I pray God will bring you to an understanding of this, and other misunderstandings you’ve been taught by the Roman Catholic Church Caroline. May He be gracious to you.

In Christ,
lyn

The bible also says Jesus is a door, a vine, the cornerstone. Do you think he is a real door or real vine or rock?

Caroline. Jesus IS our manna from heaven, but that doesn’t mean He comes as a baked good flying down from the sky. He is a door, yet not made of wood. The vine, without leaves, the cornerstone, not made of granite.

You said:
–But the bible does say that unless you eat and drink of the flesh and blood of the Son of Man, you will not have life within you, and you will not live forever.
My comment:
What about the thief on the cross. He did not eat physical flesh, yet due to his faith, was promised paradise.This contradicts your interpretation of John 6.
Eating and drinking Him, is coming to Him and believing in Him.
He is not talking about a sort of cannibalism. We feed on the Word. The scriptures.

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:4

Notice how the word is a sort of food we are nourished from to LIVE.

You said:
You are right, my good works, my rosaries, and my church attendance will not get me to Heaven, but they’ll help all right.

My reply:
NO THEY WONT. You can not ADD to Christ’s perfect atonement Caroline. This is wear surrender comes in. You need to get to a place where you realize that there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO. NOTHING. TO SAVE YOURSELF. NOT ONE ROSARY, GOOD WORK OR CHURCH ATTENDANCE WILL SAVE YOU. When you realize you are completely helpless before a holy God and that all your works are filthy rags, You then cry out to Jesus to save you. Him alone. Not Mary, a priest, the RCC, the Saints. Only Him.
Isaiah 64:6

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
(end of scripture)
It is then you will have joy unspeakable and a free heart. You can not be free in Christ when you are bound to church attendance. and adding to His finished work, because it will NEVER BE ENOUGH. There will always be something more you must DO to be saved.
As of now, you are reliant on priests to be forgiven of your sins.You need mediators to get to Jesus when there is only one. One high priest that is your ADVOCATE before the Father. Yet Rome says Mary is your advocate. No no no. The veil was torn, Caroline, we can enter into a relationship with the Father because of Jesus. We don’t need priests anymore, that is why Jesus is the one High priest and only priest. You don’t need Mary.
You only need to surrender to Him alone.
In my prayers with love,
Sue

Sue,
John 6: 48-58
” I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” ”
–But the bible does say that unless you eat and drink of the flesh and blood of the Son of Man, you will not have life within you, and you will not live forever.

This is what St. Justin Martyr had to say about the Eucharist in his writings in “First Apology”
“And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. ”

I don’t know if you read any more of the posts prior to the discussion we have gotten into, but a woman, Brianna, posted. These are a few of her blog posts that tell what Catholicism says on the Eucharist (I am posting these not just for you, but for others who read this as well.)
http://ourladyslamp.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-just-bread-and-wine-part-1_05.html
http://ourladyslamp.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-bread-and-wine-part-2-jesus_6232.html
http://ourladyslamp.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-bread-and-wine-part-3-pauls_05.html
http://ourladyslamp.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-bread-and-wine-part-4_05.html
http://ourladyslamp.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-bread-and-wine-part-5_05.html
(I urge you, please read these. They are really great posts that use scripture to help gain a better understanding of the Eucharist.) (oh, she also addressed the issue that you mentioned of the one time sacrifice being done over and over. I think it’s in part 2.)

Here is a link to the index of the Catechism, it is on the letter E, scroll down the page for the links to the paragraphs about the Eucharist. I was going to post them, but then I saw how many there were, and I couldn’t decide which ones to choose.
http://old.usccb.org/catechism/text/e.shtml

