there is still opportunity.

    Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the VILE, the murderers, the SEXUALLY IMMORAL, those who PRACTICE MAGIC ARTS, the IDOLATERS and all LIARS–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    Proverbs 14:12, 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death

    Psalm 111:10-112:1 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.
    Praise the LORD. Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who finds great delight in his commands.

  27. wow, some of these posts are hilarious to read.. Your Jesus seems to be pretty angry, judgemental, and full of hate.. I love how christians can take any one verse from the bible and total twist it out of context, using it for there own purposes. I think as long as Jesus Christ is being preached which he is by these guys, u should all stop complaining and accusing and spend a little more time doing likewise.. If you look at any preacher long enough you can find something you wont like or agree with, if that closes you off from there whole message you will miss out on a lot..
    Learn how to eat the meat and spit out the bones guys really.. its much more effective then running around scared calling ministry u dont agree with demonic..
    but your right it is a waste of time to argue, which is were mr bentley got in trouble trying to defend himself.. at the end of the day Jesus defends us and to defend yourself is to fall short of trusting in his ability to do so..
    bless you guys cont to seek truth

  28. Dear Onlooker,

    Thanks for bringing up an important subject when you said, I love how christians can take any one verse from the bible and total twist it out of context, using it for there own purposes.

    So I ask you, please tell us kindly which verse from the Bible did anyone on this thread “twist it out of context, using it for there own purposes.“?

    Also, while you’re at it, would you be so kind as to be the first to provide us a Bible verse justifying Benjamin and Dunn’s behavior and the behavior of their followers, including the blaspheming of God’s name by melding “Jehovah” and “Marijuana.”

    Also, can you find me a verse that justifies this video and this video?

    Thanks.
    – The Pilgrim

  29. I saw a few of these videos, and honestly, they make me sad.

    How can people turn the Holy Spirit into a drug? Heretical and tragic…..

  30. Well this looks like fun and its ok to have fun with God cause God is not american n not asian n not human to be put in a box like all other religion.. God does wot he wants n how he wants n does not need your approval in wot he wants to do. Hes ways are not like yours and his thoughts are not like yours and he uses the foolish things of the earth to shame the wise.. and so he does not need your wisdom to defend himself from anyone that speaks in his name. He can defend himself because you are called to fight against spiritual things in heavenly places not in the flesh. So maybe you need to just pray for wisdom n direction before you point your one finger cause four more is pointing at you. Thank you!!!

  31. Jon Jon,

    When you point your judgmental finger at The Pilgrim, you have four more pointing back at you.

    How is reenacting sinful behavior all right with you? Taking drugs is a sin, and making light of sin is wrong.

    It’s clear that you have not studied the Bible’s teaching on judging. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 says, “But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

    It’s a good thing to stand up for the truth and call sin for what it is. Clearly God’s ways aren’t your ways. But Christians have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).

    Bill

  32. Bill we shudn’t be judging others, best leave your complaint to the Lord. He is the ultimate judge. Bible says do not judge or you will be judged.. You only reap wot you sow.. this 2 guys will only reap wot they sow.. leave the fighting to the Lord he can defend himself.. he is not a statue that you shud come n defend him.. by the way this 2 guys are not smoking realy drugs… they just wana break religiousty out of ppls mindset cause its a stronghold. God does not like to be treated in a corner cause he is the tribe of the lion of Judah n cannot be box.. if you look at the video properly they very provokitive cause they want ppl to be real n stop tryin to be spiritual but be honest with yourselves.. n they not endorsing drugs at all.. wots so wrong with havin fun with God.. better to get high with him then real drugs.. so time to have fun bill cause pittyness leads to lifelessness!!!!

  33. Jon Jon,

    Don’t you see the irony in your comments? When you say someone else is doing something wrong, I agree that you’re judging them. Pilgrim judged the actions of the people in the video as blasphemy. When you attempt to chastise the Pilgrim’s actions, that’s you judging Pilgrim. Don’t you get it? Why is it bad when Pilgrim judges, but OK when you judge?

