31 thoughts on “A Calvinist and Arminian examination of John 6:37-44.

  1. Tanya says:

    When debating Armenians it does seem that their arguments are solely rhetoric. Many of them are just repeating what they’ve been taught from childhood and come to every verse they read with that bias. If they would set aside their bias and truly study the scriptures they would come to a crossroads and have to decide to blindly follow what they’ve been taught or actually believe that the scriptures say something else entirely.

    I’m no bible scholar but I could clearly see that John is speaking about the same “him”. Armenians would have to say that it was translated wrong to prove their point because even in the English a pronoun refers to a noun that you’ve been discussing in the previous sentence(s) not a third party that is implied. If that was the case then we could never be sure what any pronoun is referring to. If I said “The boy is tall. He is also very strong, and he can lift heavy objects.” (third grade grammar)Who would the “he” be referring to? Could the second he be his brother? Wouldn’t make a lick of sense!

  2. LumpyMeatLoaf says:

    Greetings Tanya,

    You are absolutely correct; their argument is rhetoric, at best. The trouble with numerous Arminians, a high number don’t actually believe what they actually believe in…..This is due to the fact that the average run-of-the-mill fun loving majority of Arminians dangerously lack scriptural knowledge. I am no expert but most of the average Arminian pew warmers don’t have comic book savvy, or at least the one’s I have had the blessing to meet. I have asked Arminians questions and I have later shown them that a high number don’t actually believe in Arminianism, or as much as they believe!

    Four groups of questions I ask Arminians (questions I have memorized):

    1.Do you believe that Adam and Eve sinned to the point whereas they were totally depraved? Basically, I am asking you did Adam and Eve have the right to approach a Holy Father, whereas scripture Ephesians 2:1 says, “Once you were under God’s curse, doomed forever for your sins”, and Romans 5:10, “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life”. Reply: Most will say yes they were depraved. {totally depraved}
    2.Do you believe since you were dead to sin and the enemy of God, that you need Lord Jesus to conciliate yourself to the Father? Do you believe that you are drawn to Lord Jesus by the power of the Holy Ghost, as the Father willed (John 6:31-71)? Do you believe that the Father and Lord Jesus decide before the foundations of creation that Lord Jesus would die for and having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will(Ephesisans1:4-23)? Reply: Most will say yes. {unconditional election and irresistible grace}
    3.Do you believe that Lord Jesus was truthful when he said, “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine (John 17:9)? Do you believe Jesus when he said, ““I have already told you, and you don’t believe me,” Jesus replied. “The proof is in the miracles I do in the name of my Father. But you don’t believe me because you are not part of my flock. My sheep recognize my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one shall snatch them away from me (John 10:25-28)? Reply: most will say yes.{limited atonement}
    4.Do you believe that we are sealed by the Holy Ghost unto salvation and were marked as belonging to Christ by the Holy Spirit, who long ago had been promised (Ephesians 1:13)? Do you believe that you were given eternal life and Jesus and the Father are one, whereas nobody will be able to be snatched from him (John 10:28-29)? Reply: Most will say yes. {perseverance of the saints}

    After I finished, I have informed them that this is Reformed scriptural belief. Not trying to convince them that they are Calvinistic, but to perhaps use this as a tool to show them where they stand; food for thought. Tanya you are right they follow each other blindly.

    Jesus is Lord

  3. augustonfire says:

    I’m new to theology and really don’t have much of a clue as to Arminian, Calvinist, etc. but can you TRY to explain to me the concept of God choosing who will follow Him, and yet we choose to follow Him?

    Also, why would Jesus bother with people who He knows won’t believe? Save me from the ignorant mental image I have of Jesus just going into town to rub it in their faces.

    I have limited knowledge of election.

  4. “Invitation***truth” is actually an invitation to read lies born of the evil one. Such links and blatant searching for followers will NOT be tolerated on this board and has thus been deleted.

    The truth of God’s Word is what stands fast and will do so for all eternity.

