by John Morris, Ph.D.
What if all life evolved from a common ancestor by means of gradual changes as Darwin suggested? What evidence would we expect to find?
Certainly we would expect to find the fossilized remains of the myriads of ancestral creatures which lived and died over the millenia. At least some of the intermediate forms would have been fossilized. Remains of many varieties of present creatures have been found, including some extinct varieties, but the true in-between forms bridging gaps still elude us. Abundant soft-bodied remains have been found, so the conditions for preservation would always somewhere have existed. Why can’t we find those important fossils which document evolution?
We might also expect to find evolution still occurring today. Why does it seem to have stopped? Geologists think the present time is marked by rapid change; environments are changing, so why are living things not changing? They are unquestionably adapting, but this is not by acquiring new genetic traits as required by evolution. Mutations frequently occur, which damage existing genes, some more than others, but nowhere do we observe new genetic information arise by random mutation. Evolution of any basic type into another would require millions of innovative, helpful mutations which add new information to the genome, but these are nowhere to be seen. Instead of new types, we observe misfits and extinction, the opposite of evolution. Natural selection can only select between variants, it cannot act on its own to create novel types, and certainly is not an intelligent force driving innovation.
We would also expect to discover a universal trend in science which leads to more complexity in nature, paving the way for an increase in genetic content. Instead we discover the universal second law of science, which invariably points toward a degradation of quality in every duplication of information, such as in reproduction, and more randomness in every unguided process. The complexity of life forms is so unimaginably great that we must account for it, and random changes in the face of a universal law can hardly be the answer.
At the least we should find a mechanism for evolution firmly in place. Mutation and natural selection are often cited, but these are deteriorative and conservative, not innovative and thoughtful. A theory of everything which has no mechanism is a weak theory indeed.
Thus we do not find the expected evidence that evolution of basic types has taken place. Surely we can be excused for looking elsewhere.
Dr. John D. Morris is the President of the Institute for Creation Research.
Pilgrim
thejunglemissionary
Bill
Manfred
abidingthroughgrace
Chris Hohnholz
Religionist’s cloud over what the scriptures say in order to strengthen their own beliefs. Jesus Christ himself said that he became a master worker. In order to ‘become’ master of anything, you must practice. This latest attempt, according to scriptural evidence, took 42,000 yrs. of earth’s 5 billion year history.(six 7,000 yr. creation days) The arguments pertaining to evolution or creation has become dogmatic, with both sides entrenching on what they wish to believe.
There were at least 6 events in the geological records that indicate global extinctions. Yet there are those that argue that certain creatures lived through these events. Ice ball earths, cataclysmic collisions with asteroids. After each extinction event, the evidence points to an explosion of new life forms.
Why couldn’t the master worker erase his blackboard earth, and just recreate those designs that he felt were successful. The scriptures indicate that JC created all things with us in mind.
Instead of linear thinking of the progression of homonids on this planet, why not a trial and error? There has been no DNA link with ancient hominids and the current version of homo-sapien.
Dogmatic stances on both sides have polarized the arguments, while the truth lies somewhere in-between.
Bob,
One of the biggest issues is the veracity of the Scriptures. If they are true, they must be true in their entirety. If they are false in any aspect, they must be rejected as a whole.
The Scriptures tell us that the world was created by God, and that death and destruction did not come upon the world until sin entered the world. Biblical scholars are in agreement that the animals even got along with mankind because there was nothing really to fear. Mankind was not given meat to eat until after the flood when God allowed this to take place.
In regards to trial and error, why would you or any sane, rational individual want to place their faith in somebody or something that couldn’t get it right the first time? How many times we would have to wonder did God get it “right” through “trial and error” before settling on the atonement sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.
And why is it finally (for now anyway) that the age of the earth continues to increase exponentially when scientists realize the futility of trying to prove a world that exists came into that existence by trial and error?
The 5 billion number just a few decades ago was only 1 billion which was an increase from a few decades prior when the age of the earth was considered to only be hundreds of millions.
Trusting in the Creator Who got it RIGHT the first time and said “IT IS GOOD!”
The Desert Pastor
“One of the biggest issues is the veracity of the Scriptures. If they are true, they must be true in their entirety. If they are false in any aspect, they must be rejected as a whole”
Why do you suppose it is necessary to believe this? Is this statement biblical, or religious dogma? I hope it is not true because there are many obvious problems in the Bible, not the least of which are scientific.
As far as the age of the earth, I believe it was in the mid 1950s that the earth was first estimated to be 4.55 billion years old in a published work by C.C. Patterson. The accepted age of the earth has not changed in over 50 years.