You are right Sue, His blood is enough to forgive my sins. He does forgive me my sins, when I receive the sacrament of reconciliation. I am forgiven of my sins. However, I still have the stain of sin on my soul, and I still have concupiscence (the tendency to sin). So it is in purgatory that I am purified of this. I would not want to enter Heaven with that stain on my soul. I would rather be purified of it, and then enter into Heaven. All of those in purgatory will gain salvation. They will go to Heaven. You are right, my good works, my rosaries, and my church attendance will not get me to Heaven, but they’ll help all right. It is through my FAITH, my belief in God, and through my good works, my prayer life, and my church attendance (and reception of the Eucharist, and the other sacraments) that I will get into Heaven. This is how I choose to spend my days, I believe that I will receive eternal salvation because of these things, and because of what Christ sacrificed for me over 2000 years ago. I do need Him, I need my faith in Him, because without it I am nothing. My faith is what defines me. I am a Catholic.
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God; begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father, by whom all things were made.Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Thank you all for your time, and for helping me answer my questions. I hope that maybe I have helped you answer some of your own, maybe ones you didn’t even know you had.
I think that this will be my last post, though if you wish to discuss it further, I can be reached at CarolineAAdams@gmail.com (notice the two A’s there.)
Thank you so much for your firm and strong faith.
Peace and Blessings to you all. You are in my prayers.

I am an ex-Catholic and have full knowledge what the RCC teaches. I sat in Scott Hahn’s class in Franciscan University.
RCC dogma contradicts the scriptures. The bible does not enforce cannibalism that says in order to have life you need to eat a piece of flesh.It says all that believe on Him are saved.

The bible explains you must FIRST have FAITH and then be baptized. It does not erase ‘original sin’. False infant baptism produces false believers. Circumcision was a sign, a cut in the flesh. We are to be cut in the heart by believing in Him and trusting in His finished work on the cross. Jesus Himself said “it is finished” He SITS at the right hand to show it is FINISHED. But the RCC says it’s not finished and falsely offers the one time sacrifice over and over.

Caroline, His blood is enough to cover you. You say you hope to make heaven some day. The RCC steals joy from Catholics by telling them they must pay for their sins in the contrived Purgatory.How is this Good News? Wasn’t His blood enough to forgive ALL your sins? You can’t pay for them yourself. He did it all. That is the joy and amazing grace of the gospel. The great exchange.The RCC says all that believe they are saved by faith alone are anathema. Your good works, church attendance and rosaries will not get you to heaven. No one will be able to boast in heaven. Believing and trusting in Him Alone recognizing your complete need for a Savior is what saves.
Sue

You ask “So, does God decide that some are not saved?” Go through your bible and see all the times ‘elect’ and ‘chosen’ are mentioned. Here are some examples, from 2 Thessalonians 2:13, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth”…Ephesians 1:4, “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love”…1 Peter 2:4, “To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious”.

If you understood the doctrine of radical depravity, which the bible teaches…that all of mankind is evil, wicked, dead in sin {Ephesians 2:1, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins” – “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved;” Ephesians 2:5} and unable to do anything to contribute or bring about their salvation, you would understand that God chooses a people for Himself that He saves. These verses answer your question “But isn’t it our choice in the end?” No it isn’t, dead sinners cannot respond to the Gospel apart from grace. No one comes to Christ unless the Father draws them {read John 6:44}. We are dead in sin and unable to choose anything but our sin; do dead people rise from the grave? Spiritually dead sinners are no more able to respond apart from God’s grace than a corpse is able to rise from the grave. God saves, by grace, He regenerates, or rebirths the sinner. He renews the mind and heart {read Ezekiel 36:26-27 and notice the ‘I’s in the verse, that will tell you who does it all…God}.

My prayer is that you will, by God’s grace, come to an understanding of His word. We cannot even read and comprehend the word of God apart from His granting us understanding {this is verified in Luke 24:45}.

Another thing, which I ask you to clarify– in your last paragraph– could you clarify what you mean when you say “if you understood that salvation is all of the Lord, you would understand God does not change His mind about those He saves…”
God wants us all to be saved. But isn’t it our choice in the end? We should live good and pure lives according to His word and do good works, but does everyone do that? So, does God decide that some are not saved?
And I sin, I try not to with all of my heart, but I still do. And I have been told that I have a wonderful faith life, and I do believe that one day eventually I will go to Heaven. But even though I know about sin, and I know that I have the chance at salvation (and one day hope to obtain it) I still sin. So does that mean that I do not belong to Christ?

I will write more later when I have thought about what you have said and read everything you suggested to me.

I also think that the next post I make will be the last. However, if you would like to continue with our discussion. I can give you my email address.