    Continuing to stand against heresy!
    The Desert Pastor

  5. How does this passage apply unto the Arminian/Calvinism debate??? For it truly is as it is written: It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

  6. LumpyMeatLoaf says:

    Greetings Augustonfire,

    I would like to share something with you. I came from the Arminian ranks, which I will touch on lightly. Not all people are blessed with Reform Baptist, Reform Presbyterian or URC churches, within their area. Therefore, some start out in Freewill (Arminian) churches, perhaps as children. Over the years, while studying the Bible, I was being convicted that the message being taught was false. I would ask questions concerning Freewill invitational theology, condition election and how could people lose their salvation…I knew at this point that I was under a different gospel; the same that was outlined in 2 Corinthians 11:3-10. I created the biblical questions above to ask some Freewill followers, mainly friends and acquaintances, to determine if they actually are Freewill minded or perhaps like myself, which they might also understand the truth concerning the Sovereignty of God; not for recruiting purposes but to reach out to the confused like we should do…..

    You ask what is an Arminian? An Arminian is any person regardless of race, creed, color, sex, denomination or religious preference that believes in unbiblical Freewill theology!

    Examples of false Arminian beliefs:

    1. Adam and Eve were not really depraved, so they could have approached the Father without a mediator. Yes, they sinned but they weren’t that bad!!!!{Slightly depraved) Then who needs Jesus, and the Father’s will, with Freewill?
    2. Jesus is the atonement for our sins, but he needs our help! He sits on the sideline anxiously rubbing his hands together; just hoping that one will select him as Lord and Savior. If one acts first then Jesus’ then can become savior. {Conditional election} Then who needs Jesus with Freewill?
    3. Lord Jesus died so every individual is saved, but only by their own Freewill can they decide their own destiny…. {Unlimited atonement} If one falls into damnable heresy they Freewilled it….Then who needs Jesus, having Freewill?
    4. Yes, true the Holy Spirit is part of the trinity Godhead, but he can be ignored and I can do what I want! He has no power over me and my destiny as the Father wills…. {Resistible grace}
    5. Yes, once I select Jesus, which makes him Lord, I must keep up the good works to maintain my salvation….. I must sing, dance, play a harmonica, or perhaps jump over pews to maintain the justification and perfection so I will remain saved? Face it Jesus is Lord but he needs my help….{conditional salvation}

    Reformer True belief as defined by scripture:

    1 Man is and was born totally depraved.
    2. Only through a sovereign God are we saved, not by works only by unconditional election.
    3. Not all Jews born to Abraham are God’s children, just like not all people are destined to heaven. Jesus said. “I know my sheep”, which have limited atonement… Before their birth of the twins, scripture predicates that God loved Jacob and hated Esau; this is limited atonement.
    4. According to scripture, Jesus declares by the Father’s will you have been sent to me, unto salvation. This is irresistible grace.
    5. Once one is truly saved. One can not lose what they never earned to start with. Salvation is maintained by God, known as preservation of the saints. I asked numerous Arminians to show me in the Bible any story, or scripture of any godly person that has lost their salvation…. Perhaps St Peter, Perhaps Jonah, Perhaps King David?

    One theology emulates a false Christ. The other is the true Christ. One is weak and helpless. He bows before the sovereign “free will” of man. The other is the reigning Lord Who wills what He pleases and sovereignly accomplishes all that He wills. http://WWW.Sinners and Saints theology with an edge offers free audio lessons concerning TULIP.