It was the advent of radiometric dating of meteorites that was the breakthrough that brought Patterson to this conclusion. More interestingly, these dates have been verified by more recent helioseismic dating of the sun.
Guys, I’ve stated that I’m not a Christian, but I guess you could say that I’m kind of “on the fence” as I’ve been going to a local church and really like it… but this is the kind of thing that makes me unsure if I want to call myself a “Christian”.
Respectfully,
Karl
Karl,
While there is no requirement for Christians to believe in a young earth, that is what the Bible clearly teaches. I’m very comfortable saying that if evolution is true, we can throw the Bible out. There is a ton of evidence for a young earth. Here’s a good article to check out: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/2006/0303.asp
While I would hope that you would become a born again Christian, we are commanded to count the cost of that decision. You don’t become a Christian by praying a prayer, but by giving up your life (Luke 14:25-34), giving up every dime you have, giving up all of you dreams and goals. Compared to your love for Jesus, your love for your family must seem like hatred. If your eye causes you to sin, you have to be willing to pluck it out because you hate your sin so much (Matt 5:27-30). If someone walks up to you tomorrow and tells you to reject Jesus or be tortured to death, you have to be willing to be tortured to death.
Christianity is a reasonable and logical faith. No one wants you to check your brain at the door. However, if the Bible is God’s word, and it says the universe is 6000 years old, it would be a good idea to believe it. God isn’t deceptive. He doesn’t tell us one thing in the Bible and another thing through science. There is a huge difference between 6000 years and 5 billion years. Either the Bible is garbage, or the evolutionists are making fools of themselves for their hatred of God.
Thanks,
Bill
Karl,
In a sense, what Desert Pastor said about the veracity of the Bible is actually biblical. It is said at least twice in the scriptures (2nd Timothy 3:16, and 2nd Peter 1:19-21) that the words of the Bible comes from God Himself. So, if the words come from God, and God cannot lie (Titus 1:2, and Hebrews 6:18), then, working that backwards, in order for God to be true, His word would have to be true. If His word contains anything that is not true, then He Himself cannot be trusted to be true.
This is why every false religion on the planet attacks the word of God. It is the first lie Satan ever told: “Hath God indeed said?” (Genesis 3:1). Ask a Mormon is the Bible is true, and they will quote their 8th “Article of Faith”, and say that it is correct “as far as it is correctly translated.” Ask a Jehovah’s Witness, and they will tell you that no one but the Watchtower Corporation has translated it correctly (which is why they have published their own mistranslation). Ask a Muslim if the Bible is true, and they will tell you that the Jews have corrupted it. And so on and so on.
Following this chain, what is the purpose of teaching Darwinism? To make it seem as if the Bible is not correct. And look at what has happened. Now, even many groups that meet in a building on Sunday mornings are trying to squeeze Darwinism into the Bible, and cast doubt on God’s word. Basically, they are asking their people, “Hath God indeed said?”
To echo what Bill said, Either the Bible is garbage, or the evolutionists are making fools of themselves for their hatred of God. I would go with the latter. For even the apostle Paul, writing nearly 2000 years ago, said “Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” To the world, the cross is foolishness. To those who are saved, it is the power of God unto salvation.
Desert, you say you must accept the scriptures as stated, this is true. The history of the earth as stated in the scriptures does not include what was going on upon this planet until the 42,000 yr. creation account.
Jesus stated that he became a master worker after he was first-born of all creation. What he did during that period of time is not laid out on a table for your inspection. You must seek it as fine gold.
Your preconception of what your faith needs to be to sustain you, has blinded you to what the scriptures say. You have created Wormwood as your sustinence.
JC also stated that he reflects the qualities of his father precisely. So as we learn about him, his love for us, and what he went through to create us, we would learn to appreciate the father.
True believers were teaching their children that the world was round in 3500 B.C.E. when the rest of the known world thought it was flat. An idea perpetrated by the accepted religions of their day.
When religionists become dogmatic in their beliefs, while ignoring the very scriptures they say they follow. The opportunity arises for the sceptics to dismiss the scriptures based on the faulty knowledge of the religious leaders.
A true student of the scriptures would of asked “Where does Jesus say that he became a master worker”.
The estimate of the Earth’s age is not set in stone. New estimates put it between 4.5 and 5.2 billion years depending on whose opinion you wish to embrace. I rounded off to 5 billion since I don’t like typing the period when I do numbers. But then again your argument is to denigrate rather than enlighten.