Then you said ‘It is also because baptism rids us of our original sin—it forgives us that sin and gives us grace, through this grace we can obtain perfection. ‘ – Oh my, why did Christ go to the cross if all we needed was a good dunking? Grace comes from God through Christ, not through baptism. You cannot see the error of what you’ve been taught, you think you must do something to rid yourself of sin and obtain grace and perfection, you are in error. That is why you must read God’s word, verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 tell you exactly how you are saved. These verses have been posted repeatedly, but instead of reading them and asking God for understanding, you continue to respond with man made teachings. If you cannot back what you believe solely with the word of God, you are deceived and deluded because what you believe cannot be verified by God’s word.

You quoted Hebrews 10:26-27 out of context; the verses you mentioned speak of apostates, not true born again believers. Here is commentary from Matthew Henry…
” From the description he gives of the sin of apostasy. It is sinning wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, sinning wilfully against that truth of which we have had convincing evidence. This text has been the occasion of great distress to some gracious souls; they have been ready to conclude that every wilful sin, after conviction and against knowledge, is the unpardonable sin: but this has been their infirmity and error. The sin here mentioned is a total and final apostasy, when men with a full and fixed will and resolution despise and reject Christ, the only Saviour, – despise and resist the Spirit, the only sanctifier, – and despise and renounce the gospel, the only way of salvation, and the words of eternal life; and all this after they have known, owned, and professed, the Christian religion, and continue to do so obstinately and maliciously. This is the great transgression: it seems to refer to the law concerning presumptuous sinners, Num_15:30, Num_15:31. They were to be cut off.”

From Philippians 1:6, “For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.” God does not start something then not finish it. If you understood that salvation is all of the Lord, you would understand God does not change His mind about those He saves, He will bring His redeemed people into His kingdom; His people do not continue in willful sin {Read the book of 1 John}, and those who do claim to be saved yet sin repeatedly prove they do not belong to Christ and have not been born again.

p.s. A few other verses that I would like to point out to you about priests/the priesthood/Levites are Hebrews 7:6-28 and Hebrews 9: 11-12.

Are you aware there were no priests in the New Testament? None of the apostles were priest. To be a priest, you needed to be born a Levite. There was no laying on of hands to be a priest. There was only the priesthood of ALL believers, but not a ritual Christian priesthood. Even now, the Jewish priesthood is diminished because there is no temple for sacrifices.
Infant baptism is a farce. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Lady Gaga and Madonna were all baptized Catholics. Baptism is symbolic of dying with Christ (being emerged in the water) and rising with Christ in Resurrection (coming out of the water). You are first saved by believing in Jesus, and then baptized.
Sins are forgiven by believing on the finished work of Christ, not by eating ‘jesus’ in bread. Jesus, in His one incarnation is sitting at the right hand of the Father. There is only ONE incarnation, but the RCC says He is also in millions of hosts, which would then mean there are millions of incarnations.
My heart goes out to you dear Caroline, because you are so focused on the church and on Mary. Mary and the church can not save you. Only Jesus can. The RCC puts you on a maze to get to Jesus by telling you to go to Mary, Saints, Mass, holy days, and on and on. The Gospel is simple and powerful. Accept Him alone, without all these “extras” that are not needed. When you have have Jesus you do NOT NEED Mary, Saints and everything else. His Word feeds you and you are satisfied. He fills your thirst and hunger. Mary will never do that. Mary is not omnipotent and she can not hear you. Read the bible and ask the Holy Spirit to open your eyes to the truth of the Gospel.

You also make a point with the Eucharist. In the moment that we accept the Eucharist into our body, we become a tabernacle for our Lord. The very moment it touches our tongue, we are forgiven of our venial sins. The Catholic Church teaches that if one has mortal sin on his(or her) soul, that they should not receive the Eucharist until they have gone to confession. Also, there is the baptism where we are forgiven of our original sin.
You do make a point however. I think that I will consult a priest or religious about the matter.

Though, Steven did not bear forth the Son of God. –my thinking on that. :] Though I promise you that I will find the answers I am looking for. (and in doing so, I believe I will be asking some hard questions.)