    Jesus is Lord

  7. Augustonfire- Election is the Biblical concept of salvation that says we cannot choose God, God chooses us. Those chosen are the elect. The Arminian concept of salvation is that God holds out His hand to everyone and all who reach up and grab it get saved (provided they don’t let go, or else repent every time they do let go and so re-grab his hand). The Calvinist position is one-handed salvation: God reaches out His hand to those He wants to, and GRABS them, and they are saved for eternity. Saul/Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus is probably the most obvious example of this in the Bible. Not only does God grab them and save them, but because he is all-powerful and all sovereign as God, we cannot and will not resist his saving grace. When God grabs you, you will be knocked off your horse, the scales will fall from your eyes, and you will accept Christ, you will be given a new heart full of love and repentence towards the Lord. When someone says they accepted Jesus, or chose to follow Him, what has actually happened is that God grabbed them, the spirit regenerated their hearts and they were pulled from the tomb of sin to resurrection in Him. We would never choose him because we are spiritually dead in sin. So, unless the Lord calls us like he did Lazarus from the tomb, we remain in the tomb of sin because dead people cannot resurrect themselves. Only Christ can resurrect the dead, only Christ can call a spiritually dead sinner to new life in Him. It is a heavy concept of salvation, because it reveals a disheartening conclusion- namely that some people simply will not be saved. But the fact is, There is no injustice with God, and God is all-powerful. Other spiritual concepts of salvation do not make room for these two facts. If we could “choose” God and any time and decided not to, then God must be disappointed and frustrated by man. Thismakes man more powerful than God. We know this is not true. No one can frustrate God’s plans. To believe we can, is to believe in a small god, and not the one of scripture.

  8. I find my self in a middle place between the two theologys (in some aspects). I don’t beleive that one can lose his salvation, but I do beleive that God has given an offer, based on his perfect creation we have a free will, and must use that free will to accept his offer.

    Within your comment “mattyb” you said
    “It is a heavy concept of salvation, because it reveals a disheartening conclusion- namely that some people simply will not be saved. But the fact is, There is no injustice with God, and God is all-powerful. Other spiritual concepts of salvation do not make room for these two facts.”

    Implying that God wills from some to be lost, but woulden’t a beleif like such contridict God’s own word?

    Mathew 18:14 (KJV)
    Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

    Isn’t this vrs stating that God wills that NONE of the little should perish? Isn’t God over all the people. I assume you will refer somthing to the lambs being God’s elect in this particular context, but then why did the elect go astray in the first place(causing the lord to leave the flock in order to find one, but this is just a rabbit trail from my point)?

    And what about John 3:15 (KJV) stating :
    That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    Isn’t that implying a free will “Choice”? WHOSOEVER beleives, or accepts God’s freely given grace?

  9. northpointcc says:

    Forgive me for being an Arminian. I honestly believe most of the debate is meaningless. I believe in total depravity. Man is totally lost without Christ. I have deep fellowship with Calvinists and Arminians and we both understand that “by their fruit you will know them.” I’m less concerned about this debate than I am about reaching the millions who do not know Christ. As an aside, I don’t know that I have ever read a Christian blog that expressed so much disdain for another member of the body of Christ. I grieve that we spend so much energy on these debates and so little in touching lives in the name of Christ.

  10. Ministry Addict says:

    I like what Spurgeon said on this subject.

    He was convinced that the Bible taught both divine election and human responsibility. Therefore, he preached both. Once, when asked how he reconciled Divine sovereignty and human responsibility, he responded: “I do not try to reconcile friends.”

  11. LumpyMeatLoaf says:

    Greetings to all,

    How could someone believe in total depravity without the other points? If one believes in total depravity, then one is dead to sins! Then surely one has to believe that they are saved only through the will of God {unconditional election}? Also, as far as Limited Atonement goes, if Lord Jesus died for all to be saved, then why aren’t they? Why are some so-called Christians told, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” So if one agrees that they are totally depraved then surely one has to agree only by the Father’s will (Holy Spirit) changes and therefore one’s eyes and heart will be changed so one can cry out to Jesus; read the entire chapters of John 6 and 10….. If man is totally depraved then man is dead to sin, and therefore they are not able to be the self-mediator to salvation, so what makes puny man believe that he has the authority to throw away salvation like a child wheeling a toy?

    Spurgeon was just another man with some great opinions and great mistakes. I would put my money on the Bible and the Sovereignty on God every time.

    Hebrew 6-4, the scripture which states, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Read the passage real close, I believe that these people were only flirting with God and never truly were saved, and if they were saved then tell me how they walked away; by their Freewill? Come on, your church has many sitting in the pews doing the same religious thing hoping that they have completed the prerequisites to qualify for Fire Insurance and aren’t regenerated flirting with disaster…….