    Every line of reasoning you use to say the Pilgrim is wrong can be turned back on yourself. While Pilgrim is judging with righteous judgment (John 7:24), you’re judging hypocritically. You point out something that Pilgrim is doing without realizing that you’re doing the same thing yourself. Your type of hypocritical judgment is the type that Jesus condemned in Matthew 7. Pull the plank out of your eye, and then, maybe, you can judge the Pilgrim.

    We’re all commanded to judge in the verses I pointed out to you in 1 Corinthians 5. Do you not care about what the Bible says? Why do you continue to offer rationalization for not judging. You’re going against the Bible when you attempt to do that.

    As far as what the guys in this video are doing, it is not funny. It’s just stupid, childish and evil. Maybe they’re trying to cater to junior high boys. Are you in junior high?

    Are there any other sins you consider to be funny? You need to repent of your hypocritical judging, and begin judging righteously. You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

    Are you born again?

    Bill

  34. It is a good idea for any Christian to pass through the JUDGEMENT WARNING from scripture to a brother they think is sinning, as that can lead to their repentance to save them from disaster.

    Misbehaviour in churches is often defended with the statement “don’t put God in a box”.
    Actually, God IS in a box of PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS, and the Bible defines what righteousness is.
    Some scriptures do this by describing the opposite of righteousness, such as the 10 commandments.

    Scripture ALWAYS asserts drunkenness as unrighteous.

    There is not a “Godly version” of drunkenness any more than there is a godly version of stealing, adultery or lying.

    The following phrases come from John Crowder sermons, most from one of January 2007, and whilst they could be termed “Crowderspeak”, I suggest it is better to name them from their source “Luciferspeak”.

    It may benefit readers being AWARE of the phrases, as they have propagated out through the antichrist network of false prophets and false apostles that Crowder is connected to.
    They can serve as ALERTS when they pop up in sermons elsewhere to warn it may be TAINTED with deception.

    Jesus Christ WARNED against being affected by messages tainted with POISONOUS “yeast”:
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%2016:6-12;&version=31;

    Gal 5:9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”

    “Luciferspeak” via John Crowder: “divine consolations”, “ecstasies and manifestations of God’s presence”, “enthusiasms, fits, jerks, exercises”, “Minister of the New Wine”, “extreme rest and contemplation”, “soaking or practicing God’s Presence”.
    “pleasures of God”, “a state of divine love to be eagerly desired”, “I am also seated in the wine room”, “I am already in the treasure room of Heaven”, “we can continually experience the ecstasy of His presence”, “a continual lifestyle of supernatural manifestation”.
    “the blind fury of faith”, “ligature” “overmastered and overcome by His love”, “chaotic face of the deep”, “A warring lover” “secret places”, “dwell in the Secret Place with God”, “mystical” “full possession”, “Glory realm”.
    “militant bride”, “fiery, passionate authority”, “glorious supernatural ecstasy”, “drunken joy”, “furnace of divine jealousy”, “delightful flame”, “ferocity within you”, “wildfire of God’s Spirit”, “dread champions”, “holy terror”.
    “generation of blazing lamps walking in the spirit of Elijah”, “wild ferocity”, “overwhelming joy and an exotic discovery of the realms of supernatural authority and experience”, “Bizarre miracles”, “God’s ecstatic, intoxicating Spirit”.
    “God is messing up our meetings”, “His crazy wildfire that knows no boundaries”, “Let us move on to full possession”, “holy violence”, “supernatural force”, “sons of golden oil”, “whose words have authority to release plagues into the earth, call down fire to consume their adversaries and shut up the heavens”.
    “boldness and aggression”, “you will become a holy terror”, “violent passion in the heart”, “Spirit-driven juggernauts”, “possessed by the God of pleasure”, “Christ, who sits at the right hand of the Father, is the good Pleasure of God incarnate”.
    “river of pleasure that flows from Him”, “burning passion of Christ whose flames carry an intensity without end”, “infinite intensity of pleasure”, “The loving pleasure of God”, “intimate, holy bliss they have tasted”, “utterly addicted to this God of ecstasy”
    “raging flame of love”, “living firebrands”, “The wildfire has made them indestructible”, “You are the garden of the Lord”, “God is breaking His church”, “massive outbreaks of the Glory”, “When Jesus possesses all of us”.
    “dangerously intoxicating”, “If you begin to enjoy the pleasures of your supernatural inheritance, people will grow very jealous”, “Keep getting whacked by the wildfire”, “Holy Spirit’s bliss”, “If you start getting drunk in the Spirit, for instance, and someone gets offended – you need to drink more, not less”.
    “God is coming in a way that is loud, violent and inexplicable”, “The manifestation of the Spirit in the coming days will be rather obnoxious”, “ah, the bliss! Prepare to discover your aching heart’s desire”, “God is waiting on us to bring revival”, “Jesus tore Heaven open on the cross”, “fire starter”, “wild-eyed, buck naked Isaiah sort”.
    “God is too wild, expressive, emotional and brilliantly enjoyable”, “God actually wants to intentionally release the most riotous demonstration of His Spirit”, “Jesus is about to reveal Himself as the great Offense”, “utter rebellion to the systems of the world and social religion”, “Revolution. Unfettered wildness.”