Lyn,
My confusion/questioning continues, because these people ARE healed miraculously. If Mary were not to be praised/venerated/adored would these people who have gone to this shrine still have been healed?
ah–I went back and re-read what you wrote. You somewhat addressed this.
But the Catholic Church is centered around Christ.
Have you ever been to a Mass? Even just to observe what we do?
It is so beautiful, because it is completely Christ-centered. We ask Mary and the angels and the saints to pray for us in it, but it is Christ centered, because the Mass is heaven on Earth. The Eucharist (as Sue says) is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we kneel down before Him as the priest offers His sacrifice. (the priest during this time is inpersona Christe (in the person of Christ) –which is why the Catholic church just made changes to the translations of the Roman Missal. Instead of replying “and also with you.” to the priest we say “and with your spirit” because we are recognizing that Christ’s spirit is in the priest during the entirety of Mass, and especially during the Eucharistic prayers. Did you know that once the priest starts the Eucharistic prayers he cannot leave the church/alter until he has finished saying them? (I learned this just this past September). Even if there is a fire, tornado, etc. the priest cannot leave until he has finished.
My faith is so beautiful, and completely Christ-centered. Yes, we have Mary, and we have the Saints and the angels, but that is like 1/1000 of what our faith consists of.
I cannot begin to tell you about the beauty of the faith that I have grown up with.
And I’m only just starting too. I have so much more to learn.

During this past Sunday at mass, I was listening to the Gospel being read, and it was the story of the healing of the paralytic in Mark, where they lower the paralytic from the roof because they cannot reach Jesus because of the crowd. People question Christ after He forgives the man of his sins. They say that only God has the power to forgive sins and they say he blasphemes. Jesus then says that it would be just as easy to say to the man to rise up and take up his mat and walk home. He commands the man to do so. And at that moment I thought about how any man could question that Christ was not the Son of God, because he healed that man and forgave him of his sins. If only God has the power to do that, then Christ MUST be God/the Son of God/true God and true Man. How could anyone ever not believe in that?

I’m sorry, I have gone on much longer than I had wished to in the first place. I fear that I’m leaving you with even more questions to answer.

From the article – ‘Father Hoang said Tuesday even followers of other faiths have come to pray in front of the big white Marian statue, which stands on a hillside overlooking the sea.
Many of them who have been cured of serious diseases or ailments, return to the Church or convert to Catholicism, he added.’

The Bible says there is ONE Lord, ONE faith, etc. {Ephesians 4:5}. The claim of being ‘cured’ is eerie, for Satan has power to do signs and wonders {2 Thess. 2:9}. And what is the end result of being ‘healed’? Do they praise God? NO!!! Silly rabbit, they convert to Catholicism! It’s all centered around the Catholic church, not Jesus Christ or God’s grace. This is a dead religion that uses just enough Scripture to mix with its poisonous teachings to seem legit to those who reject truth and love tradition, rituals and works {the Bible calls this a delusion}. The Lord’s return is drawing ever so close, all that is transpiring around us clearly points to His soon return.

Shalom.

You pray Hail Mary, but you also pray:
Hail Holy Queen
Mother of Mercy,
OUR LIFE, OUR SWEETNESS, OUR HOPE…

(Btw, this is a prayer TO MARY) You said you don’t pray TO her, but you do. This Hail Holy Queen prayer is said with every rosary, and I know because I prayed it for 38 years.The fact you believe she hears you, means she shares in God’s attributes as being omnipresent and omnipotent. Mary is a created being, she does not have God’s attributes.
About the Haily Holy Queen prayer..
Only Jesus is your life, sweetness and hope. Not Mary. The only Queen of Heaven in Scripture, is a goddess. Because the Israelites prayed to this entity, they were destroyed for their disobedience of praying to anyone but Him:

New International Version (©1984)
The women added, “When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes like her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?” (Jeremiah 44:19)

New International Version (©1984)
Because you have burned incense and have sinned against the LORD and have not obeyed him or followed his law or his decrees or his stipulations, this disaster has come upon you, as you now see.” (Jeremiah 44:23)

The interesting thing is, the worshipers complained because when they prayed to the queen of heaven, everything went well and their prayers were answered. The demon answered them to keep them from the Lord and to ultimately destroy them.