    Someone brought up John 3:15. Why don’t we try to read the entire chapter? First you have to understand who Lord Jesus was talking to, in the entire 3rd chapter. Jesus was talking to Nicodemus who was a Pharisees. As a Pharisees, Nicodemus knew scripture and knew what it said about the coming of a Messiah. Lord Jesus was simple explaining to this Pharisees that God loved the entire World he would die for them. So one has to understand the world (cosmos) was a reference to the Gentiles. Jesus told Nicodemus that yes, God loved the gentiles that he died for them too! The word world didn’t reference to residence in Mexico, Canada, the United States and others countries because they didn’t exist.

    Also, I have noticed that some believe that this debate is a waste of time. Then some sound perplexed that God’s children could and should use their time doing more productive things… I am perplexed; just curious, why are you here?

    Jesus is Lord

  12. LumpyMeatLoaf says:

    Hey Desert Pastor,

    I would be more than happy for you to address the next wave. I could use the break.lol

  13. Ministry Addict says:

    “Spurgeon was just another man with some great opinions and great mistakes. I would put my money on the Bible and the Sovereignty on God every time.”

    Agreed. In the sense of his being just another man and making great mistakes, he had that in common with all of us.

    His point was that you do not have to deny human responsibility to believe in God’s sovereignty. They are both taught in the Bible. The fact is: God’s sovereignty must be accepted by faith, because, like the Trinity, it cannot be fully explained or understood by finite minds. Our minds are finite. God’s is infinite.

    A good example is the people mentioned who are “flirting with disaster.” Does it please God to see them flirting with disaster? Of course not! Does that mean they are beyond God’s sovereign power and control? Of course not! How can these be reconciled? They don’t need to be reconciled. They are both taught in the Bible, and God cannot lie or contradict Himself.

  14. LumpyMeatLoaf says:

    Absolutely, I agree that man can choose within the sovereign life in which God has provided for us. One can choose between choices of Coke or Pepsi. One can choose to sin or not to sin, or perhaps to or not to brush your teeth. However, when coming to being drawn to salvation to Jesus by the Father’s Will (the Holy Spirit), one can not one-day out of the blue without the power and grace of God decide to become regenerated, on their own. Scripture clear states that Jesus said by the Father’s will you have been drawn to me (John 6). Like it or not, each and every one of us was born as a rapacious perfidious reprobate; the enemy of God (Roman 5). I agree within limits that Spurgeon was correct. I bet you will never read anywhere whereas he believed man dictated terms of salvation to a Sovereign God, gained or lost? Look where Jonah’s freewill attitude got him when he tried to dictate policy to a Sovereign God concerning the work that was set forth in Nineveh! Jonah told God I am not going to Nineveh I am going to Tarsus…God said have a good trip!

    I disagree that you believe that those that are not regenerated don’t need reconciliation (resolution). I think they need pray and to cry out to God to open their eyes and their hearts, so God’s Will can be done within their lives, unless you know a different route? We all have to understand not every person is a child of God. Scripture clearly says, “This means that not all of Abraham’s children are children of God, but only those who believe the promise of salvation which he made to Abraham” (Romans 9:8).

    The explanation why sinners, the humanistic existentialist world and those with their own esoterically agenda wrongly views, balks and refuses to put stock into the Sovereignty of God is due to self-righteousness. This causes them to insist on a conditional salvation; giving them room to boast about being co-god. Men by their depraved nature do not really care whether or not God is glorified in salvation. They may desire salvation, and they may seek it diligently and continually in their own self-deluded way, but until their way is rejected and God’s sovereign way is received, there will be no salvation in dead-works. The main problem with false prophets, false disciples and the secular world is by their nature they think too highly of themselves and too little of God. The direction of the Gospel is to believe on to Lord Jesus Christ, and to repent from ever thinking that any part of salvation was conditioned on their behalf. The sovereignty of God is the message that false followers and the secular community by nature hate. This is the only message, if God is to be pleased, is by the power of God unto their salvation. This is the message that true love to God and a true concern for His glory will not compromise. This is the message that the world labels uncompassionate.

    Jesus is Lord

  15. Oh dear, how did I know David Knapp would commend northpointcc’s comment at the exclusion of all points made by all others on this thread?

