May 15, 2008
The human cell.
Posted by The Pilgrim under Creation vs Evolution, Encouragement | Tags: Evolution, Atheism, Creation, Christianity, Religion |To faithfully hold to the notion that all this happened by chance reveals that you have more faith that God doesn’t exist than I have faith that He does.
Also see this related post.
May 16, 2008 at 12:37 am
If you think that evolution says that we’re here by chance then you lack a basic understanding of evolution.
Does natural SELECTION sound like a chance process to you?
May 16, 2008 at 8:34 am
It’s definately a ridiculous idea to think everything came about by chance, absolute and complete garbage.
Of course, the process of natural selection does not actuallt involve chance.
It is a common misconception it seems, which is a shame, and I’m afraid I’d have to agree with Jason in stating you lack a basic understanding of Evolution.
Please don’t misconstrue this an an insult. I’m not accusing you of being unintelligent, just that your idea of what Evolution is would seem to be very far from the reality.
Millions of people have been able to accept Evolution whilst continuing to believe in a God and I hope that you’ll be able to do the same.
Have a lovely day :)
May 16, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Lucy,in response to your second to last sentence, I am one of those in America who can’t.
Have a good weekend. ;)
May 16, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Evolution by natural selection is not chance.
Also, I am so sick of the blind watchmaker argument. Eukaryotic cells are incredibly complex, but they are stages that they could have easily evolved. There isn’t an answer for every step, but at least the answer scientists give you, with evolution, much more sense than “god did it”. Remember, people used to think “God” gave people babies, but now we know it is the combining of gametes from parents that lead to reproduction. The argument, “God has to have done it because its too complex” is a weak argument I’m afraid — and one day you’ll find that science has unturned every stone that “god” used to have high ground on.
May 17, 2008 at 12:48 am
Dear Lucy:
I was wondering when you’d surface over here; you’ve been a repeat customer over at Bill Phillip’s blog for quite a while now.
Welcome.
Thanks for your civil comment. I did not take your comment as an insult. I was rather impressed with your comment since so many (almost all) Atheists and those who hold to your view are very abrasive, condescending and coarse. They like to hurl insults like a WWII Howitzer (and I tend to simply ignore them).
I will concede that I am no “expert” in all the ways of evolution and its constant fluidity and need to change as new discoveries in science keep making evolution more and more improbable (or should I say impossible). I just wish more Atheists would admit that they’re not “experts” in theology either.
Don’t get hung up on the “chance” part. All I was saying is if there is no God and nothing from nowhere exploded and made everything, then you can see how the word “chance” has a more active and applicable role in evolution than the word “design,” “creation” or “Creator.”
And finally, when did majority opinion ever become the standard by which we measure truth? Millions may believe in evolution and God (but the demons also believe in God and at least they shudder in fear of Him - James 2:19). But millions also believe in God who have not bowed the knee to Darwin, of which I am one (and apparently Todd too), and I will not be budging from my position.
Respectfully,
- The Pilgrim
P.S. BTW, where did all of the Atheists come from all of a sudden?
May 17, 2008 at 6:54 am
Oh that I might be the lowliest, meanest, least of the cells that constitute the glorious body of Christ!
In the beginning GOD…
May 17, 2008 at 6:59 am
Scientists demure when confronted with questions they can’t answer and simply say; “We just haven’t figured that out, but we will.”; yet they are offended when Christians point out that we’ve already “figured it out” as it were, and that behind all science, all existence, all in all is the One True and Living God of Christian theism - the infinite Creator and Judge of the universe.
In Christ,
CD
May 17, 2008 at 10:05 am
Hi Pilgrim,
I certainly agree that truth is not a matter of the majority - if it were we’d all be converting to Hinduism - and I’m glad despite our differences we can talk.
A couple of things on Evolution I’d like to say: There is nothing in Evolution which invalidates the idea of a God. Furthermore, Evolution does not and has never been an attempt to explain the origin of life. It tells us nothing more about the origin of life than the Theory of Gravity, namely, nothing.
What Evolution explains is how life developed from very simple beginnings to the complexity of life we see today. Again, this development has nothing whatsoever to do with chance, (and if you’d like me to go into details on that in another post I’d be happy to).
I would take issue with you on your claim that the Theory of Evolution is becoming more improbable. Exactly the opposite is true. Thousands and thousands of pieces of evidence have been discovered and in every case they have fitted into place as predicted. I wonder if Creationists believe those astounding numbers are down to chance?
The thing which surprised me most in your post was your admission to not be an expert on Evolution, but then to say you will not budge from your position in rejecting it. If Evolution were an idea suggesting there is no God I could understand your position, but it isn’t, and I wonder why you’re so hostile to something you freely admit to not understanding completely.
I would be interested in knowing what it is about Evolution that you find hard to believe/dislike if you have the time to reply, and thanks for letting me post.
Lucy
May 17, 2008 at 10:08 am
Hi Coram Deo,
I wouldn’t say I’m personally offended when Christians say they have it all figured out - everyone should be free to believe in what they wish - but I think I would reject the idea because there isn’t any evidence to support it.