Mary was blessed among women, but not above women.

When you say that Jesus needed to be in a pure vessel, you make no sense even according to your own religion. You who believe that Jesus is present body, blood, soul and divinity in communion, take ‘him’ into your own sinful body. Is He then not in an impure vessel? You? Jesus also comes to live inside of us as believers, and still we sin, but He continues to live in us.
Mary was full of grace, filled with the Holy Spirit, as was Stephen. Scripture also says that Stephen was full of grace:

Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.(Acts 6:8)
Please do not listen to the false demons and entities at Fatima and Lourdes, but instead adhere to the Word that will never lead you astray.
In Him.
Sue

Forgive me for coming back to it, but I wanted to leave some of my thoughts.

One of the prayers that we pray (asking Mary’s intercession) is the Hail Mary.
Its words are “Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.” — I know that the former sentence comes from scripture, and so that must mean that is it true.
She is full of grace, as she bore Grace Himself in her womb.
Elizabeth calls her blessed among women at the visitation when John the baptist leaps in her womb in the presence of the Savior of the world growing in Mary’s womb.
Another thing that I have been pondering is the question of if what you say is true, then Mary was a sinner–Why would God have His only begotten Son, the Savior of the world, come into this world through an impure vessel? It doesn’t make sense to me. Purity is something that I know every man and woman should strive for. We are all born with the stain of sin. But Mary, as I have been taught, was not, because God meant for her to be a pure vessel (the new ark) for the new covenant in Jesus. Why would God have His Son, true Man and true God, come into this world through a broken sinner. For me, it somehow tarnishes the perfection of Christ. And I know that this is not true, because Christ is the epitome of perfection.

Lyn, another thing that I have been thinking about, is the use of correct wording. Even for synonyms, there is a difference in the definitions of all words. And then there is a creation of a dialect in which words can have a different meaning than it does for those outside of this dialect.
I would like to point out a couple points where I think that this has happened.
1. Above you state that Mary would never ever want anyone to worship or exalt her. This is true, Mary would NEVER want anyone to worship her over her Son. She loves her Son. I would like to point out again that true Catholics (well-informed, living lives according to the doctrines/teachings of the church) would NEVER worship Mary in place of Christ, or exalt her to the same status of Christ.
2. As far as the co-redemptrix status goes, I believe it is well-meant, but I find a flaw with it. It raises Mary to the status of being, in a way, equal to Christ. I think that should this title ever be used with Mary, it should be used cautiously and explained in a way where Mary’s suffering at the foot of the cross can be used for our example, that we will have sufferings in life, and will find sorrow in life, and should find it in the sufferings of our Lord on the cross, and have Mary as an example of that, but it should not mean that she has equal power as Christ to redeem/save our souls, by herself.
3. Concerning dialects, or perhaps another good word to use would be slang. I would like to address the idea that Catholics pray to Mary. I assure you, we do not pray to her. I think that the term has become interchangeable with asking for her intercession, and it gets confusing to people who do not understand that key point of Catholocism. I know that I have used it myself, but I do not mean that I pray directly to Mary, but rather, I am asking her for her intercession, to pray for me on my behalf, so that I can come to know Christ more fully. Just as I would ask my friends, family, you, Leah, Brianna, or any of these people to pray for me (as I think I may have already, but I know that Leah has.) Does this make sense?

Perhaps one of you could help me with my questions, and please do comment on my thoughts regarding the use of wording and dialect/slang.

I do not wish to beat a dead horse, I do not think I am with this comment, but am rather asking for clarification on some terms, and clarifying other terms for you.
Thank you.

http://www.fifthmariandogma.com/

I believe it will happen in due time. When it does, we can watch end-times realities to pick up speed. The RCC wants to unite all religions through Mary, especially Islam.

If anyone wants to shudder and have a peek into the future, listen to some of these radio shows. Please witness the truth of the Gospel to Catholics.

http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/Mother_of_All_Peoples_Radio/MOAP_Radio_Archives/

When religious organizations stray from the truth of God’s word, the end result will be apostasy. This is exactly why the Lord Jesus warned His disciples in Matthew 24:4, “”See to it that no one misleads you.” I strongly encourage all who follow a religion rather than Christ alone to compare what they have been taught with God’s word…if you cannot find their teachings in God’s word, then you have been misled.