    I thought you left to get ready for your trip to Germany. This blog is like chocolate; you just can’t stop even after it gets all over your hands.

    – The Pilgrim

    P.S. Btw, here’s what an insider has said about the “Social Gospel.”

  16. A Helmet says:

    “The giving preceds the existence of those so given???”

    Where does Mr. White get this information from?

    From John 6 ?

  17. This is just disgusting on a lot of levels. I have no problem with someone supporting Calvinism and disagreeing with Arminianism. However, first of all, spell it right. It’s Arminianism. Second of all, very, very few even have the slightest clue about what Arminianism actually believes or how the theological doctrine is put together. There are a TON of wild assumptions about Arminianism which are not true on here. Also, this video takes a solid Calvinist against an idiot Arminian. You could just as easily find an idiot Calvinist and a solid Arminian and make it look just as bad.

  18. blastedbylove says:

    I am leaning towards eternal security, which I sometimes get flak for from people in my church. I am the middle of a study of both sides and one of the things that has really pushed me over to believe that our salvation is secure is the mere definition of eternal life. Once one believes and receives eternal life, isn’t that just what it is, eternal? If something is eternal, can it ever end? If we choose to turn our backs on God and we lose our salvation, wouldn’t God be a liar by calling it eternal life when it was actually something that we could choose to end? As I understand it in the Bible, eternity doesn’t end.

    One thing that I have been stuck on with the Arminian argument is the point that the belief spoke about in verses such as John 3:16 is that the word belief is the continual state of belief. I am not sure of the tense or whatever of that word and whether it means belief unto salvation or living in a continual state of belief throughout your life. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

  19. Good point Ben.
    I would love to sit and talk with people like desert pastor and lumpy meatloaf because I can’t type that good. This is a huge topic worthy of proper discussion.
    Ienjoy reading the posts but too many points to address.

  20. Melissa says:

    I am responding to this statement by lumpymeatloaf, specifically the last sentence:

    Someone brought up John 3:15. Why don’t we try to read the entire chapter? First you have to understand who Lord Jesus was talking to, in the entire 3rd chapter. Jesus was talking to Nicodemus who was a Pharisees. As a Pharisees, Nicodemus knew scripture and knew what it said about the coming of a Messiah. Lord Jesus was simple explaining to this Pharisees that God loved the entire World he would die for them. So one has to understand the world (cosmos) was a reference to the Gentiles. Jesus told Nicodemus that yes, God loved the gentiles that he died for them too! The word world didn’t reference to residence in Mexico, Canada, the United States and others countries because they didn’t exist.

    The word “world” did not refer to residents in Mexico, etc, because they did not exist???????

    YES THEY DID!!!!

  21. Alex G says:

    Mathew 18:14 must be understood in context. When it says, “it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish,” who are the little ones? The 100 sheep of the parable that this verse in contained in. These would be believers, in accordance with statements akin to Jesus’ “I am the good shepherd” talk. All this parable says is that God will ensure the salvation of his elect.

  22. CBO says:

    Reading the posts on this blog is baffling. Some make some wild claims. One poster says if the Arminians would just read the Scriptures and not bring their bias they would basically believe Calvinism. What?????? Do you honestly think that Calvinists don’t bring bias to the Scriptures??? They read the Scriptures through Augustine’s glasses. I personally see Calvinists’ arguments lacking credibility as well. I have been studying Open Theology and every critique nearly I have read from a Calvinist misrepresents the OT position. They tend to set up a strawman and then attack it. I would urge you all on this blog to read F. LaGard Smith’s book “Troubling Questions for Calvinists”. I don’t agree with everything he writes, but he points out the gaping wholes in Calvinist thinking. Some of what I have read on Calvinism goes back to Augustine’s Greek philosophical roots. The God we read about in the Old Testament was not like the gods of Greek culture. Try reading the Bible WITHOUT reading Augustine and Calvin. It is quite refreshing to find that God did NOT predetermine like a blueprint everything that happens. He knows every possible thing that could happen, but he has given us incredible freedom to either reject Him or accept Him. Read the OT stories and see how the people there believed in a God who didn’t have predetermined plan, but interacted with his creation. You on this list are more entrenched in Greek philosophy they you are in the Scriptures. Take off the Calvin glasses and try reading the Bible as someone would in the first century.