May 17, 2008 at 11:37 am
Hello Lucy Lowe,
Of course as an unbeliever no other option is available for you except to reject the objective truth of the Holy Bible - this is a simple “God 101″ fact.
Contrary to your false assertion the evidence for the One True and Living God of Christian theism is overwhelming; yet because of your a priori dismissal of the truth claims of His transcendent, verbally inspired self revelation as contained uniquely within the 66 books of the Holy Bible you say “there isn’t any evidence to support it.”.
Your claim is, of course, patently false, but as you almost correctly stated, people are “free to believe in what they wish”, even when they wish to deny the truth and believe a lie.
I use the qualifier almost because in reality unregenerate men and women are slaves to sin and their “free will”, so-called, is free only to choose evil over good and lies over the truth in every instance when it comes to ultimate spiritual realities and the Eternal Gospel of grace.
Unbelievers are in bondage to their sin and trespass without hope of escape apart from placing their trust in Jesus Christ and being saved by grace through faith in Him alone.
One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord forever - and believing in and confessing Him in this life certainly has its advantages!
In Christ,
CD
May 17, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Dear Lucy:
I am not an “expert” in evolution which I reject any more than you’re an “expert” in “Creationism” that you reject. One does not need to know every single thing about a subject in order to have formed an opinion based on the facts already present.
I don’t need to know everything about abortion to have formed an opinion on that. I don’t need to sit through the entire movie Texas Chainsaw Massacre to know that neither I or my kids will ever watch that. I don’t need to know every waking detail of Hitler’s life to reject Mein Kampf.
You see, not knowing every exact detail about something doesn’t mean you can’t have an opinion on it, and it still be valid. Otherwise no one anywhere in the world could ever have an opinion on anything.
I am certain there are many things about Creation that you don’t know or understand but yet you reject it. Yet I do not hold that against you because I am also fairly certain that no matter what you are shown you will still reject it.
I have looked at the “evidence” of the theory of evolution and the that of Creation. Creation cannot be “proven” as you would deem acceptable. And there’s no doubt that evolution cannot be “proven” for it is purely theory and it still has yet to be “proven.” It is still just a theory.
After watching my first child being born and coming to the understanding of the process of birth, it was confirmed within me that not only is there a God, but that we did not evolve. I look at nature and God’s handiwork and the proof is all there. The very stripes on a Zebra screams “design,” “creation,” “Creator.”
As I will not budge from my position, neither do I expect you. I will not attempt to change you on this matter and truly, I loathe the whole debate anyway. To me it’s like trying describe a rainbow to a man born blind whose argument is, “I can’t see it, touch it, feel it, smell it, taste it, so it must not exist.” Neither he will believe it and neither will I convince him of it. It is a rather large endeavor in futility. I imagine you will say the same thing about me. Both our positions require faith.
So if others want to carry on the discussion, so be it. I will check out the comments, and unfortunately have to moderate them because so many Atheists, Agnostics and Evolutionists cannot be civil (unlike yourself) and they feel they must resort to vitriolic, condescending attacks (eh, hm Rusty and TurboWeevel).
Thanks for stopping by again Lucy.
Sincerely,
- The Pilgrim
May 17, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Hi Pilgrim,
You seem to have misunderstood me. I wasn’t surprised that you rejected Evolution, only surprised that you stated you will not ever budge from this position. I agree that you don’t need to know every detail about a subject in order to have an opinion, but to not know every detail and then still vow that you will never change your opinion (as you did) does seem a little close-minded.
I have rejected the idea of there being a God but I’ve talked with religious people, (and read lots of blogs on WordPress!), and if I were to come across a sound reason/evidence of there being a God I would accept it. I don’t believe there’s a God, I certainly don’t know it for a fact!
Similarly, if evidence were produced to disprove Evolution, (rabbit fossils in the Pre-Cambrian is the famous example) I would instantly reject Evolution. Evolution is falsifiable, a lot of money and time have been spent trying to falsify it, but no proof against it has yet been found.
As to your reference to Evolution as “just a theory”, this is another common misconception. The Scientific definition of the term theory differs somewhat from it’s slang usage. A theory in Science is a coherent framework into which observable data fit. Gravity is also “just a theory”.
Again, although I am an atheist myself I’m not attacking your belief in a God. You see a zebra and believe it’s designed by a creator. I’m sure we could argue on that until the end of time and never convince the other of our opinion, (but hopefully stay civil and friendly throughout!), but Evolution is as proven a reality as Childbirth.
A long time ago people believed God placed a child inside a woman when she became pregnant. Now, thanks to Science, we know that the sperm fertilises the egg. Religious people accept this, but believe God to be responsible for creating the sperm and the egg in the first place. It’s exactly the same with Evolution - perhaps God set everything into motion - I don’t believe it but lots of people do.
Finally, in regards to your rainbow comments, I’m sorry if the idea of Evolution reduces the beauty and wonder of the World for you, but I really don’t think it ought to. I find the World even more profoundly beautiful and wondrous for the knowledge of how the things in it came to be.
Anyway, thanks for the discussion and have a gorgeous, fab day :)
Lucy