    John Crowder’s FLAME OF PASSION for Lucifer (via the false Christ he follows) will burn out in due course because the human body cannot sustain such an intrusion any more than an alchoholic who GIVES THEMSELVES COMPLETELY over to the ADDICTION of a diet almost exclusively the POISONOUS chemical.
    John Crowder will be a burnt out shell, and may need the same treatment as one with mental illness, apart from any other consequence of God’s wrath for mocking scripture and the Holy Spirit.

    The big concern then will the person that Lucifer uses to replace him, and there are heaps of volunteers in training for him to select from.

    The fruit of Todd Bentley’s ministry is adultery, lying, loving money, false teaching, and false prophecy.

    Wise Christians everywhere will REPENT quickly of any involvement in these dangerous liasons with Satan’s minions, “familiar spirits”.

    Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have FAMILIAR SPIRITS, neither seek after WIZARDS, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

  35. Dear Billcnz:

    All I can say to that is, “Amen, amen, and amen!”

    – The Pilgrim

  36. jon jon, yes God can defend Himself. We are called to defend the faith. ” Beloved while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.” Jude 4. It is every christians duty to contend earnestly for the faith. If we love Father God and His Word it is something we will want to do anyway. A lot of us have found the truth through sites such as these. “

  37. >> I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith

    Because we still live in the realm of good and evil, then being an authentic witness of the truth includes giving critique against falsehood.
    The Bible predicts the majority following evil rather than good:

    Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and ONLY A FEW find it.

    Any adequate challenge against John Crowder type ministry and teachings will by nature HAVE TO appear as a TEARING DOWN, similar to why the corrupt works of a drug dealer SHOULD BE TORN DOWN.

    Because they cause harm.

    The worker remains, even if his EVIL WORKS are demolished.
    In the Old Testament era both were demolished simultaneously by stoning to death. In these times simply warning others of reasons to not participate can effect a demolishing of the harm. Warning the worker may effect the same.

    Hebrews 10:28-31 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    “trampled the Son of God under foot”.
    How about John Crowder’s “smoking baby Jesus”?
    Seems like blatant desecration to me.

    YouTube is full of “Bible snorters”, “Drinking from the breasts of heaven”, “Drunken Glory” manifesters, all being promoted by John Crowder type ministers.

    When people discern and disassociate themselves from this stuff, they are passing an important test.

    It is a gross insult of “the Spirit of grace” (Holy Spirit) to associate him with manifestations like mental illness, such as confused/irrational thinking, vibrating, twitching, groaning, shrieking, roaring, gibberish speech and sound effects, animal acts – dogs, snakes chickens, lions, pigs, etc., staggering about, falling over, uncontrollable/irrational laughter.