The apostle Paul wrote that we should be searching the scriptures daily in order that we be made firmer in our faith. Making adustments as they are needed. Becoming dogmatic in their beliefs destroyed the Judeans, spurred the reformation during the middle ages, and causes many today to be led away from true knowledge, being forced to accept almost truths, on the assumption that a ‘true’ believer must do as expected.
Paul warned of such behavior when he stated that some were saying that ‘I belong to Paul and others I to Apollos’.
Your definition of ‘trial and error’ must be limited in scope. As each geological era began, the evidence shows that there was an explosion of life forms. These life forms no longer exist. They did not fit into the grand scheme of things. They were observed and those that fit the program were kept.
Just as today ‘Many are called but few are chosen’ The majority of mankind will not inherit the earth, but will be destroyed with everlasting fire. Does that qualify as a trial and error approach? None of the Neanderthals made it did they?
Bob,
You said, “A true student of the scriptures would of asked “Where does Jesus say that he became a master worker”.”
Maybe because you make up so much stuff, Desert Pastor assumed you made that verse up as well. I say a true student of the scriptures provides references.
The Bible doesn’t say indicate anywhere anything about 42,000 years. You’re completely making it up, because you’re trying desperately to fit evolution into the Bible.
Thanks,
Bill
This has got to be a gag, right? I mean, who deliberately chooses to worship a failure ridden god? I mean, let’s be honest here; bob barnhart’s god as he’s described it is a pathetic failure of cosmic proportions!
I’m not sure which emotion I would feel most strongly about such a god as bob’s god; The god of trial and error “because I just couldn’t get it right the first few tries”.
Fear? After all, what’s to stop bob’s god from changing its mind again and pressing the “reset” button once more? bob’s god: “In it there are shadows of turning”!
Loathing? I’m sorry but I can’t respect and reverence a failure ridden god that needs to play multiple mulligans with its creation attempts; just let me play through please…FORE!
Contempt? This is probably the best I could muster up for bob’s god of cosmic failure after cosmic failure…I mean seriously, if bob’s god can’t get creation right then what are the odds that it’s smart enough to know or accurate enough to do anything about me personally?
It’s a close contest for me, maybe too close to call. Anyway I’m sure glad my God, the One True and Living God of the Holy Bible, is utterly perfect in power, knowledge, and wisdom because my God does everything that He does with absolute precision, perfection and sovereignty the very first time according to His unchanging and unchangeable will, unlike poor bob’s “mulligan god” who sounds more like a bad joke than anything else.
What a disgusting idol to choose to worship! Even the pagans are self respecting enough to choose gods that aren’t complete failures!
bob I’d strongly suggest dropping your “mulligan god” for the One True and Living God of the Holy Bible.
In Christ,
CD
Ha, a point we somewhat agree on – Sadly, Neanderthals didn’t make it! But that is only part of the story, because the reality is that there were NEVER ANY Neanderthals to begin with. You have been duped, my friend.
However, I find it amazing that God the Creator has a sense of humour. Neander-thal is from two German words “Neander” and “Thal” which means valley.
Joaquin Neander was a godly man who used to spend much time in prayer and studying his Bible while fellowshiping with the God that many who have come to this blog willfully choose to reject for their own version. He spent so much time in one particular valley, the local people renamed it after Neander in his memory.
This Joaquin Neander wrote a song entitled, “Praise to the Lord, the King of Creation!” It is a beautiful hymn that extols the truth of God’s creation exactly as recorded in Scripture.
A few hundred years later, somebody dug up a handful of old bones in that same valley. Choosing to believe a “god” of their own making ignored the Almighty Sovereign of the Universe and the Biblical account of creation, some idiot (oops, I mean very worldly wise scientist) proclaimed to the world that these handful of bones were part of the missing link.
“They were definitely hominids, but a different subspecies.” Yet, no actual proof has ever truly been forthcoming any more than there was for “Lucy” which proved to be a manufactured claim using bones from a pig!
The God of heaven sits on the throne and laughs in derision at the stupidity of those who think they can break the bands of the Creator asunder! — Psalm 2
Neander must be shaking his head in amazement at how stupid the world has become in the last 400 years to think they can ignore God and pick and choose what parts of the Bible they wish to believe.
Giving Praise to the King of Heaven,
The Desert Pastor
So, Bob, just where does Jesus say He “became a master worker after He became the firstborn of all creation?” In fact, where did you come up with anything in that nonsensical ramble?
See, when you’re trying to make a point, you need to be concise, and you need something to back up what you are saying. For example: I believe in a young earth. Why? Because God’s word says, “On the first DAY (Hebrew: yom, meaning a literal day)…on the second DAY (Hebrew: yom, meaning a literal day)…On the third DAY (Hebrew: yom, meaning a literal day)…” Notice that? DAYS If God had wanted to say these things happened over a period of billions and billions of years, I think He’s intelligent enough to have come up with the words, dontcha think?