Jim: So your devotion is to an organization, mary, and may things

“I love my Faith, and will not leave it. ”

Jim: That is because you do not love Jesus

“by loving my Heavenly Mother, ”

The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.
Is it I whom they provoke? declares the LORD. Is it not themselves, to their own shame? Jeremiah 7:18-19

“Our beliefs will not be changed. I pray God will bless all who’ve participated in this discussion, and bring to our hearts His Sacred Truth.”

Do not give up hope yet. God can change the most wicked, vile religious heart by His grace, including yours.

——————————–

“It is hard for a man to let go a hope of heaven on which he hath once allowed himself to lay hold, and which he hath retained for a considerable time. True conversion is a rare thing. But that men should be brought off from a false hope of conversion – after they are once settled and established in it and have continued in it for some time – is much more rare.” -Jonathon Edwards

Yours is a fools hope that you would do well cast into the wind. The God of the Bible has vowed that you will perish in hell except you repent. May the fear of God drive you far from your idolatry that you might find rest in a true, saving knowledge of Christ before that day.

Lyn

“These Roman Catholic watchdogs that have recently come out to defend their heretical doctrine of Mary worship have, in fact, proven it.”

We are currently cresting the second wave of a Romanist flash mob on this blog. We have had more Roman Catholics swarm onto this blog in the last month promoting their religion than I’ve experienced in the past four years combined. If it wasn’t for the moderation filter, the comment threads would have been completely hijacked.

There is an obvious campaign targeted toward this blog. I was able to locate one comment thread on a Romanist blog asking people to come comment here, but I don’t believe that’s the one that has garnered most of the Romanist visitors.

BRIANNA:
As you continue your attack on the Word of God (you claim the Bible says nothing about abortion? Really? Have you not read “Thous shalt not murder” from Exodus 20:13 and that God “hates” the “abomination” of “hands that shed innocent blood” from Proverbs 6:16-17?) your arguments are beginning to border on absurd in your desperate attempts to defend the indefensible.

Your Mickey Mouse avatar argument is a straw man because this debate is not about the idolization of Mickey Mouse. No one is debating the bowing down to nor the praying to Mickey Mouse to somehow bring them closer to Christ. Nor is anyone claiming Mickey Mouse is a co-redeemer, co-mediator, was immaculately conceived, never sinned, was assumed into heaven, intercedes for sinners, and is now called the “Rodent of Heaven.”

Caroline’s position, however (as well as yours), is that Mary is indeed ALL of these things and much, much more (except the “Rodent of Heaven,” Mary’s supposedly the “Queen of Heaven”).

Quite frankly I do not have the time to argue this matter with someone who subtly rejects the very Word of God (unless quoting it is to your advantage). If you fully or partially reject that God’s Word is true and the standard measure of truth by which we live our lives and the church is governed, then continuing to banter with you on this is a waste of your time and mine. (I trust that you’re busy in your life too.)

Furthermore, it is apparent that no matter what truth is presented to you, you will reject it in favor of the traditions of men, and, like the Pharisees of Jesus’ time who rejected the truth of God for their traditions, only a supernatural act of God opening your heart (like Lydia in Acts 16:14) to receive teaching, and your mind (like the disciples in Luke 24:45) to understand the scriptures, and to give you understanding that you may know Him (1 John 5:20), will make any difference. Until then, wheels will simply spin in the mud.

CAROLINE:
The size of one’s religious organization is a very, very bad barometer of whether or not one is in the true faith. Jesus told us that narrow is the road that leads to life and FEW find it, whereas the broad path to destruction is very well traveled by the multitudes (Matthew 7:13-14). And if you know your biblical history, it’s always been the minority that followed God and it has always been the minority that God has used.