    These are either effects of the flesh or evil spirits, but not the Holy Spirit.
    They are the manifestations occurring through Toronto “Blessing”, Todd Bentley, John Crowder, Benjamin Dunn, and many others.

    2 Cor 10:5 We DEMOLISH ARGUMENTS AND EVERY PRETENSION that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

    People who follow blasphemous deceptions WILL end up in Hell if they never change.

    Some have been deceived, and exposing the false ministries gives them the option of an ESCAPE ROUTE.

    There is grace for their repentance, as long as their hearts are not too deeply in love with the counterfeit “angel of light” Lucifer (2Cor 11:14)

    John Crowder has prophesied over himself “get whacked, stay whacked, and never look back”.
    That looks like he has shut out the option of repentance for himself.

    Not good.

    Jude 1:21-25 Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
    Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear–hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
    To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy–to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

  38. Time for the witches
    ================

    Now that some of the wizards/warlocks have been critiqued (John Crowder, Todd Bentley), it would be fair to have a look at some of the WITCHES who are infiltrating the churches.

    One woman causing harm is songwriter and WORSHIP LEADER Joann McFatter, who tours the world with others in John Crowder type circuits. Her worship methods and theology make her a New Age worshipper of the “fallen angel” Lucifer.

    Check out her web site http://www.joannmcfatter.com . The home page has “mouse over” SECRET PORTAL hyperlinks, including a quote by Albert Einstein, from the hooded robed figure (spirit guide?).

    Q. Why would you quote Albert Einstein when we have God’s word in the Bible?

    A. Because you are seeking OTHER WORDS to support a COUNTERFEIT.

    Check Joann McFatter song lyrics http://www.ap0s7le.com/list/artist/JoAnn_McFatter/ and you will see the identical Luciferspeak that John Crowder uses.

    If these lyrics get into congregation worship, there could be a problem.

    Some may be worshipping Lucifer, others Jesus Christ, all from the same song!
    How can this be sorted out?

    Joann McFatter is hooked up with Paul Keith and Wanda Davis “White Dove Ministries” http://www.whitedoveministries.org/

    They seek and promote occultic New Age pursuit of ticklings and teachings, from secret place spiritual forces, and angelic encounters.

    This is seduction by EXPERIENTIAL SENSATIONS to be DECEIVED WITH FALSE WORDS from Lucifer.

    Don’t go there.

    Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have FAMILIAR SPIRITS, and after WIZARDS, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

    2 Thes 2:9-15 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of COUNTERFEIT MIRACLES, SIGNS AND WONDERS, and in EVERY SORT OF EVIL THAT DECEIVES those who are perishing. They perish because they REFUSED TO LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a POWERFUL DELUSION so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
    But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through BELIEF IN THE TRUTH. He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, STAND FIRM and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

    STAND FIRM – don’t STAGGER ABOUT or FALL DOWN from a DRUNKEN STUPOR of CONFUSION coming from demonic ministries such as what Joann McFatter, Patricia King, John Crowder, Todd Bentley and others like them currently practice.

    They should repent.

    2 Thes 2:16-17 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every GOOD DEED and WORD.

    The Holy Spirit is the AUTHOR OF THE BIBLE through guiding its contributing writers.
    Therefore, if you want to “walk in the Spirit”, just read the Bible.

    You will be perfectly safe there.

    It is God’s word.

  39. John Crowder’s God of Chaos
    =======================
    Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    John Crowder uses a different translation: “He hovered over the CHAOTIC face of the deep”.
    This BREAKS the rest of scripture, which asserts God as a God of PERFECTION and ORDER.
    Neither KJV nor NIV use “chaos”, and these have general acceptance for consistent reliability.

    CHAOS is a manifestation of RANDOM PROCESSES, INCOMPETENCE, or EVIL, which are attributes of the Devil, definitely NOT God.
    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(Warhammer) about chaos power.