  23. CBO~
    What do you make of this verse {regardless of what century it is read in} from Ephesians 2:1, ‘And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins’. There are others, like Jeremiah 17:9, but let’s focus on this particular passage for the moment. All sinners are dead in sin, according to God’s own word.
    The word ‘dead’ means {metaphorically} spiritually dead, destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins, inactive as respects doing right – from http://www.blueletterbible.org
    So, from this passage we understand that lost sinners are dead spiritually to the things of God. With that said, how is it we can bring ourselves to Him apart from Divine intervention? God must FIRST do a work before a lost sinner can see his/her true condition. He alone brings the sinner to repentance, and gives the gift of faith to receive Christ to those who repent.
    Notice from the passage who ‘quickens’…[hath HE quickened]…God Almighty is the Giver of spiritual life, through His Spirit – “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.” John 6:63
    I do not believe in total depravity because Calvin taught it, I believe in total depravity because the Word of God teaches it.
    Wicked sinners are commanded to repent and believe in the Gospel, but are totally unable to do so apart from His grace. Salvation is entirely by His grace, a gift from God given to whom He desires. Ephesians 2:8,9 is the clearest passage in all of the Bible on the ‘salvation process’… “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
    It is crystal clear, God is the Giver of spiritual life. When man says, ‘I chose Jesus’, he is adding his own ‘work’. This is not biblical, for all who do so rob God of glory.
    Jeremiah 17:9 is more proof of the dead heart, ‘The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?’
    The phrase ‘desperately wicked’ means – desperate, incurable, desperately wicked, woeful, very sick.
    It is plain that every heart is incurable, not able to rid itself of the disease it has…sin. This sin along with our sin nature is the very thing that keeps us from coming to Christ on our own power. The power and bondage of sin keeps sinful mankind from freely choosing Christ. The terminal illness of sin prevents such a choice.
    Again, this is what God’s word teaches. Because so many have labeled this a ‘Calvinist’ teaching, it has caused great division. The sinful pride of man will continue to drive him to lay claim to his salvation, in spite of the teachings found in God’s Word.

  24. Dear CBO:

    I must second Lyn’s sentiment:

    “I do not believe in total depravity [or any other doctrine often labeled a point of Calvinism] because Calvin taught it, I believe in total depravity [and any other doctrine often labeled a point of Calvinism] because the Word of God teaches it.”

    I came to where I am when I began reading my Bible, without the aid of any “Bible studies.” This includes without the aid of any Calvin-oriented studies or books.

    If you, CBO, announced that you believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ and produced Scripture to support your position, I would agree with you based on those Scriptures (as long as they were in the proper context and conveyed that very idea you were proposing of course). I would also proclaim (as you) that I believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ but I would still only call myself a Christian, not a CBO-inist.

    Even if I happen to agree with all 5 points of Calvinism, I will never consider myself a Calvinist, because I don’t derive my doctrine from him any more than I derive my doctrine from you or anyone else. I strive to be like the Bereans. This is why I still contend with one of the 5 points of Calvinism (I know I’ve now piqued some curiosity out there as to which one) because I don’t see it lining up with Scripture. Whether I ever come to believe that particular point or not, I’ll still remain a Christian not a Calvinist.

    As I’ve said before, if I must be labeled anything for identification purposes (since nowadays anything and everything passes for Christian as long as the label is attached, so clarification is always necessary) I’d consider myself a Biblicist.

    Sincerely,
    – The Pilgrim

  25. T.W. says:

    John Wesley prefaced his sermon “Free Grace” with these words:

    Nothing but the strongest conviction, not only that what is here advanced is “the truth as it is in Jesus,” but also that I am indispensably obliged to declare this truth to all the world, could have induced me openly to oppose the sentiments of those whom I esteem for their work’s sake: At whose feet may I be found in the day of the Lord Jesus!

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