During the flood, how many people got on the ark in contrast to how many people were drowned? How many of all the Israelites that were brought out of Egypt actually entered the promised land? How many men did God use to fight with Gideon? How many prophets did God use to confront Ahab and Jezebel and challenge their false pagan priests? How many disciples did Jesus choose out of all of the land of Israel? What happened every time Jesus’ followers grew too large (He typically gave them a hard teaching that drove the masses away). How many men did God use to begin the Church?

You get the idea. If numbers were an indicator of truth, Islam would be truth, Mormonism would be truth, Hinduism would be truth, etc. Again, you get the idea.

Please understand, I do not dislike you or Brianna or any other Roman Catholic for that matter. (I have Romanist family members.) If I did dislike Roman Catholics, then I would not be wasting my time here. I have so many other things I should and need to be doing rather than typing words on a screen to people who are (it appears) not listening. But it is the fact that I am compelled to share the truth with you (e.g. the imminent danger of your idolatry and the amazing grace of the Lord Jesus Christ) which is why I have taken the time to correspond.

My heart breaks for the path I see you on, and nothing Lyn said about that path was incorrect (although you may be offended by the Word of God she was presenting to you). Do not look at us as your enemies for telling you the hard truth (Galatians 4:16). Do not take it as an offense.

We would be just as bold in telling you to get out of a burning house. If we didn’t care, we would remain silent. And that, my dear Caroline, is the ultimate hate for an enemy: not warning them of their impending doom, but keeping them sleeping in a burning house, or blissfully skipping along the path where the bridge ahead is out, or drinking from the glass that contains poison, or continuing in their idolization of Mary which makes them an enemy of the very God they think they’re serving.

Please take our pleas from God’s Word as a warning from God Himself (which is what the Bible is . . . His words to mankind). He is a God who wants Caroline’s complete love and devotion; not a love and devotion shared between you and one (or more) of the millions of mere human beings that He has used throughout the history of mankind. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, strength, soul, and mind. You cannot do that if your devotion is divided between Him and a deceased human being whether it be Mary, Moses, Abraham, David, Peter, or Paul.

Give Him a pure and single minded love and devotion. Anything less is idolatry, and as I showed you earlier, God has declared that idolaters will NOT find themselves in heaven, but will be cast into the lake of fire (1 Cor. 6:9-11 and Rev. 21:8).

I beg you, I beseech you, turn from your divided devotion and turn directly to the Lord Jesus Christ. If you do that, and in the end we were wrong, you will have lost nothing, and you can then venerate Mary throughout all eternity. However, (and that’s a big however), if we were right, your continued idolatry will have condemn you for all eternity. I sincerely do not want to see that.

In love,
- Pilgrim

” I am aware of protestant pastors who are just as wicked, but I do not claim to belong to an ‘ultimate’ denomination. I belong to Christ’s church, which has Christ as the head. This is why I make no allegiance to any denomination.”

Amen Lyn.

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/2012/02/11/vatican-besieged-by-reports-of-money-laundering-plot-to-kill-the-pope/

http://sueliz1.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/catholic-baby-trafficking-ring-in-spain-busted/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/07/27/the-vatican-s-gay-priests.html

The Bible commands leaders of churches to deal with sin, not cover it up or make huge payouts. However, when the leaders themselves are corrupt, what happens then?

So dear sisters, we have a picture of Jesus as He is in ministry, fully man, and fully God. He was born sinless and he lived sinless, and He died sinless, and He rose sinless! This is why He is our living sacrefice!
Now, re-visit above and you will see that His mother and family came to get Him! Why? Because they believed the Son of God born to the blessed virgin Mary whom you believe was born sinless, and I do not argue that point here. But I do point out to you that the Mary you worship, actually sinned here in her unbelief of her Son functioning as God, for she believed He was out of His mind! Thus here you have proof positive, that she was not sinless as is her Son, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Thus she is due no worship at all for she too as all men have fallen short of the Glory of God. Though she is blessed above all (sinful) women by the fruit of her womb Jesus. Thus while she should be well thought of, she is but a bit player in the Passion of Christ Jesus. Now I would direct you to one last reading of the Word of God, which you will find here:
Preeminence of Christ Colossians 1:9-18
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood,[c] the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

You see I too was raised Catholic and learned the traditions of men. Till our Lord opened my eyes to His Truth!