    God the creator has the attributes of order, intelligence, wisdom, PERFECT righteousness, etc.
    A partially built computer is NOT in a chaotic state.
    It might appear chaotic, and be incapable of functioning, but it is a PARTLY BUILT STAGE of INTELLIGENT DESIGN.
    To assert that ANY stage of God’s works are chaotic, is to BREAK SCRIPTURE, which in its entirety is TIGHTLY BOUND around God being PERFECT and ORDERED.
    The term “chaotic” is a foundation of the religious belief in macro evolution (all life evolved through RANDOM PROCESSES over millions of years).

    Whilst the Bible asserts God gives us FREE WILL to believe WHATEVER WE WANT, it cautions against believing foolishness, which macro evolution is, because it contradicts LITERAL acceptance of Gen 1:1 which is the foundation of the rest of the Bible.

    “Chaos” is a word popular in the occult, eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic , and this is a hint about John Crowder for associating it with the spirit that guides him (not the Holy Spirit).

    The dictionary definition shows more light on CHAOS and its implications: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chaos

    The Bible presents a choice to follow either:
    1. The god of chaos – fallen angel (Devil – Luke 10:18), “god of this age” (2 Cor 4:4), “prince of this world” (John 16:11)
    or
    2. The God Of Order – the God who created the world specified in Genesis 1:1

    A graphic demonstration of the contrast between these two, and a change from CHAOS to ORDER is the account of Jesus Christ delivering a man possessed by multiple demons, which went into pigs; see http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%205:2-20;&version=31;
    The conclusion of the man’s deliverance (fully clothed and in his RIGHT MIND) was “And all the people were AMAZED” (v 20).

    The conclusion from observing John Crowder’s CHAOTIC mental illness / drugged/drunken simulating manifestations is more like “and all the people are DISGUSTED”.

    John Crowder’s ministry probably serves the Devil’s intention to get the demons out of THE PIGS, and BACK INTO THE PEOPLE.

    The following article appeared in The Times, 11 May 1996:
    WOMAN LEADS CHURCH BOYCOTT IN ROW OVER EVANGELICAL PIG-SNORTING
    A WOMAN has walked out of her church and is holding services in her living room, because she says she cannot bring herself to “snort like a pig and bark like a dog” on a Church of England course. Angie Golding, 50, claims she was denied confirmation unless she signed up for the Alpha course, which she says is a “brainwashing” exercise where participants speak in tongues, make animal noises and then fall over.
    (from http://newsletters.cephasministry.com/alpha_fatal_attraction.html )

    In regards to the ministry of John Crowder and others like him:
    2 Peter 2:12-22 But these men BLASPHEME in matters they do not understand. They are like BRUTE BEASTS, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of PLEASURE is to CAROUSE in BROAD DAYLIGHT. They are blots and blemishes, REVELING IN THEIR PLEASURES while they feast with you. With EYES FULL OF ADULTERY, they never stop sinning; they SEDUCE THE UNSTABLE; they are experts in greed–an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and WANDERED OFF to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey–a beast without speech–who spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the PROPHET’S MADNESS. These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they MOUTH EMPTY, BOASTFUL WORDS and, by APPEALING TO THE LUSTFUL DESIRES OF SINFUL HUMAN NATURE, they ENTICE PEOPLE who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are SLAVES OF DEPRAVITY–for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her WALLOWING IN THE MUD.”

    Don’t be surprised if DOG barking, PIG SNORTING, SCREECHING, and MUD WALLOWING become another of John Crowder’s manifestations.

  40. Prov 24:11-12 Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, “But we knew nothing about this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?

    The chasing of euphoric experiences, whether through alchohol, drugs, sex, or mysticism sets people towards psychological disturbances (harmful addictions) such as bipolar mental condition, which produce MASSIVE HIGH, then crashing down to a MASSIVE LOW of severe depression.

    I know of 2 Christian people in New Zealand some years ago who deliberately pursued improper spiritual things like Toronto “Blessing” and subsequently committed suicide. One from car exhaust poisoning, the other hanging by rope (after first going into an adulterous relationship).

    What if the manifestations won’t stop?