See, that’s what you do. You state your point, then you back it up. You have done neither. So, where do you get your ideas from? What is the basis?
science-
The investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the KNOWLEDGE produced by such investigation.
Bob’s god is knowledge and thats why he does not believe “thus saith the Lord” unless “thus saith man” can be stuffed and contorted into it.
Neither creation or evolution can be scientifically proven because science is limited by man’s ability to observe, experiment and theorize. Science has become the worship of man’s knowledge and another form of humanism.
What it comes down to is faith. Is God’s Word true? Is God bigger than man or is he simply a crutch that we rely on, a figment of our imagination? Either God is the great I AM or he is nothing. You can’t have it both ways.
Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise they became fools
1 Corinthians 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God For it is written, “He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS”; and again, “THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS.”
You cannot hide your light under a basket. Fifty years of research with comtemporaries, and I forgot that many professed christians, fall into the category of Heb 5:11,12 but 2Cor 4:1-6 must prevail.
Creative day longer than one literal earth day. ie In my grandfather’s day they invented the radio and the steam engine. Paul in speaking at Heb 4:1-10 states that we are still in the sabbath, which was 4,000 yrs. and counting at the time of his writing. Each previous creative day was premised with the evening and morning references, but not the sabbath which we are still in.
Also look into A Religious Encyclopaedia (vol 1, p-613) Edited by P.Schaff circa 1894 (Notice this information was researched over 100 years ago. Who kept it from you?)
Reference that God’s time frame is not limited to our definition of time Ps 90:2,4 2Pe 3:8 Which prophecy stated that the Christ would be cut off at the mid-week? or do I do all the work so you can dismiss it with ridicule? Do the math. The 1000 year reign of JC culminates at the end of the Sabbath. So that all would be just as it was purposed. Rev 21:1-4, Gen 2:3, ie. Creative day is how long? Six creative days would be how long?
Master Worker reference Prov 8:30 but since these basic teachings need further exploration by the experts start with 8:1-30
First born of creation–Rev 3:14,Col 1:15,16 John 3:16 refers to the only begotten son, and we’re back to the master worker reference Prov 8:30,that all things came into existence through JC.
Simple truths bear witness to themselves only the pontificators wish to pontificate. Those that place themselves in a teachers role bear the greatest responsibility. Jas 3:1 but those that hinder the truth bear greater jugement 1 Thess 2:16, 3 John 9,10
I’m not looking to prove anything to anyone, I’m searching for the last of the anointed ones to be sealed. Rev 20:4-6 The rest are just chaff at the threshing. Mat 3:12. Each will find a teacher to have taught what they want to hear. 2 Tim 4:1-5 The truth bears witness to the heart that is not veiled. 2 Cor 4:3,4
Hi bob,
Can you tell me how you – personally – as a depraved, wicked, unworthy, wholly corrupted, worthless and wretched sinner were reconciled unto the absolutely holy, just, righteous, good, wise, omnipotent, omniscient infinite Creator and Judge of the universe?
In Christ,
CD
Bob,
I hope you’ll answer Coram Deo’s question, but I also wanted to ask if you believe Jesus is eternal (always has existed and always will), and whether you believe in the Trinity.
Your line of reasoning is based on so many assumptions. If one of them is wrong, the whole thing goes off the tracks. If creation took 6 days, I don’t know how God could make it any clearer. The only thing that causes people to doubt it is that scientists are desperate to show otherwise.
Thanks,
Bob,
Why do you think God told us that “the evening and the morning were the first yom…the evening and the morning were the second yom…the evening and the morning were the third yom…” Why does it say that these days consisted of “evening[s] and morning[s]“? There’s a really easy answer: Because these were literal days. Why does it say that God created man “from the dust of the ground?” Why does it not say that God created monkeys from the dust of the ground, and eventually they became men?
As far as Hebrews 4—the writer is paralleling the seventh-day Sabbath with the eternal rest we have in Christ. This rest did not come about until Jesus came. It did not happen 4000 years ago. It happened 2000 years ago.
Proverbs 8:30—refers to wisdom, not Christ. And it does not say wisdom became a master worker, it says wisdom “was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.” As one brought up with Him–not that wisdom was one “brought up with Him.” The wisdom of God was ALWAYS with Him. If it wasn’t, where did He get it from? Who has counseled the LORD?” (Isaiah 40:13)
Which prophecy stated that the Christ would be cut off at the mid-week?