The worship of Mary the mother of Jesus Christ can be traced back to each of the major periods of church history. The Catholic Church is notorious in its promoting and praising of Mary. Murder and scandal were mingled together to form a poisonous concoction of worshipping her over the early, medieval and modern church periods and continues to this day. Mary began as something simple and men who professed themselves to be wise began to twist the truth slowly.

Writings during the early Church period fueled Mary-worship with the claims of her sinlessness, power and perpetual virginity. In 431 A.D., the Council of Ephesus gave Mary the title, “mother of God.” This claim was not saying that she was just the earthly mother of Jesus Christ, who was the Son of God, while at the same time was God in the flesh, which in their eyes would make Mary the literal mother of God.

Fifth and sixth century worship of Mary can be linked directly to city of Ephesus. The Vatican calls Mary the “Mother of the Church” and credits her for making Jesus who he was. She is considered the “second Eve” in the same manner that Scripture calls Jesus the second Adam.

Another modern false view promoted is that since Mary shared her Son’s suffering on the cross, some Catholic theologians see her as fulfilling the Old Testament priestly role in offering sacrifice. This gives her more power and prestige in the eyes of the ones who want to see her in that praiseworthy light.

read the rest here – http://www.godondeathrow.com/subpage3.html

You keep insisting “I would like to emphasize again that Catholics do not, and will not ever worship Mary if they are being true to their faith, and we will not EVER raise her to a status equal to Christ.” Yet, your own church history and writings prove you either are a liar or are deceived.
This is from http://www.whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk/mary.htm

The Catholic Church constructs a parallel of Mary to Christ Jesus. It teaches that just as Christ was sinless, so was Mary. Just as grace comes from Christ, so Mary is the mother of grace. Just as the Lord saves His people from their sins, so Mary is the cause of salvation. The Bible clearly states that there is only one mediator for mankind; amazingly the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that Mary is a mediator. Just as Jesus Christ was taken up into heaven and is King of Kings, they teach that Mary has been taken up to heaven body and soul and is Queen of heaven. The Catholic Church goes even as far as stating that Mary was immaculately conceived just as the Lord Jesus was. In this section you will see clearly how the Catechism devises this parallel strategy and how the Bible clearly refutes it and reserves the roles of Jesus Christ for Himself alone.
All that has been documented in the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding Mary is utterly contradictory to the Holy Scriptures and the exclusive Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Putting your trust in Mary for your salvation is a most dangerous and damning barrier to eternal salvation. Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith alone for the salvation that He alone gives by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and based on His death and resurrection. Believe on Him alone, “to the praise of the glory of his grace” (Ephesians 1:6).

I have also included a link with videos from former Catholics in hopes you ladies will view some of these men’s messages….http://whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/helpforcatholics/Watch/The_Difference.html

J.C. Ryle:

“My dearly beloved, flee from idolatry!” 1 Corinthians 10:14

Romanism is a gigantic system of sacrament-worship, Mary-worship, saint-worship, image-worship, relic-worship, and priest-worship! In one word, Romanism is a huge organized idolatry!

I know how painful these things sound to many ears. To me it is no pleasure to dwell on the shortcomings of any who profess and call themselves Christians. I can say truly that I have said what I have said with pain and sorrow.

I believe that many a poor Catholic at this day is worshiping with an idolatrous worship, simply because he knows no better. He has no Bible to instruct him. He has no faithful minister to teach him. I remember all this; and I say that the Catholic eminently deserves our sympathy and compassion.

But all this must not prevent my saying that the Church of Rome is an idolatrous Church. I would not be faithful if I said less.

My own conscience would rebuke me if I did not warn men plainly that the Church of Rome is an idolatrous Church, and that if they will join her, they are “joining themselves to idols!”

That heart can hardly be right with God, which can think of the millions who are sunk in heathenism, or honor the false prophet Mahomet, or daily offer up prayers to the Virgin Mary — and not cry, “O my God, what shall the end of these things be? How long, O Lord, how long?”

Christ rightly known, Christ truly believed, and Christ heartily loved — is the true preservative against ritualism, Romanism and every form of idolatry! (Online source:http://www.gracegems.org/2012/01/idolatry.html)