    What if John Crowder decides he would like a REST from the mental illness /drugged / drunken manifesting?

    At the moment John may be able to confine his manifestations to church fellowships and places/times of choosing. However if they become completely uncontrollable, eg. occur in public places, in aeroplanes, in public schools, community meetings, police stations, then the civil authorities may FORCE HIM to live in a MENTAL ASYLUM.
    Mental asylums have MANIFESTING John the Baptists, Elijah’s, messiah’s, etc.

    In mocking the Holy Spirit, John Crowder could lose his PROTECTION with the risk of IRREVERSIBLY being overtaken by evil powers.

    John repeatedly asserts that the drunken glory is “HEAVY AND WEIGHTY”, which could become a TIRESOME BURDEN.

    Isaiah 24:7 The new wine dries up and the vine withers; all the merrymakers GROAN.

    If he stops co-operating with the “familiar spirits” they might retaliate by inciting HEAVY DUTY DEPRESSION (even suicidal), and incite PHYSICAL LUSTS (eg. for power/sex/money).

    These considerations should cause FEAR in the heart of anyone who has allowed themselves to receive any impartation that produces ANY unbiblical manifestation, such as Toronto “Blessing”, as they have received something from Satan’s minions, “familiar spirits”.

    The FEAR should drive them to URGENT repentance.

    Isaiah 55:6-7 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

    Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth FEAR the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him.

    Psalm 33:18 …. the eyes of the LORD are on those who FEAR HIM, on those whose hope is in his unfailing love.

    More scripture on “Fear of the Lord” http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=fear%20of%20the%20lord&version1=31&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no

    Scripture also states God handing people over to STRONG DELUSIONS because they DO NOT LOVE THE TRUTH.

    2 Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they REFUSED TO LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason GOD SENDS THEM A POWERFUL DELUSION so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Spiritual drunkenness is probably ADDICTIVE like physical drunkenness, but worse as it comes from evil SPIRITUAL POWERS rather than chemicals in a bottle.

    John Crowder has prophesied over himself “Get whacked, stay whacked, and never look back”.

    Is this reversible, or is he on a road of NO RETURN?

    It is better to emphasise REPENTANCE rather than speculate whether a person is IRREVERSIBLY condemned, but scripture warns about things that lead to CONDEMNATION. Scripture recommends AVOIDING CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP with people who are involved in improper things. Better to be safe than sorry because eternity is a long time.

    1 Corinthians 15:33-34 DO NOT BE DECEIVED: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

    DON’T be deceived by John Crowder’s false teaching and bad example.
    DON’T get drunk. Awake to righteousness.

    Whilst there is an assurance: Romans 8:1 There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

    There WILL be condemnation for those who follow a FALSE CHRIST and walk according to flesh experiences from “familiar spirits” (Satan’s minions).

    Hebrews 6:4-6 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace

    It is DEADLY SERIOUS and URGENT for Christians to REPENT of ANY involvement in improper spiritual experiences.

    We should stay firmly SOBER, and just get peace and joy from reading and obeying the Bible.

    The Bible contains God’s word, THE TRUTH for our SECURITY.

    Running off to “secret places” to get ticklings and teachings from angelic beings is chasing novelty and flesh experience, rather than truth.

  41. I have a lot of friends that are really into this ministry, and I have been very torn as to what to believe. I have been saved for 8+ years, but feel like I am still a baby in a lot of ways. So, anyway I did some research and came upon this page, thanks to everyone for your truth and guidance. I just hope to find a way to show my friends the truth… It will be hard though, but I know that their hearts are not to be mislead, and I appreciate your prayers, because I am grieved for them…
    Thanks

  42. Dont you know that you are Gods?

    So basically it’s junk that the joy od the lord is being transported?
    Dont be a pharisee and miss the move that God is doing.
    We have access into eden and when gods glory shows up our bodys flip out! Joy erupts, and sickness and death are lossed!
    haha! Its good news!

  43. Dear Matthew:

    Please support the following points of your comment with actual Scripture:

    1). That any man is a God.