It says in Daniel 9:25 that Messiah will be cut off at the end of the 62nd 7-year period after Daniel wrote. It doesn’t say anything about Him being cut off “mid-week.”
or do I do all the work so you can dismiss it with ridicule?
I’m not ridiculing. But if you are going to make claims, you need to back them up. Like your reference from Schaff. You want to reference Schaff, fine. But let us know where to find it so we can look it up ourselves. Isn’t that what you told us to do? And if you do state something, and you’re wrong, be prepared to be called on it.
Do the math. The 1000 year reign of JC culminates at the end of the Sabbath.
No, the 1000 year reign of Christ will begin at the end of the 7-year Tribulation.
Ec 10:12-14,Ps 119:110,Jer 5:26,Mat 24:9,Luke 6:22,23
Bob, I’ve said all I will to you on this matter. Since you like to use Scripture to express how you feel in talking to us, I’ll reciprocate. These passages express what it’s like trying to convey the truth to you:
Proverbs 17:10; Proverbs 23:9; Proverbs 26:4-5; 2nd Timothy 4:1-5
Now you finally get it. Paul says to “reason with the scriptures” personal attacks lead to persecution and execution, all in the name of the lord. “and they will come to persecute you, thinking they are doing a godly devotion.” When did you find the lord, how did you find the lord? What if I were the Ethiopian traveling on the road? or the Samaritan woman at the well? Perhaps I was just a fisherman, or a dispised tax collector. or maybe I was a persecutor of the faith before I found salvation. Pre-judged people never have the right answer. Which of these peoople would find favor in your eyes?
For those interested it was the summer of ’75′ San Diego CA. I was conducting scriptural debates, inviting the leaders of the various religious sects to my home for scriptural discussions,every Friday and Saturday evening. 1174 attended over the course of two years. Frustration set in as each had a part of the truth as their central theme, but had too many ritualistic and unscriptural practises that had set in. Obscuring the basics. God is not a god of confusion.
Finally after a night of prayer, in which I asked where was the little flock following the cramped and narrow road, and not the broad and spacious one. A smallish Mexican man approached me and asked if I was the seeker he was sent to teach. He had traveled from Mexico City to San Diego, stating that the spirit had guided him, and proceeded to check my involvement of study.
We spent the next six months in study,24/7, as I absorbed everything he had to offer. Questioning everything that wasn’t part of the mainline christian teachings. Cross referencing all 57 translations of the scriptures(at that time), as well as the copies of the dead sea scrolls that had just been permitted for public display. Using the available Greek and Aramaic scholars in the area. After I was satisfied, I asked to be baptised, and have been searching for others of the little flock. It has now been 33 years. If none are at this site I will try another.Shaking the dust from my sandals. For the spirit says someone is near.
So tell me, what stripes have you born for the Lord? My credentials aren’t as harsh as Paul’s, but I bear the scars of my attackers, having had 5 attempts on my life, endless harassment, and several beatings. As well as the belittling and riducule I receive from the gnats that buzz about the spiritual food given from the Christ.
If none are at this site I will try another.Shaking the dust from my sandals.
Nope, I guess there’s no one of that “little flock” here. Guess you better start shaking that dust.
Bob, I am sorry for those who would hurt any one whom does not agree with them. There is one God. He is LOVE. He does not cause our discords. They are the result of breaking with His laws. The disruptions we feel are like breaking with the principles of math and music. We cannot work out our problems unless we follow the rules. God created all within His perfect laws. Deo; Life is eternal and so is God’s creation. There is no beginning and no end to His creation. He gave His children, (all of us) free will so we can know His love. Genesis is a way for the writer to express the sequence of creation. : There was light and the dark comprehended it not.” Light is all the beauty of creation as the expression of the Glory of God. Darkness is the absence of light and is void. The Adam man is the record of man
living outside of God’s Divinity, therefore, breaking with divine law. It was how finite beliefs came into our experience and our behaviours from those beliefs. Our journey will take us back to the glory of God, where is no sin, darkness, lack, nor death unless we choose to stay in the dark. God had to send one who was blameless to show us the way out of our darkness or we would self-destruct. Jesus took on the sins of the world, in order to show us the way of salvation. You do not have to believe this. “He opened not His mouth.” (Bible) He had no reason to argue with sin, for He knew life eternal and had no fear. I listen to the great preachers that know what they are talking about. I discard what I know, is not quite right, but I learn much from them. No one can explain God completely for He is larger then the universe. It is within His knowledge all exist, and there is no where else. I hope you do your own search in a passion for the truth. A closed mind cannot find spiritual wisdom nor enjoy the fruits of a sinless life. Helen M Nanney