    2). That the joy of the Lord is “transported.”

    3). We have access to Eden.

    4). When God’s glory shows up “our bodies flip out.”

    Thanks.

    – The Pilgrim

  44. Seek a snake, get a snake. Knock on the Devil’s door, get welcomed in.
    =======================================================

    Dont you know that you are Gods?

    We have access into eden and when gods glory shows up our bodys flip out! Joy erupts, and sickness and death are lossed!

    Those are just foolish unbiblical statements to encourage people to misbehave.

    The Holy Spirit is not a prostitute sent from God to tickle people whenever they want.

    Some people report being on “cloud 9” with the Holy Spirit, but if they don’t wake up and repent, they could end up on “Cloud 666 the lake of fire” for actually playing around with familiar spirits (Satan’s minions):

    Rev 21:8 but the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

    Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

    The Bible forbids spirit channeling.
    The Holy Spirit cannot be “channeled” into people, because he never takes orders from men.

    The Holy Spirit is strictly a servant of God the father to fulfil God’s agenda, not men’s.

    Anyone who tries to address the Holy Spirit directly is acting improperly.

    Notice how all the false teachers address the “Holy Spirit” directly (Benny Hinn, etc.).
    Well it won’t be the Holy Spirit, as he doesn’t take orders from men.

    If people attempt to control the Holy Spirit by channeling him into people, then “familiar spirits” (demons masquerading as friendly) may turn up to cooperate with improper intentions and practices.

    Also, if people seek confirmation about something that the Bible has already specified as wrong, then lying spirits may turn up to encourage their willingness to be deceived.
    For example, people seeking confirmation about involvement in fornication, adultery, homosexuality.

    This is how lying spirits and occult power have come into Christian churches.
    People have asked for them to come in by following unbiblical practices and seeking unbiblical counsel.

    Matthew 7:7-11 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
    “Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

    If you ask for a snake, then you may get a snake! If you knock on the Devil’s door, he may welcome you in!
    If you ask to be tickled (given pleasurable sensations), then only the Devil will comply, because the Bible never encourages us to ask God for pleasurable sensations:

    Rom 13:14 make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

    Some people seek spiritual ticklings for entertainment, or relief from their depression, just like the use of drugs and alcohol.

    People should read the bible to know the full counsel of God, then take care what they ask for, what doors they knock on, and what they receive from others.

    John 16:13-15 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

    If anyone wants to be filled with the Holy Spirit, then they should simply read the bible a lot, seek to understand it, then follow its counsel, because the Holy Spirit is the author of the bible through guiding its contributing writers.
    The Holy Spirit will assist good biblical interpretation if people genuinely seek good interpretation.

    If people want to be deceived, then they will be deceived.

    Know your own motives.

    If you love the truth, then you should also be involved in challenging falsehood.

    2 Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Unholy spirits are ready and willing to tickle and teach the gullible, the ignorant, and those with impure motives. Especially church leaders with ambitions for money and control, often hiding this behind “building God’s kingdom”.

    Christian church leaders have been practicing or condoning Kundalini spirit channeling, resulting in all the manifestations of mental illness or drunken/drugged.

    These activities are turning churches into Satanic covens because they are mockeries and blasphemies against God.

    It is not good for church leaders to be encouraging or condoning this.

    Any leader who has practiced these ways should make a public repentance and turn away from pride, sorcery, and service to a false Christ.

    Then start ministry afresh serving the true Jesus Christ.

    This kind of radical repentance and change is the true fulfillment of God’s grace:

    Rev 18:4-5 “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.”

    Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

  45. God is in a “box”. You should be too.
    ============================

    People are saying “don’t put God in a box” as an attempt to defend the practices of people like John Crowder, Ben Dunn, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Toronto “Blessing” type manifestations, etc.

    Well, actually God has limited himself inside a “box”.

    It is a box called perfect truth and righteousness.

    Staying within truth is a limitation that people choose to follow, in being faithful to the God of Genesis 1:1.

    Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

    God’s word the Bible is a “box” he wants us to limit ourselves by.

    If you don’t keep reading the Bible, then you could stray off the path (go “outside the box”) due to other influences.

    That is why we should be very careful to know Bible counsel and follow it diligently:

    Lev 18:4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God.

    These laws include moral laws that apply through both the old and new covenant eras.

    The New Testament warns of moral laws that if violated will lead to damnation, eg.

    1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (NKJV)

    The definition of sin is violation of Gods laws.

    The New Testament warns of the devil as being “lawless”, which is like operating “outside the box”:

    2 Thes 2:8-9 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.

    In New Zealand there is an energy drink called “Demon” ( http://www.demonenergy.co.nz ) and its motto is “No Limits, No Laws”.

    That promotes living “outside the box” of moral limitations.

    2 John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

    “Running ahead” is another example of operating “outside the box” of Biblical teaching.

    Do you love truth, or do you love delusions and fantasy?

    2 Thes 2:11-12 …… God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Not loving the truth leads to delusions, and fantasy, or “going outside the box”.

    In churches it is popular to encourage people to “follow their dreams”.

    This could be nothing more than encouraging people to follow delusions and fantasy, as well as coveting for mammon and “worldly success”.

    “Worldy” entertainment is mostly about pleasure from delusions, such as indulgence with drugs and alcohol, computerised virtual reality, movies and television.

    Being a disciple of the true Jesus Christ (not the false Christ of people like John Crowder) includes intellectual decisions to limit yourself within God’s counsel, and therefore to “stay within the box”, when others may be wandering far and wide.

    Prov 17:24 A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool’s eyes wander to the ends of the earth.

    All forms of sexual immorality are “outside the box” of God’s created design: faithfulness inside marriage between a man and woman.

    John Crowder is a promoter of pleasure and bliss, which are delusions of the flesh from going “outside the box” of repeating Biblical counsel.

    He has gone beyond the constraints of truth, the limitations specified or implied in the Bible.

    Implied limitations are things the Bible doesn’t specifically mention, but you may be tempted to do.
    For example, wanting the Holy Spirit to give you a “tickles of bliss” to make you feel better, if you are having a bad day or are feeling bored.

    John Crowder and others practicing like him are operating in the same realm as the devil, who also operates ”outside the box” of truth.

    They are operating in the realm of lies, blasphemy, and lawlessness:

    John 8:44 …… the devil… He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    John Crowder and like are dangerous company to keep, or to even defend, because it shows you either don’t know the truth, or don’t care about the truth, which indirectly means you don’t love the true Jesus Christ who has truth written against his name:

    John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth and the life.”

    Keep away from false ministers like John Crowder, Ben Dunn, Todd Bentley and Benny Hinn because they are promoting false Christs through their false teaching and false ministry:

    1 Cor 15:33-34 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God–I say this to your shame.

    Prov 23:23 Buy the truth and do not sell it; get wisdom, discipline and understanding.

    Running around in a spiritual manifesting stupor like the drugged/drunken/mentally ill (eg. all of John Crowder’s antics) is the opposite of Biblical counsel, and therefore blasphemy to state it is caused by the Holy Spirit.

    Isaiah 24:5-7 The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left. The new wine dries up and the vine withers; all the merrymakers groan.

    Take heed John Crowder, and all who participate in his improper ways.

  46. ~ I feel compelled to drop a name here: Dr. Jack Taylor.

    The church I was a part of for a decade was lead by a pretty decent man. He was really good friends with Dr. Jack Taylor.

    I recall some time in 2001 or 2002, Dr. Taylor came and preached in the AM service of this church. What I recall most vividly is him closing his eyes and encouraging the church people to chant with him the phrase “Kingdom Now” in a soft, monotone voice.

    I recall being very, very wary and creeped out by this.

    Thankfully, my Sunday School teacher there was a wise, retired Reverend. Not only did he call this practice for what it was, but because he did so (and taught his class and Bible study about the World not actually ending), he was “asked” to step down from teaching anything within the church again.

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